Lost/abandoned gospels help please

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michalina58
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Michalina58

Guest
Hi,
My name is Michalina and I’m an agnostic becoming a Catholic. I’m hoping if you guys could please suggest a serious scholarly book (other resources) written from a Catholic perspective about the so called ‘lost gospels’ etc. of both the Old and New Testament that would be comprehensive and in-depth.

If not, then maybe anyone knows some other reliable scholarly books about the lost gospels etc. that are not anti-Catholic ?

Please let me know, I’ll be looking forward to your replies. Thank you in advance and God bless you.
 
Michalina58 said:
If not, then maybe anyone knows some other reliable scholarly books about the lost gospels etc. that are not anti-Catholic ?
Click to expand...
It’s not clear exactly what books you’re looking for. Do you mean the books generally known as the New Testament Aprocrypha, such as the Gospel According to the Hebrews, the Gospel of the Ebionites, the Protevangelium of James, the Gospel of Thomas, and so on? The best-known edition is still that of M. R. James, dating back to the 1920s, though a much enlarged edition was published in the 1990s, edited by J. K. Elliott (link below). If this is indeed what you’re looking for, I’m not aware of any difference between Catholic and Protestant approaches to these works.

 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for the link to the book, I’ll check it out.

Yes, the New Testament Apocrypha,(does apocrypha also include gnostic writings?- sorry, I’m just a beginner) plus, Old testament apocrypha like for ex. book of enoch etc.

Also, I have recently stumbled upon a book about ‘lost writings’ and was wondering what those of you guys who know a lot about faith/this type of ancient writing think about this book/author. Someone told me that it has a “sort of secularized view regarding Christianity”. I’m not sure what to think about that… and that it is biased, particularly towards Catholicism.
Here’s the link to the book I’ve mentioned:


Moreover, if you take a look at the table of contents; it lists many kinds of ancient writings and I’d like to know what is the official position of Catholic Church/scholars regarding such writings and where could I read about it ?

Please let me know, I’ll be looking forward to your replies. Thank you in advance and God bless you.
 
Last edited:
The “lost writings” are mainly an idea for a documentary or something.
In truth they are usually gnostic or otherwise heretical, typically late works or works done not by mainstream/Orthodox Christians (ie Catholics).

Some perfectly fine writings are also not in the Canon, ie the Shepherd of Hamas and a letter of St Paul
 
Michalina58 said:
Sorry, I forgot to attach the link 🙂 Just edited the post
Click to expand...
Michalina.―The book looks quite interesting. It covers a great deal of ground in not much over 300 pages, which means the authors don’t have enough space to go into any one subject in very much detail. For instance, they cram the whole of the Dead Sea Scrolls into just 15 pages! By all means read it if it interests you. It certainly can’t be any kind of threat to your new-found Catholic faith. It’s not arguing a case for or against Christianity, or for or against the Catholic Church in comparison with other churches. It’s not that kind of book. It’s basically a very concise, succinct overview of all the early writings on religious subjects―mainly within the Christian church and later Judaism but also on the wilder outer edges of early Christianity, including the Gnostics―that for one reason or another got left out of the canon of Holy Scripture. The downside, as I see it, is that all the writings dealt with in this book are not really important enough to deserve your attention, at least for the time being. Quite a lot of the stuff in there you’d find pretty dull. On the whole there was a sound reason, in each case, why each of these works got left out of the Bible. I don’t know what other books you’ve read, but my suggestion would be to look for books that have a more immediate bearing on your understanding of the Gospel and the Catholic faith. Presumably you’re in touch with a priest. Have you asked him to suggest a reading list?

I hope you find this helpful. I’ll be happy to provide any further information, if I’m able to.
 
First of all, I’d like to thank you and say that I’m very grateful you have replied to my questions.

Yes, I have a reading list, many books from it I found on here ,so I’m really happy and thank God everyday for finding this site and members like you who care about answering questions and ultimately pointing people who seek and are discovering Catholic faith towards God. Especially people like me who don’t know who to ask, since my friends don’t know or care much about any faith.

Regarding the apocrypha I was wondering mostly about the reasons why those books got left out and who wrote them/when they were written ? Since some people I know say that this or that book should be included in the Bible or that the Church suppressed the particular book or books on purpose for various reasons.
So, I would like to know more about how to respond (I need exact reasons, if possible, and also more info about the history of those books and people or groups who wrote them-ideally from Catholic perspective-, and not so much about the content of the books, as I agree with you that those writings are not really important enough to deserve much attention.

Thank you again and God bless you.
 
Michalina58 said:
who wrote them/when they were written ?
Click to expand...
HI Michalina,

I can only talk to some of the books. Some were written by a group that were called Gnostics. They had several different beliefs but the two main ones were that the Old Testament god and the New Testament God were different. The Old Testament god was the creator of all matter and was evil. Thus they believed that matter was evil, including our bodies. The New Testament God was the God of the spiritual and was good. Thus they believed that the spirit is good while the material is bad.

The second thing that they taught was that they were the keepers of “special knowledge” which only a select few were permitted to have. They were the “elite” as it were and only these elite could be saved. Of course this is nonsense, since Jesus came to save all of us. This is what the term “Gnostic” means, knowledge.

They were mostly active in the first two to three centuries, but these teachings spring up every now and then. The Gospel of Thomas is one of their writings.

Blessings
 
"Michalina583d
Hi,
My name is Michalina and I’m an agnostic becoming a Catholic. I’m hoping if you guys could please suggest a serious scholarly book (other resources) written from a Catholic perspective about the so called ‘lost gospels’ etc. of both the Old and New Testament that would be comprehensive and in-depth.

