Losing their religion? Catholicism in turmoil

[Adeodatus]

All right then, I’m game for you to prove your claim true.

Please provide the major anti-Catholic headlines, that made international news, for Holy Week for the last 10 years.

Otherwise, I’ll have to read your comment as nothing more than empty rhetoric.

Thanks in advance.

Cool debating trick. I can do it, too.

I demand that you provide evidence of pro-Christian media for each of the last 2000 years or I will make it my public mission to ignore you completely and assume everything you say is false.

Thanks in advance.

P.S.: Any response to me must be footnoted and peer-reviewed or I will discount it as a fabrication.

 

[SMTA]

Critics who’ve exposed child sexual abuse at the hands of a priest and who’ve reported on the Popes role in the aftermath…are Satan’s mouthpieces?

Really?

They should be thanked for having brought such a serious and tragic course events into the light of day.

If Satan were at work, I trust he’d have had a hand in destroying children’s lives and not in having uncovered the scandal so as to assure it never happens again.

You are exactly correct.
I am always intrigued when any religious organization plays the ‘Satan’ card to try and hide truth.

Satan *was *at work, moving his agenda through those priests and the those in the hierarchy of the church who allowed it to happen. Some are too blind or too trusting to recognize this.

The fact that this is taking place near Easter is just that, timing.
Maybe it is the fact that awareness is high due to Easter, and the Catholic church has made many mistakes without accepting accountability for them.
The Vatican is certainly deserving of criticism of some level, and needs to accept that fact.

I have not seen any information regarding any of the alleged ‘treatment’ that any of htese priests may have received. I’ll bet that there was probably no monitoring or follow-up by the church hierarchy to ensure that the identified priests had abstained from additional abuse.

you don’t sound like a Catholic to me.

I hate to disappoint you, but I was raised Catholic.
Just because I have common sense and choose to call out egregious behavior by the church, especially the Vatican, does not make me anything else.
The fact that I refuse to accept these atrocities, and actually think for myself, makes me quite a strong Catholic.
The fact that I refuse to accept pathetically weak leadership in the church who continues to refuse to accept full responsibility for their actions also makes me quite strong.
The fact that the priest who marrid us 32 years ago has been charged, convicted, and de-frocked is also part of this debacle.
The Vatican has always hidden behind a veil of mystic holiness and undeserved respect.
This needs to change, now.
The fact that I have children being raised Catholic makes me very aware of these issues.

Either way, people should not be leaving the church because of this…and I don’t think this article is a fair representation of what is going on in people’s hearts and minds

It’s not just this article, it is all of the pathetic history of the church shirking any responsibility for these rogue priests for the last several decades.
I understand why catholics are fed up with this, and are leaving the church.
They are disgusted, appalled, and tired of hearing of yet another case where a priest had been abusing children for years, and the vatican has done nothing.
The perception by many is that the vatican decided that a pedophile priest was better than no priest at all.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I understand why catholics are fed up with this, and are leaving the church.
.

We have 20 new converts this Easter. And there have been many more during the past years. I see an increase in Catholics, not a decrease.

I think there is a lot less abuse by clergy, (ANY clergy - Jewish, Protestent or Catholic or other) in the recent years. I still think a lot of these lawsuits are unfounded too. If anything, the Church was too ready to settle in the interest of peace, which was probably a big mistake.

 

[Zatzat]

Cool debating trick. I can do it, too.

I demand that you provide evidence of pro-Christian media for each of the last 2000 years or I will make it my public mission to ignore you completely and assume everything you say is false.

Thanks in advance.

P.S.: Any response to me must be footnoted and peer-reviewed or I will discount it as a fabrication.

I gave you the opportunity to produce evidence to back your claim, you failed to do so.

Duly noted, your comment was in fact empty rhetoric.

There’s nothing more for us to discuss.

Good day to you.

 

[gmarie21]

You are exactly correct.
I am always intrigued when any religious organization plays the ‘Satan’ card to try and hide truth.

Satan *was *at work, moving his agenda through those priests and the those in the hierarchy of the church who allowed it to happen. Some are too blind or too trusting to recognize this.

The fact that this is taking place near Easter is just that, timing.
Maybe it is the fact that awareness is high due to Easter, and the Catholic church has made many mistakes without accepting accountability for them.
The Vatican is certainly deserving of criticism of some level, and needs to accept that fact.

I have not seen any information regarding any of the alleged ‘treatment’ that any of htese priests may have received. I’ll bet that there was probably no monitoring or follow-up by the church hierarchy to ensure that the identified priests had abstained from additional abuse.

