Loss of Rewards

[Julius_Caesar]

What is the basis for interpreting certain passages like the Parable of the Talents as reffering to loss of rewards as opposed to condemnation?

 

[Vico]

What is the basis for interpreting certain passages like the Parable of the Talents as reffering to loss of rewards as opposed to condemnation?

Perhaps it is in not noticing that the one receiving but one talent “buried it in the earth” meaning worldly pursuits.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

We’re supposed to use the gifts God gives us

 

[lanman87]

The simple answer is Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

and further in Romans 8:9

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

If the Spirit of God dwells in us the we are “In Christ Jesus” and there is no condemnation for those who are “In Christ Jesus”.

Paul himself tells us that “Being In Christ” is a struggle or war of the Spirit against the flesh. In Chapter 7 Paul laments his own struggle with sin.

13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

It is after this lament about his own personal sinfulness that he says those beautiful words of 8:1.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

We are in the same boat Paul was in, we struggle against sin by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us. And yet, we know that because we are in Christ and the Holy Spirit is in us, there is no condemnation.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

The simple answer is Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Key words. Never does Paul say you can’t be outside of Christ. He specifies how this is true.

The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children. And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) – if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 8:16‭-‬17 NET

He tells the Galatians as much

Listen! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you at all! You who are trying to be declared righteous by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace!
Galatians 5:2‭, ‬4 NET

 

[lanman87]

The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children. And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) – if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 8:16‭-‬17 NET

I’m not saying it is not possible to be outside of Christ. I am saying that those In Christ don’t have to worry about condemnation.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I’m not saying it is not possible to be outside of Christ. I am saying that those In Christ don’t have to worry about condemnation.

The context makes it clear that the last servant doesn’t end up so well.

 

[lanman87]

The context makes it clear that the last servant doesn’t end up so well.

Then the “wicked and slothful servant” wasn’t “In Christ”.

 

[fhansen]

What is the basis for interpreting certain passages like the Parable of the Talents as reffering to loss of rewards as opposed to condemnation?

I’ve only heard that from Protestants who think it should be anathema for us to need to “invest our talents” rather than skate into heaven via faith alone. But the parable is quite clear. The servant who just buried his talents, his grace, his gifts, was cast out of the kingdom.

There are some, rather vague, references in Scripture to rewards in heaven, but they certainly don’t apply in this case. The parable sheds much light on the true age-old understanding of the gospel, on what we’re to do within and from our communion with God once justified by Him, once we enter His fold IOW.

 

[fhansen]

Then the “wicked and slothful servant” wasn’t “In Christ”.

Pure speculation. Scripture speaks of branches grafted in and later cut off, those who’ve tasted of the heavenly gift and later reject it.

 

[fhansen]

I’m not saying it is not possible to be outside of Christ. I am saying that those In Christ don’t have to worry about condemnation.

Yes, if they remain in Him-and produce the fruit that such a relationship should yield.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15

 

[lanman87]

Pure speculation. Scripture speaks of branches grafted in and later cut off, those who’ve tasted of the heavenly gift and later reject it.

Most of what we believe concerning the Parables is “pure speculation”. I think theologians read to much into the imagery and lessons taught by the Parables and sometimes make them try and having meaning that was never intended.

However, there are clues that the unfaithful servant didn’t really understand the master (If you hold that the Master is Jesus).

1. He thought the Master was a hard taskmaster and a merciless boss. When in fact Christ says that His yoke is easy and his burden is light.
2. He was just lazy and didn’t care or think about the Master’s return. If he was truly worried about the Master’s money he would have at least put it in the bank to earn interest.

I think the meaning is that true servants are the ones who care about the Masters return and trust the Masters goodness enough to take risk with what the Master has left in our care. They know the Master and understand His goodness.

To make some claim that the unfaithful servant represent Christians (who truly know the Master) but just don’t care about the Master is a stretch. It is also an Oxymoron. If someone claims to be a follower of Christ and yet doesn’t care about the things of Christ then they aren’t a Christian at all. They are a hypocrite and are play acting.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

However, there are clues that the unfaithful servant didn’t really understand the master (If you hold that the Master is Jesus).

