Losing the young generation

[hansard]

In my Religious Education class (students aged about 17-18; Catholic High School), we were discussing sexual ethics.
We read several passages from the NT and OT regarding divorce, homosexuality, adultery, etc. The conversation naturally turned to more modern concerns, not mentioned explicitly in the Bible, such as abortion, contraception, and pornography.

Here is a paraphrased sample of the conversation:

THEM: The Church should allow abortion.
ME: What, on demand? Someone has a casual fling and they can get an abortion?
THEM: No, just in some cases.
ME: Why? Isn’t it against the 5th Commandment? Killing?
THEM: Yeah, but what about rape? You can’t tell us that a woman is expected to carry a child that comes from a rape.
ME: It would be terrible. The most terrible thing, perhaps, for a woman. Yet the Church’s teaching is firm. Anyone who participates in an abortion is liable to be excommunicated. The Church seems to have drawn a line in the sand, and I can’t see it changing in our lifetimes.
THEM: What about contraception, then? The pill, or condoms? Surely they could ease up on that.
ME: Well, it’s all about the sanctity of the marriage union and the purpose of sex. There’s the emotional aspect, you see, and the procreation aspect…
THEM: Why are all these things dictated by old men who have probably never had sex and can’t even get married?
ME: Well, they have a right to set the standards and outline the rules, don’t they? After all, they do run the church. Just like the Principal has the right to make rules around this place, and your parents at home. Sometimes, you just have to accept the rules.
THEM: Yeah, but women have no say in it, and they don’t take into account that times have changed. No wonder young people are not going to church any more.
ME [getting exhausted]: Why does the Church have to be “hip” and trendy, and follow the fleeting demands of popular culture? In your grandparents’ time, we would hardly be having this conversation. What’s wrong with abstaining from sex, for example, when you’re young?
THEM: It’s unrealistic. Everyone is having sex. The Church should realise that and deal with it rather than calling everyone a sinner and sending people to hell.
ME: The Church won’t send anyone to hell…that’s for God to decide.
THEM: Well, it just seems unfair that everything we do is a sin.

…and so it went on (this is a heavily truncated script, and just includes some of the main points).

I don’t know what to say to them, sometimes. For the record, I’m male, nearly 41 and far from a fossil myself, but I find the godlessness and faithlessness of the young to be one of the great disappointments of the modern era. Most of these students would profess to be Catholics if asked, as would their parents and ancestors. They are just locked into a world where individual choice is everything and there is no final, moral authority. God is somebody you pray to when times are tough; you meet him when you go to Heaven (of which there is no doubt). There is no concept of sin or consequence; no remorse or penitence.

It would be easy to give up on the young.

 

[rambo]

wordonfire.org/WOF-Radio/Sermons.aspx

I was the same way when I was young now I am back…Keep up the good work. Early on in his sermons he addresses all these topics of the why…

 

[edjco]

I was going to say the same thing, I’m 45 and had the same feeling when I was that age. As to abortion, when someone brings up rape/incest etc., I always ask: “Yes, but what did the baby do wrong that she should be killed?”

On contraception, maybe try delving into the story of Onan and show them that it was such a big deal to God that He killed Onan.

From there, maybe try to show them that it is not the Church’s job to change what God wants us to do when it becomes unpopular, it is the Church’s job to show us what God wants us to do.

I wrote something on contraception that may help. If you would like a copy, PM me. And thank God for people like you who are teaching our young. My son will be a Junior this year at a Catholic school, and he has had some great teachers. He has become a very religious young man.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

wordonfire.org/WOF-Radio/Sermons.aspx

I was the same way when I was young now I am back…Keep up the good work. Early on in his sermons he addresses all these topics of the why…

I remember hearing the same stuff from folks my age in the '70’s.Then I realized the wisdom of unchanging doctrine.It takes a little time & maturity.
Hang in there.Kids say one thing but in the end appreciate a religion that doesn’t shift with every changing wind & popular movement.Truth is eternal.

 

[chain]

I probably thought most of the same things at the same age. Basically the rules made sense 2000 years ago, but surely do not apply to the modern world. Of course I blame my theories on my Caticisis .

But more importantly, I have to wonder, as a child of the late 60’s, why we were never taught theory of doctrine. The church had wonderful documents like Humane Vita, or Theology of the Body - but these were never brought up. Instead we were told “sex outside of marriage is a sin”-wink, wink (afterward our teacher spoke about belt buckle polishing music). “Masturbation is a sin” (but not a very serious one). My teachers openly admitted that they felt the Church was wrong about birth control and that they were on the pill. I even heard in multiple masses with multiple priest that premarital sex within a relationship was not a mortal sin. That is what I was taught to believe.