I hate to disappoint you, but I was raised Catholic.
Just because I have common sense and choose to call out egregious behavior by the church, especially the Vatican, does not make me anything else.
The fact that I refuse to accept these atrocities, and actually think for myself, makes me quite a strong Catholic.
The fact that I refuse to accept pathetically weak leadership in the church who continues to refuse to accept full responsibility for their actions also makes me quite strong.
The fact that the priest who marrid us 32 years ago has been charged, convicted, and de-frocked is also part of this debacle.
The Vatican has always hidden behind a veil of mystic holiness and undeserved respect.
This needs to change, now.
The fact that I have children being raised Catholic makes me very aware of these issues.

It’s not just this article, it is all of the pathetic history of the church shirking any responsibility for these rogue priests for the last several decades.
I understand why catholics are fed up with this, and are leaving the church.
They are disgusted, appalled, and tired of hearing of yet another case where a priest had been abusing children for years, and the vatican has done nothing.
The perception by many is that the vatican decided that a pedophile priest was better than no priest at all.

You must have missed this: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8577740.stm

And this: timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4326600.ece

And this: foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351641,00.html

 

[Adeodatus]

I gave you the opportunity to produce evidence to back your claim, you failed to do so.

Duly noted, your comment was in fact empty rhetoric.

There’s nothing more for us to discuss.

Good day to you.

I gave you the same sort of opportunity. Sorry it didn’t work out.

I hope that you have a good day as well.

 

[thereseozi]

catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1815

MSNBC LIBELS THE POPE

March 30, 2010

Catholic League president Bill Donohue accuses MSNBC of libeling Pope Benedict XVI:

Go to the home page of MSNBC and click on “World News.” From there click on “Americas.” Next click on the article, “Losing Their Religion? Catholicism in Turmoil.” Scroll down and in the “Click for Related Content” section there is an article entitled, “Pope Describes Touching Boys: I Went Too Far.” Clicking on this piece takes the reader to an article about a homosexual German priest who had sex with males in the 1980s. It says absolutely nothing about the pope. Yet MSNBC paints Pope Benedict XVI as a child molester in the tease to the article.

A retraction, and a sincere apology, are in order. They should also investigate how this happened and who is responsible.

Copyright © 1997-2010 by Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.
*Material from this website may be reprinted and disseminated with accompanying attribution.

 

[gmarie21]

I gave you the opportunity to produce evidence to back your claim, you failed to do so.

Duly noted, your comment was in fact empty rhetoric.

There’s nothing more for us to discuss.

Good day to you.

From 2009: onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=483676

Don’t have time now to add more, just wanted to whet your appetite.

 

[thereseozi]

catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1816

NBC APOLOGIZES FOR MSNBC’S HIT ON POPE

March 30, 2010

NBC apologized today for an article on MSNBC’s website entitled, “Pope Describes Touching Boys: I Went Too Far.” The article that readers accessed after clicking on it actually had nothing to do with the pope.

Catholic League president Bill Donohue accepted the apology today:

NBC says the attributed quote was erroneous and they have corrected the error. An apology was also extended. The apology is accepted. We hope that whoever was responsible for this outrageous post is questioned about it and that appropriate measures are taken. We look forward to hearing the outcome.

Copyright © 1997-2010 by Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.
*Material from this website may be reprinted and disseminated with accompanying attribution.

 

[Micholos]

Transparency is needed, forgiveness should be asked for, and yes, even some resignations may have to come to pass in our hierarchy. However, I refuse to pass judgement on any of the bishops. I refuse to think less of my Church, my family, the body of Christ. I pray no one leaves, not on behalf of any of the clergy, but on behalf of the pure offering, given each day.

 

[Musician]

I smell a troll at work here.

 

[Shaken]

…

There are fears that for those whose commitment is already wavering, the scandal could be the final blow, and a growing chorus is clamoring for the church to embrace full transparency, take a hard line against pedophiles, and reconsider the rule of priestly celibacy.[/INDENT]So in other words, it’s the normal and rational thing to do to leave the Church. (Also, the article attacks Ratzinger’s authority and advocates for married priests and womynpriests)

How did the author of the article determine that he was talking to Catholics? Those sound like reasons nonCatholics wish the Church would loose members.

 

[markomalley]

How did the author of the article determine that he was talking to Catholics? Those sound like reasons nonCatholics wish the Church would loose members.

Read a few more threads here on CAF and you will find that there are a number of self-identified Catholics who hold those positions.

(Please note that I say “self-identified” NOT as a matter of questioning anybody’s Catholicism, but just on the Internet, anybody could say they are anything…)

 

[SMTA]

I smell a troll at work here.

If you are referring to me, than it is an expected response to truth.

If not, never mind.

 

[TEPO]

IMHO, no “true” Catholics will be losing anything over this. I personally haven’t wasted any of my time researching who or how many of whatever the problem is - so I don’t really care.