The servant in my view, is anyone who slacks off. The servant gave a really dumb excuse for saying that he didn’t produce the talents.

All of the servants represent the Church, so it’s a bit of a stretch to say that the servant wasn’t really a servant.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I think the meaning is that true servants are the ones who care about the Masters return and trust the Masters goodness enough to take risk with what the Master has left in our care.

There is no distinction in the parable between true and non true servants. All are servants. The only distinction is what they did.

To make some claim that the unfaithful servant represent Christians (who truly know the Master) but just don’t care about the Master is a stretch

Is it? How true is it for us in our daily lives? Aren’t there times when we don’t use God’s gift appropriately?

 

[fhansen]

Most of what we believe concerning the Parables is “pure speculation”. I think theologians read to much into the imagery and lessons taught by the Parables and sometimes make them try and having meaning that was never intended.

However, there are clues that the unfaithful servant didn’t really understand the master (If you hold that the Master is Jesus).

1. He thought the Master was a hard taskmaster and a merciless boss. When in fact Christ says that His yoke is easy and his burden is light.
2. He was just lazy and didn’t care or think about the Master’s return. If he was truly worried about the Master’s money he would have at least put it in the bank to earn interest.

I think the meaning is that true servants are the ones who care about the Masters return and trust the Masters goodness enough to take risk with what the Master has left in our care. They know the Master and understand His goodness.

To make some claim that the unfaithful servant represent Christians (who truly know the Master) but just don’t care about the Master is a stretch. It is also an Oxymoron. If someone claims to be a follower of Christ and yet doesn’t care about the things of Christ then they aren’t a Christian at all. They are a hypocrite and are play acting.

When the message is taken at face value, consistent with Scripture and the teachings of the historic church east and west, then no speculation or stretching is necessary. The wicked servant was a servant, part of the group, and he was cast out of the group. Man can enter a state of justice in God’s eyes-be justified -and then can also lose it, by not walking in justice, by acting unjustly even though he’s now been given the grace to do otherwise, by returning to a life in the flesh, by failing to love, as our new family does, as He does, to put it another way. This is all we need to know-anything else is to second-guess, to put the cart ahead of the horse. And this is why the Church of Christ can teach, simply:

“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”

This ties all of Scripture and the goal of faith and the New Covenant together succinctly.

 

[lanman87]

Is it? How true is it for us in our daily lives? Aren’t there times when we don’t use God’s gift appropriately?

Absolutely, That is why I started with Paul lamenting about his on sins and his own struggle with the flesh. Yet, Paul was “In Christ”. We are in the same boat as Paul.

We struggle as we war against the flesh and seek to live by the Spirit. And yet, we are not under condemnation because we are "in Christ’.

 

[fhansen]

Absolutely, That is why I started with Paul lamenting about his on sins and his own struggle with the flesh. Yet, Paul was “In Christ”. We are in the same boat as Paul.

We struggle as we war against the flesh and seek to live by the Spirit. And yet, we are not under condemnation because we are "in Christ’.

And yet, that meant to Paul the understanding that he still might not make it
“I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of His resurrection and participation in His sufferings, becoming like Him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” Phil 3:10-11-14

 

[lanman87]

And yet, that meant to Paul the understanding that he still might not make it

And yet, even though he hadn’t already obtained his goal, he didn’t have to fear condemnation.

 

[fhansen]

And yet, even though he hadn’t already obtained his goal, he didn’t have to fear condemnation.

Yes, not as long as he continued to strive, to persevere, to remain in Him as they worked out his salvation together.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

And yet, we are not under condemnation as long we are "in Christ’.

Fixed that for you.

even though he hadn’t already obtained his goal, he didn’t have to fear condemnation.

Each competitor must exercise self-control in everything. They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. So I do not run uncertainly or box like one who hits only air. Instead I subdue my body and make it my slave, so that after preaching to others I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:25‭-‬27 NET