Losing My Faith in YHWH

[JimmieD]

In addition to my last, I should point out that belief in God is going to be a condition by which you interpret things. For example, if you discovered an Egyptian stele that recorded the Israelites running out of Egypt after a series of devastating plagues, you would probably also discover that the Egyptians attributed all of the events to their own gods (perhaps the sun god Ra got mad and so he boiled some cows one night). You see this in the flood accounts with every culture attributing the causal connections of the flood to their respective gods. While every culture attributes cause to their respective gods, the modern unbeliever/dispassionate observer would just attribute it to ice melting or a comet hitting. Why are there so different interpretations of the same stinkin’ event? It has to do with how the data we access is interpreted by us.

Your belief or un-belief in God is going to determine how your interpret things in the world; it has to do with who our Ultimate Authority is. If you are an atheist you might attribute the 10 plagues of the Exodus to mere myth or perhaps to freak accidents of nature. If you believe in the Egyptian sun god Ra, perhaps you would attibute it to his anger or his forgetfulness or something like that. If you believe in Yahweh, you will attribute it to His rescue. We all interpret data and arrive at knowledge according to assumptions we make about the world, and in fact there are assumptions we must make in order to be able to come to knowledge and interpret data at all. One of my assumption is that Yahweh is God and nobody else.

Science and historical investigation are great and I have a good time studying them; they can lead to knowledge and allow us to correctly interpret many things; they can support our interpretations of things or cause us to rethink things. However, they are not the sole source of knowledge nor the only means by which we can interpret data and come to know things. Placing science and/or history into the position as our chief sources of knowledge in effect puts them on God’s throne and elevates them to godlike status. Your belief in, or un-belief in the God of Israel is going to be a determining factor as to how you see the world.

Besides making sure that we don’t put science or modern historical methods on God’s throne, we should also make sure we are practicing good hermeneutics when approaching the sacred scripture. We should not anachronistically impose all of our 21st century modern methods onto the ancient writers. For example, perhaps Moses isn’t interested in giving a journalists or scholar’s account of the flood? Maybe he’s up to something besides a dispassionate recounting of events like we would see in a boring college lecture? Maybe the purpose of the flood story in the bible isn’t to just merely tell us what happened? Mayeb it has something more to do with how we are to understand God and His purposes?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Appearently, nothing in Egyptology. As someone pointed out earlier, it could be possible that Pharroh destroyed any record of it’s happenings because it wouldn’t look good on a deity’s record. I suppose the best evidence we have is in the Bible itself. I once watched a documentory about how the Exodus could be understood the same way through Egyptian military tactics. Also, they found houses similar to typical ancient Hebrew-styled houses east of Egypt where the Bible claims Joseph gave to his family. I’ve also heard they found charriot wheels and axels similar to Egypt’s charriot wheels and axels incorralated at the bottom of the Red Sea (south) out of Egypt (like the Bible says.) There’s a sort of curve-in where you could see the one side of the Red Sea from the other. Also, the golden calf in the Bible is a god known to be worshipped by the Egyptians and Cannonites.

The death of all the firstborn would have been hard to ignore, or wipe out or blot away. I really find that to be the hardest thing to believe.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Herodotus wrote The Histories (about 450 BCE), at the same time exodus was written. But he never mentions, nor does the bible ever mention Pyramids. He also never mentions Jewish slaves.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

The death of all the firstborn would have been hard to ignore, or wipe out or blot away. I really find that to be the hardest thing to believe.

We know for a fact that the Jewish temple was utterly razed to the ground around 70AD. Yet the Bible doesn’t specifically mention the fact. It is implied, but that is about all.

And this is despite the fact that the apostles were all Jews. Now does this indicate the fact that all the NT documents were written before the fact, or was there a political reason for not mentioning it? (Personally I think they were all written before the fact. If not, this would be tantamount to Americans not even mentioning the complete destruction of Washington and the subjugation of their people were similar circumstances to arise in that country. Not a word. I find that hard to believe. And these men were Jews, bred and born).

So when it comes to negative history, most nations are peculiarly reluctant to point out their own shortcomings. It’s a continual complaint that the Japanese school system doesn’t say much about Japanese cruelties during World War II for example.

And I think the same thing would apply to the ancient Eqyptians. The Israelites themselves weren’t going to leave much trace. They lived in tents during the early part of the Exodus, were not in the court in Egypt, and their earliest constructions in Canaan would have been rudimentary.

 

[momor]

Herodotus wrote The Histories (about 450 BCE), at the same time exodus was written. But he never mentions, nor does the bible ever mention Pyramids. He also never mentions Jewish slaves.

Herodotus does in fact mention the pyramids in Book II of his History. There is much about Egypt that he does not write about so the omission of Hebrew slaves from his account does not prove anything. The Exodus occurred about 1000 yrs before he went to Egypt.