I have more charitable things to do with my time.

 

[vames]

If you are referring to me, than it is an expected response to truth.

If not, never mind.

I’m sorry that your posts seem to be treated as “un-Catholic” or as attempts to trolling. Leniency towards crimes and attempts to deny the truth don’t prove “true Catholicness”! I agree with you, though I’m not sure that abolishing the celibacy rule is the solution - such abuses occur in other environments too, religious or secular, where celibacy is not the problem. As for the Pope, I do feel it’s something fishy about the campaign against him, but I do feel also that he could have done much more to end abuses and punish culprits when he was notified of such cases.

One doesn’t lose his or her religion because of such painful revelations, but it’s natural to be disgusted and to think almost involuntarily, when in church: “what if priest X or Y is an abuser too?” And yes, there may be people who do care more and are much more impressed than others by the thought that a crime such as pedophilia can be treated like a simple sin which can be fixed with prayers and repentance, without any punitive measures being taken by the hierarchy. In other words, that the Church can treat such disgusting crimes more lightly that secular authorities.

Someone said earlier: but we should have known that priests are sinners too, what is the news? To which I’d say: I know, but I’d prefer to not confess to a pedophile and not to hear hypocrite sermons from an abuser.

I hope people will not leave the Church, though. But this will depend on how the Church reacts - if they will treat the press as a Satan’s mouthpiece and will try to accuse the journalists for reporting facts instead of being silent just because of the timing (Easter), then it’s no surprise that people lose their trust (not their faith). Biased journalism and opinion pieces are one thing, reporting facts based on documents and people’s testimonies is completely another.

Add to this the absurd reaction of some Traditionalists who now blame everything on the “secular trends” of V2, like the owner of the blog Rorate Caeli and its commenters do. As if secular laws don’t condemn pedophilia, or as if V2 encouraged child molestation!

 

[SMTA]

I hope people will not leave the Church, though. But this will depend on how the Church reacts - if they will treat the press as a Satan’s mouthpiece and will try to accuse the journalists for reporting facts instead of being silent just because of the timing (Easter), then it’s no surprise that people lose their trust (not their faith). Biased journalism and opinion pieces are one thing, reporting facts based on documents and people’s testimonies is completely another.

Exactly.
Current news reports need to be scrutinized and filtered, like all communications.
I am always careful with anything that I read these days.

I am concerned with the Vatican’s respponse.
INteresting AP article here: Article Here From AP

It seems that the plaintiffs in this case are attempting to sue the Vatican and pope directly.Probably trying to get a larger settlement.

In my opinion, I would estimate that 60~70% of the filed cases are true, and the rest are trying to get on the money wagon.

Appreciate your candor!

 

[Fludgecow101]

msnbc.msn.com/id/36094806/ns/world_news-world_faith//

While reading this, I didn’t know whether to be angry, sad, or laughing.

I hope God has mercy on us…

WARSAW, Poland - An Austrian priest avoids mention of Pope Benedict XVI in his Masses. A Philadelphia woman stops going to confession, saying she now sees priests as more flawed than herself. British protesters call for the pontiff to resign.

As the faithful fill churches this Holy Week, many Roman Catholics around the world are finding their relationship to the church painfully tested by new revelations of clerical abuse and suggestions Benedict himself may have helped cover up cases in Germany and the U.S…

 

[RobbyS]

msnbc.msn.com/id/36094806/ns/world_news-world_faith//

While reading this, I didn’t know whether to be angry, sad, or laughing.

I hope God has mercy on us…

WARSAW, Poland - An Austrian priest avoids mention of Pope Benedict XVI in his Masses. A Philadelphia woman stops going to confession, saying she now sees priests as more flawed than herself. British protesters call for the pontiff to resign.

As the faithful fill churches this Holy Week, many Roman Catholics around the world are finding their relationship to the church painfully tested by new revelations of clerical abuse and suggestions Benedict himself may have helped cover up cases in Germany and the U.S…

The Church is under direct assault by its enemies, because it opposes free abortion and homosexuality. which are attributes of the new sexual morality that is killing whole nations. Babies are now seen as threats to the easy life led by many rather than bearers of the future of their nations. As for the accusations, the Nazis used the same tactics during the 1930s to discredit the clergy in the eyes of Catholics in the Reich. But it is also the consequence of the willingness of bishops and priests to soften the teachings of the Church and to minimize the distinction between Catholics and others and to succumb to the false teachings of modern psychology about the nature of human. sexuality.

 

[gmarie21]

The Vatican, in total arrogance, refuses to apologize or accept responsibility for their actions.

Are you ready to take this back based on the fact that the pope HAS apologized for the actions of those who have violated these teens and children?