I do not teach Catholicism - I do not have the proper time to devote to it. I do volunteer as a core member for a Life Teen group. Most of the other volunteers are Catholic (not that spin off cafeteria variety). Hopefully the next generation will get a head start over what we had.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I probably thought most of the same things at the same age. Basically the rules made sense 2000 years ago, but surely do not apply to the modern world. Of course I blame my theories on my Caticisis .

But more importantly, I have to wonder, as a child of the late 60’s, why we were never taught theory of doctrine. The church had wonderful documents like Humane Vita, or Theology of the Body - but these were never brought up. Instead we were told “sex outside of marriage is a sin”-wink, wink (afterward our teacher spoke about belt buckle polishing music). “Masturbation is a sin” (but not a very serious one). My teachers openly admitted that they felt the Church was wrong about birth control and that they were on the pill. I even heard in multiple masses with multiple priest that premarital sex within a relationship was not a mortal sin. That is what I was taught to believe.

I do not teach Catholicism - I do not have the proper time to devote to it. I do volunteer as a core member for a Life Teen group. Most of the other volunteers are Catholic (not that spin off cafeteria variety). Hopefully the next generation will get a head start over what we had.

I think many folks growing up in the latter part of the 60’s & into the 70’s got :“cheated” when it came to religious training.We are still witnessing the results.
I knew little about my Faith until I home schooled & learned from my kids’ catechism books.I’ve heard weird stuff in homilies, too…

 

[vz71]

In my Religious Education class (students aged about 17-18; Catholic High School), we were discussing sexual ethics…
Most of these students would profess to be Catholics if asked, as would their parents and ancestors. They are just locked into a world where individual choice is everything and there is no final, moral authority. God is somebody you pray to when times are tough; you meet him when you go to Heaven (of which there is no doubt). There is no concept of sin or consequence; no remorse or penitence.

It would be easy to give up on the young.

When I was in High School I was on the losing side of these types of debates every time.
It seemed that every one of my classmates was into sex, alcohol, tobacco, and in many cases drugs.

Going into my 20 year reunion, I am finding nearly all to be faithful Catholics now that apparently agree with the side of the debate I was on so many years ago.
Near all hold fast to church teaching.

So are we losing the younger generation?
It may seem that way, but I suspect that it simply takes time for all of the teaching to bear fruit.

 

[hansard]

Well, vz71, I have to say that you have told a very encouraging story. I have no reason to doubt you. Maybe the location plays a part?
The only thing is, you’re talking about people who were at school 20 years ago (I left high school in 1986, a mere 23 years ago!), so we’re not far apart in age, I’m guessing.
My problem is with the youth of today.

I should clarify, to some extent: they are not all fornicators, grog-heads, pot-heads, or idol-worshipping heretics. Some of them actually care about their faith. However, most do not.

 

[bacon_man]

I’m 15 and I see this first hand, it’s sad. Kids seem to expect to have sex.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I’m 15 and I see this first hand, it’s sad. Kids seem to expect to have sex.

My fifteen year old son gets teased by his teacher because he’s not sexually active nor dates. Also sad…

 

[JRKH]

In my Religious Education class (students aged about 17-18; Catholic High School), we were discussing sexual ethics.
We read several passages from the NT and OT regarding divorce, homosexuality, adultery, etc. The conversation naturally turned to more modern concerns, not mentioned explicitly in the Bible, such as abortion, contraception, and pornography.

It sounds to me as though you have some very bright kids in your class, but they are mostly just parroting things they have been hearing in the secular world and possibly even from their parents (unfortunately). As a person who was away from the church for many years perhaps I can offer some different answers.

THEM: The Church should allow abortion.
ME: What, on demand? Someone has a casual fling and they can get an abortion?
THEM: No, just in some cases.
ME: Why? Isn’t it against the 5th Commandment? Killing?
THEM: Yeah, but what about rape? You can’t tell us that a woman is expected to carry a child that comes from a rape.
(Snip)

Abortion is the taking of a human life. It is murder which is expressly forbidden. Now there are instances where a crime might call for capital punishment and the taking of that life is called justice and not murder.
So the question that needs to be put to people is this:
What crime has the fetus committed that warrants the death penalty?
Can they think of a single instance wherein the Child deserves to die?
Even in the case of Rape or incest, it is not the Child who desrves punishment.