 

[StrawberryJam]

We know for a fact that the Jewish temple was utterly razed to the ground around 70AD. Yet the Bible doesn’t specifically mention the fact. It is implied, but that is about all.

And this is despite the fact that the apostles were all Jews. Now does this indicate the fact that all the NT documents were written before the fact, or was there a political reason for not mentioning it? (Personally I think they were all written before the fact. If not, this would be tantamount to Americans not even mentioning the complete destruction of Washington and the subjugation of their people were similar circumstances to arise in that country. Not a word. I find that hard to believe. And these men were Jews, bred and born).

So when it comes to negative history, most nations are peculiarly reluctant to point out their own shortcomings. It’s a continual complaint that the Japanese school system doesn’t say much about Japanese cruelties during World War II for example.

And I think the same thing would apply to the ancient Eqyptians. The Israelites themselves weren’t going to leave much trace. They lived in tents during the early part of the Exodus, were not in the court in Egypt, and their earliest constructions in Canaan would have been rudimentary.

Researching what your own primary sources of information state about when the NT was put together… interesting stuff!

 

[Masters_Servant]

Wow, that’s really generous. Hopefully they’ll take you up on the offer.

Put your money where you mouth is if you really care that much…it was your suggestion, not mine. Anyone I would suggest to read a book, I would offer and have done so. Either God put that idea in your head and brought that person before you or He did not.

 

[budgie2]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place. And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen? Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues? If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me? And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

I never read the Old Testament as Yahweh is a bit harsh although I believe in the Ten Commandments and Genesis creation account.

I just read the Gospels as I’m a follower of Christ and Christ is the Lord of all the prophets.

 

[JPCalifornia]

I never read the Old Testament as Yahweh is a bit harsh although I believe in the Ten Commandments and Genesis creation account.

I just read the Gospels as I’m a follower of Christ and Christ is the Lord of all the prophets.

You must understand that Jesus and his disciples quoted from it. To understand the NT you must understand the OT.

 

[MrZetterlund]

The death of all the firstborn would have been hard to ignore, or wipe out or blot away. I really find that to be the hardest thing to believe.

Actually, they did discover a massive buirial of male children, and some female. Given a scientific critique to the story, the first born in Egyptian families slept lowest to the ground, and they believe some form of gas or something came into the house. I don’t know it’s been a long time since I’ve seen the documentory. But I’d imagine the most painful plagues are the ones they would blot out. That’s probably why we only have an account of the locusts and one other one, the frogs? idk, it’s been too long since I’ve researched this stuff.

 

[Cristian_B]

I am losing my faith in the Old Testament God. I would never consider myself a fundamentalist in the first place, but some things in the Old Testament Bible do seem fundamentally important to the entirety of the religion. Take for example Noah’s Flood. A flood like that would have left a major foot-print. Why is there no sediment deposite from it? It’s like the vanishing flood that never took place.

How do you believe fossils were created? Also, there have been found shells on mountain tops. How do you think these got there?

And Jesus said “the days of the coming of the Son of Man would be like the days of Noah.” What does that mean? It won’t really happen?

It means that it will be a surprise.

Or what about when God led the Hebrews out of Egypt? Why is there no evidence that the Hebrews were even in Egypt, or the Exodus, or the seven plagues?

There is the Bible.

If God hadn’t really ever delivered them, then HOW can I expect Him to deliver me?

Looks like it is easier to believe a whole nation just made up a lie rather than believe that the Jews were in Egypt. Does the fact that the Bible tells it to us make it less credible? How do you know Alexander the Great existed? What makes those guys more credible than the Bible?

And what about giants in the Bible? Why aren’t we finding the remains of giants? Especially if they were wiped out with a flood!

Let me see if I can post an image:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

If there are some problems and you can’t see the image, then you can find it on this site. It should be exactly at the beginning of the article.

 

[Aquinas29]

thanks for the book suggestions. I’ll get Margaret Ralph from the public library tomorrow!

 

[Michael_Vernon]

I have an alternative to looking for archeological or historical proof for every odd thing you find in the Old Testament: look at the message it is supposed to convey. Jesus and His Apostles repeatedly said that the Old Testament was all about Him. So do you accept what the Old Testament says about God: that He is the Creator, that He is above and over all and has the right to administer Justice and Mercy according to His Divine and Supreme Will, that above all He is inculcating in His human children His Graces of Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness?

 

[crazzeto]

Put your money where you mouth is if you really care that much…it was your suggestion, not mine. Anyone I would suggest to read a book, I would offer and have done so. Either God put that idea in your head and brought that person before you or He did not.

I suggested a book for them to read, I never said I had the money to buy it for random people on the internet right now. Point in fact, I’m getting married right now, and paying off some debts. Sorry for any confusion there.