If not, then maybe anyone knows some other reliable scholarly books about the lost gospels etc. that are not anti-Catholic ?

Please let me know, I’ll be looking forward to your replies. Thank you in advance and God bless you."

http://www.ntcanon.org/table.shtml
 
WHY friend are you looking for them; they HAVE been proven to be FALSE religious teaching.

The Bible is a CATHOLIC BOOK

It was Catholics who guided by the Holy Spirit, choose the 46 OT books

It was Catholics who AUTHORED inspired by the Holy Spirit; the entire NT, for CATHOLICS and BY Catholics. eyar

My friend the RCC is the One True Church founded, desired and guided by BOTH the Holy Spirit and Jesus

Read Mt 16:15-19
John 17:17-20
Mt 28:19-20

With our 2,000 year old One True Faith, there is VERY much to learn rather than looking for trouble. My grandpa used to say: WHEN YOU LOOK FOR TROUBLE YOUR MUCH MORE LIKELY TO FIND IT.

My friend, you are well advised to spend your time learning our Catholic Faith and why we believe what we do and why we practice as we do than messing around with TEXT proven not to have been Holy Spirit Inspired., and which gives Satan a way to avoid becoming a Catholic.

Learn first WHAT to believe, so you will be equipped to handle what NOT to believe.

May GOD guide your path

Patrick
 
Hi, PJM
Thank you for replying to my post. I agree that learning about the Catholic Church/faith should be my priority. However, like I have mentioned before,- I’m not really interested in the content of those writings. I was wondering mostly about the reasons why those books got left out(how did they determine that those particular writings were not inspired?) and who wrote them/when they were written ? Since some people I know say that this or that book should be included in the Bible or that the Church suppressed the particular book or books on purpose for various reasons.

So, I would like to know more regarding the apocrypha to help me respond to those statements and also, just to have a better understanding of this topic - (I need exact reasons, if possible, and also more info about the history of those books and people or groups who wrote them-ideally from Catholic perspective-, and not so much about the content of the books, as I agree with you that those writings are not really important enough to deserve much attention.

Thank you again and God bless you.
 
My friend, I’m not a historian and feel unqualified to respond to your wants.

May God guide your path

Patrick
 
Michalina58 said:
Hi, PJM
Thank you for replying to my post. I agree that learning about the Catholic Church/faith should be my priority. However, like I have mentioned before,- I’m not really interested in the content of those writings. I was wondering mostly about the reasons why those books got left out(how did they determine that those particular writings were not inspired?) and who wrote them/when they were written ? Since some people I know say that this or that book should be included in the Bible or that the Church suppressed the particular book or books on purpose for various reasons.

So, I would like to know more regarding the apocrypha to help me respond to those statements and also, just to have a better understanding of this topic - (I need exact reasons, if possible, and also more info about the history of those books and people or groups who wrote them-ideally from Catholic perspective-, and not so much about the content of the books, as I agree with you that those writings are not really important enough to deserve much attention.

Thank you again and God bless you.
Click to expand...
In hindsight, various people justify inclusion based on certain common factors: Age of the book; Was it written by an apostle, or under influence of an apostle? Is the doctrine consistent with Christian doctrine? and et cetera. The rationale of some people is to show the non-necessity of the Magisterium - that these criteria are self-identifying, so the process was sort of auto pilot.

The problem is, how do you know those criteria are the right criteria? Even if they are, the ancients probably did not know exactly how old a book is, or who really wrote it. If the Bible is the source of doctrine, as they claim, how can you use the doctrine to choose your scriptures?

Since there is no template of what a New Testament book is “supposed” to look like, there is no real way we can, at this point in time, say This Book should have been included, or That Book should have been excluded. Essentially the Magisterium identified certain books as NT, and excluded the vast majority of other possible books.

Churches in union with the Magisterium, who may have been in the minority, adopted that 27 book canon. Other Christians, including gnostics and others, followed their own canons. The Magisterium won. Those alternate Christianities died out. Their books disappeared or went out of circulation, as the vast majority of all ancient books disappeared, since they were no longer being copied.

If you accept the Magisterium today, you accept their 27 book canon. If you don’t accept the Magisterium, you might plausibly accept other books as NT. You could, in theory, develop your own criteria. Even Christians who do not explicitly accept the Magisterium, implicitly accept its authority somewhat if they commit to its 27 book NT canon.
 
Last edited:
Michalina58 said:
I’m not really interested in the content of those writings. I was wondering mostly about the reasons why those books got left out(how did they determine that those particular writings were not inspired?) and who wrote them/when they were written ?
Click to expand...
May I suggest the book “Where we got the Bible - Our Debt to the Catholic Church” by Henry G. Graham.

It was published by many publishers, and you can buy it from Amazon or from Catholic Answers.

I also recommend the DVD “Why you can Trust the Gospels” by Jimmy Akin Why You Can Trust The Gospels

God Bless
 
Last edited:
Just a couple additional notes.

One comment was that the majority of all ancient books died out as they were not being copied. If they died out, might that not also be indicative of their lack of inspiration? We have been told the gates of Hell shall not prevail.

Another comment. If you do read / review those alternative Gospels, Sophias etc, you will find several contradict, that is, cannot be made to be consistent with each other, and thus, you come down to an either or situation, not a both and.

Some of the surviving books are pius works, and do not contradict scripture, but for whatever reason did not survive the cut. Maybe time will give us the reason.

Final comment. The vast majority of EVERYTHING disappears over time. I had at one point about 6000 science fiction books. Most of those titles will be gone from collective memory in another century. Why? Because they weren’t that good.

Just some food for thought.

Blessings,
Stephie
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top