THEM: What about contraception, then? The pill, or condoms? Surely they could ease up on that.
ME: Well, it’s all about the sanctity of the marriage union and the purpose of sex. There’s the emotional aspect, you see, and the procreation aspect…

Just for a laugh, you can tell them that the Church as approved a pill to prevent pregancy. Asprin. Take two asprin and hold them firmly between your knees.

THEM: Why are all these things dictated by old men who have probably never had sex and can’t even get married?
ME: Well, they have a right to set the standards and outline the rules, don’t they? After all, they do run the church. Just like the Principal has the right to make rules around this place, and your parents at home. Sometimes, you just have to accept the rules.

This is not about “Old men making rules”.
Ask them who heads the church. Ask them by who’s authority The Church Governs.
(Whatever you Binde… Whatever you loose…)
The Church Speaks by the Guidance of the Holy Spirit and For the Will of Christ. No “rule” is passed that is not from God’s Love and for the good of the faithful.
If we have issues with these rules it is necessary to look at our own consciences.
What makes an 18 year old’s view better, clearer, and wiser than 2000 years of Church teaching?

THEM: Yeah, but women have no say in it, and they don’t take into account that times have changed. No wonder young people are not going to church any more.

So because the Church conforms to the Will of God instead of teh Will of the World, you wish to blame the Church?

ME [getting exhausted]: Why does the Church have to be “hip” and trendy, and follow the fleeting demands of popular culture? In your grandparents’ time, we would hardly be having this conversation. What’s wrong with abstaining from sex, for example, when you’re young?
THEM: It’s unrealistic. Everyone is having sex. The Church should realise that and deal with it rather than calling everyone a sinner and sending people to hell.

You asked what is wrong with abstaining and their answer is a non-answer.
How about making a list of advantages and disadvantages of pre-marital sex.
Advantage - Can’t get Pregnant
Advantage - Can’t get STD’s
Advantage - Won’t need an Abortion (settles that question)
Advantage - Don’t have to spend money on Birth Control Supplies
Advantage - Pleasing To God
Advantage - Learn greater Control of Emotions.

Dis-advantage - Can’t Satisfy their curiousity
Dis-advantage - ???

You get the idea.

ME: The Church won’t send anyone to hell…that’s for God to decide.
THEM: Well, it just seems unfair that everything we do is a sin.

This, again is a non-answer. Everything they do is NOT a sin. It may well be that many things they Want to do is a sin, but that is life. The tension between spirit and flesh.

I don’t know what to say to them, sometimes. For the record, I’m male, nearly 41 and far from a fossil myself, but I find the godlessness and faithlessness of the young to be one of the great disappointments of the modern era. Most of these students would profess to be Catholics if asked, as would their parents and ancestors. They are just locked into a world where individual choice is everything and there is no final, moral authority. God is somebody you pray to when times are tough; you meet him when you go to Heaven (of which there is no doubt). There is no concept of sin or consequence; no remorse or penitence.

I pray that you will not give up and continue to teach. The Church needs many more like yourself. Perhaps some or even most of your class will eventually leave the Church for a time, but many will not, and many more, like myself will find their way back. The best thing you can do is make sure they have a good solid and orthodox foundation of truth.

One other thing, don’t feel like you need to have every answer right on the tip of your tongue. If you don’t know - say so and then find out. Also - don’t be afraid to defer questions until you’ve had time to think them through.

Just some ideas -

Peace and God Bless
James

 

[bacon_man]

My fifteen year old son gets teased by his teacher because he’s not sexually active nor dates. Also sad…

Thats even sadder. People think your a prude or weird if you choose to wait till your married, thats BS.

 

[JRKH]

Well, vz71, I have to say that you have told a very encouraging story. I have no reason to doubt you. Maybe the location plays a part?
The only thing is, you’re talking about people who were at school 20 years ago (I left high school in 1986, a mere 23 years ago!), so we’re not far apart in age, I’m guessing.
My problem is with the youth of today.

I should clarify, to some extent: they are not all fornicators, grog-heads, pot-heads, or idol-worshipping heretics. Some of them actually care about their faith. However, most do not.

I left High school (public) in 1973 and I can say that the things your kids are asking now are the same things we were asking waaay back then. The thing that most kids don’t realise is that people haven’t really changed. Sex has always been front and center.

It takes time for these things to sink in. Yes you will lose some - Yes some will get it right away - most, like myself, will have to learn the hard way.
They’ll have to graduate fromt he 'School of hard knocks".

Peace
James

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Thats even sadder. People think your a prude or weird if you choose to wait till your married, thats BS.

Agreed.Last school year he had a girl in his 9th Gr. class who already had 2 children.It’s hard to stand up for what you believe is right in that environment.
At least the little girl allowed her babies to be born.That’s something.But a sad way to start off life.

