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lilypadrees
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Nope. God has kept me Catholic all these years. But He did allow me to experience the other side as well (Protestantism with all its quirks and prejudices).
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Angel_Gabriel
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Well, I wouldn’t say I lost my faith completely. I was raised Roman Catholic in a mixed faith house (dad SDA, mom Catholic). It was a mess…I have OCD so I suffer from scrupulosity and I became an insufferable know it all in my teen years. In my early 20s I became a bit more “lukewarm”…missing mass frequently, etc. Got married and had kids and came back around. Got involved with Eastern Catholicism which took me down the path of Orthodoxy. A few years back my husband and I seriously considered becoming Orthodox. I’ll be honest and admit that it still is a possibility depending on what happens with our small UGCC mission parish. My husband was raised non denominational but converted 11 years ago. He doesn’t have OCD and is not hung up on all the rules…not at all. I envy that lol! We both have issues with the papacy and with the extreme legalistic aspects of Catholicism including contraception.
I can sympathize with several of the posters here in this thread…good to know I’m not alone!
I can sympathize with several of the posters here in this thread…good to know I’m not alone!
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QwertyGirl
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Same for me. With each round of sacrament preparation, it only became worse for me.
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whichwaytogo47
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Totally agree. I think one of the biggest mistakes we make is to presume on the graces of the sacraments without ensuring that people receive the proper catechesis instruction. To then fend for yourself. I think a delayed grace with proper instruction is much better than an early grace with permanent improper instruction. It’s easy to get swindled into believing the Catholic church is legalistic when people don’t really understand what the Catholic Church stands for. I think we all need to focus on our faith formation in which the sacraments play a large part but truly understanding what they represent and truly believing in Love God and Love Neighbor and you have a good foundation for repentance. I think we need to help people truly understand the faith and truly spend the time to make sure people learn the faith instead of passing them along and hoping they’ll figure it out. That’s a recipe for them getting brainwashed and believing in someone or something else that helps them understand “the puzzle” and guides them towards potentially seeking not only incomplete doctrine as is true in the Protestant faith but instead false doctrine as in the prosperity Gospel or a cult or a non-Christian religion - faiths that believe in a Supreme God but not in the trinity. The sacraments convey graces but don’t guarantee heaven. Yes the sacraments are not merely symbols but they also don’t mean anything if you’re not of the proper disposition and don’t know how to stick with God and understand the trinity and understand that his death on the cross was to pay the debt we could never repay.
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fhansen
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I was raised Catholic and lost the faith as a youth-only because I discovered I really didn’t have it to begin with. I don’t know if you can actually lose it once you do have it though. Anyway, I later began to seek truth/God on my own, in a variety of places, and at some point several years later found myself believing in the Christian God, to my surprise. Much later yet, and more surprising yet, through a series of events, I found myself Catholic “again”.
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gracepoole
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You’re leaving the True Presence because people at your local parish weren’t social enough with you?
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whichwaytogo47
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That’s a whole lot harder than you think. I think genuine goodwill is something that’s really hard to pass up. Someone who truly cares about whether you walk in the Lord is very helpful to staying in the faith. Of course, the true test is are they okay with you being Catholic or will they walk away from you once they know you’re not going to subscribe to the Baptist or Evangelical faith even though you do have a personal relationship with God. I feel like I go to Church to be with God not to be with people, to truly get the Eucharist and not the symbol, but I can see how the Eucharist can keep someone at Church as can Christian Fellowship can keep someone at Church. Both can be works of the Holy Spirit. That shall not be ignored. Being able to live a sanctified life is not dead whether you are Protestant or Catholic and being able to be truly contrite and repentant saves you even from mortal sin. It’s just in the Catholic Church you have access to Confession which truly guides you in your contrition - something you have yourself and yourself alone (with help of the Spirit potentially) in the Protestant Church. This can definitely have you in more danger than in the Catholic Church. Whether you want to believe you lost your salvation or were never saved in the first place seems to be picking hairs because they’re both detrimental to our spiritual walk and have the same result: Hell! But an insincere heart puts you in danger in the Catholic Church even if you do go to confession and receive absolution because your absolution is contingent on your heart - not necessarily a perfect heart or perfectly contrite but in terms of not going there in a superstitious manner but truly a genuine one. Only God can judge whether your heart is truly contrite or if you’re simply going thru the motions (i.e. your motive for Confession is not to go to Hell rather than because you’re going there because you love God) and not to be truly repentant of your sins.