 

[JRKH]

My fifteen year old son gets teased by his teacher because he’s not sexually active nor dates. Also sad…

This is horrible -
Public or Catholic School?
Have you confronted this teacher?

Peace
James

 

[Cracker_Mom]

This is horrible -
Public or Catholic School?
Have you confronted this teacher?

Peace
James

In this instance it was his martial arts teacher, but he’s had similar experiences in public school.
No, I haven’t confronted his teacher.He’s a fallen away Catholic & shares some of our values, but obviously not all.My son is a big boy & stood up for himself in a respectful way.I kind of prefer to let older kids fight their own battles up to a point.If it gets too serious, I’ll step in.

 

[vz71]

Well, vz71, I have to say that you have told a very encouraging story. I have no reason to doubt you. Maybe the location plays a part?
The only thing is, you’re talking about people who were at school 20 years ago (I left high school in 1986, a mere 23 years ago!),

True, I may not be talking about the current generation.

But given everything I have seen, I have no reason to expect different results from the current youth as from my own high school class.

 

[Paul2274]

I have 3 children (2 sons 17 & 11… 1 daughter 5)… I have to say something that is probably not a big surprise here but would be a shocker to the mainstream I’m sure…
here goes… ready…IT IS ALL THE PARENTS FAULT!!!

Ok… everybody shout it all at once…IT IS ALL THE PARENTS FAULT!!!

If parents would do their “parental job” like they should and raise their children with discipline and morals (and not to mention… be the example to your kids) this really would not be a problem in our society today. And stop trying to be your kids “friend”… be a parent… a good one… and teach them what they need in order to face these things.

I agree that we are paying the price for the societal and moral decay of this country as a direct result of the 60’s mentality of… Free everything and rebellion. Now we have fallen further into a cancerous state of the ultimate… Me, Me, Me… it’s all about ME!!!
and you can’t tell me what to do… I have the “Right” to do what ever I want to. :banghead:

Yes it would be very easy to turn our backs on things but that is what we cannot afford to do… only through prayer and service and being a parent to our children (and not a friend)
are we going to have any hope for future generations and our hope lies with Christ.

God Bless, good luck, and be your kids Parent,

Paul

 

[JRKH]

I have 3 children (2 sons 17 & 11… 1 daughter 5)… I have to say something that is probably not a big surprise here but would be a shocker to the mainstream I’m sure…
here goes… ready…IT IS ALL THE PARENTS FAULT!!!

Ok… everybody shout it all at once…IT IS ALL THE PARENTS FAULT!!!

If parents would do their “parental job” like they should and raise their children with discipline and morals (and not to mention… be the example to your kids) this really would not be a problem in our society today. And stop trying to be your kids “friend”… be a parent… a good one… and teach them what they need in order to face these things.

I agree that we are paying the price for the societal and moral decay of this country as a direct result of the 60’s mentality of… Free everything and rebellion. Now we have fallen further into a cancerous state of the ultimate… Me, Me, Me… it’s all about ME!!!
and you can’t tell me what to do… I have the “Right” to do what ever I want to. :banghead:

Yes it would be very easy to turn our backs on things but that is what we cannot afford to do… only through prayer and service and being a parent to our children (and not a friend)
are we going to have any hope for future generations and our hope lies with Christ.

God Bless, good luck, and be your kids Parent,

Paul

Not to belittle what you are saying friend, but being a good parent and example is not always enough. We must remember that we are dealing with humans (children) who have free will.

I was raised in a devout Catholic family and still managed to go down the wrong road as a teen. Pregnant girlfriend, married too young etc.

This was NOT - I repeat - NOT the fault of my parents.
It was **MY - repeat - MY Fault **

I give all credit to my family and especially my mother and Godfather for eventually praying me back into the Church.
Many Parents today do need to take a more active and mature role but even in so doing it is no guarentee.

Peace
James

 

[bacon_man]

Not to belittle what you are saying friend, but being a good parent and example is not always enough. We must remember that we are dealing with humans (children) who have free will.

I was raised in a devout Catholic family and still managed to go down the wrong road as a teen. Pregnant girlfriend, married too young etc.

This was NOT - I repeat - NOT the fault of my parents.
It was **MY - repeat - MY Fault **

I give all credit to my family and especially my mother and Godfather for eventually praying me back into the Church.
Many Parents today do need to take a more active and mature role but even in so doing it is no guarentee.

Peace

James

Well, Some kids do go bad despite their parents best efforts, many of these cases however, are due to poor parenting.