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whichwaytogo47
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I concur. I think legalism does turn someone away. There’s a difference between presumption and temptation. There’s a difference between someone who wants to deny contraception because they don’t want or are not open to kids or because they believe NFP doesn’t work. For some people, NFP is propoganda and people truly don’t believe it’s 95% effective. They truly don’t believe it’s from God but human interpretation of God. They don’t believe it truly reflects people living longer and not dying in childhood, something that was very prevalent just 100 years ago. They truly believe that there’s an ulterior motive (aka more money for the church, more believers, etc). I believe to trust in God’s providence but I’m human and it’s hard not to doubt the twisting of God’s good works for some type of personal gain even something that seems virtuous.
I love when a family of five comes forward and says that each of their kids were NFP. Yes there are “no accidents” as all life is a gift, but I don’t believe for a second that five kids was their initial plan. It may have resulted in less children and may have worked a lot of the time. And sex is more wonderful without a condom or the potential that it could result in life but some people recognize that the risks of getting pregnant are too high to be reckless. I highly doubt that people who used the rythmn method weren’t told that it was very effective until NFP came along. It’s hard to believe it’s not a false hope in avoiding pregnancy.
Some of the people who have a lot of kids and try to use NFP rarely have sex. It’s possible to have irregular cycles or to mis-measure or for it just to fail for some reason. I was always the time of person before I realized we were infertile to say I’m willing to try NFP up to 3 times and than it is snip-snip (aka a vasectomy).
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gracepoole
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Of course. But would I ever say to Christ, “Hey, thanks for dying for me and all, and I know the Mass allows me to be at Your foot on Calvary and to receive You fully, but I really can’t stand the other people You allow to be there with me, so I’m gonna pass”? Answer: no. Find another parish if the one you’re attending is so unbearable. But for heaven’s sake, remember what you’re really doing at the Mass and why. (BTW, this poster has been in the Church for a whopping 4 months and is now leaving because he doesn’t feel welcomed by his fellow parishioners.)
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whichwaytogo47
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The problem is that the issue is systemic and there are very few Catholic churches that are welcoming to people of all types beyond the initial meeting. And that assumes they’re even kind to first-comers. Some don’t even do that. I think it’s tragic that he left after 4 months because the Catholic Church has a lot of beauty, something he could see and become a part of if people would just help him walk in the faith.
They’re way too many cliches in the Catholic Church. I may be a part of the problem. We all need to be part of the solution to truly keep people around.
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Angel_Gabriel
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Yes! NFP is a hot button issue with me…quite frankly it’s a HUGE cross. The way the church “promotes” it is a problem. It’s not supposed to be thought of as birth control yet that is EXACTLY what it is. You are attempting to control the birth of a child. I’ve had several miscarriages and we have 4 living kids…I’m older and even though finances are a bit better than they were when I was younger, we don’t want to have any more kids. According to a lot of posts I read here, I’m using NFP with a contraceptive mentality b/c I won’t ever be truly open to more kids since am not using it to space kids anymore. sigh…
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gracepoole
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Are you really claiming that all Catholic parishes are unwelcoming?gracepoole:
The problem is that the issue is systemic and there are very few Catholic churches that are welcoming to people of all types beyond the initial meeting. And that assumes they’re even kind to first-comers. Some don’t even do that.
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whichwaytogo47
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I’m claiming that people cling way too much to their friends and don’t reach out to their fellow parishioners except for maybe welcoming new-comers prior to mass. We definitely also are most likely to leave right after and not hang out to socialize (myself included). So yes, I am claiming that.
I belong to a great Catholic parish that has a good small-group. I like the mens group. But there isn’t the sincere effort to evangelize and they’re definitely is the issue of people not engaging those they don’t know well. It’s definitely possible to have that happen too in a Protestant church; it happens when we get complacent.
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gracepoole
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Actually, you claimed it’s a systemic problem and moving parishes wouldn’t help, indicating that all parishes are unwelcoming. I’ve sampled A LOT of the parishes in my city and this is just false. Some are insular, some are not. Some have parishioners who isolate in their pews, some have parishioners who are outgoing to those around them. Some have established committees that are uninviting, some are begging for new recruits.gracepoole:
I’m claiming that people cling way too much to their friends and don’t reach out to their fellow parishioners except for maybe welcoming new-comers prior to mass. We definitely also are most likely to leave right after and not hang out to socialize (myself included).
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ConfusedLucy
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I can only speak for myself but for a while I really feared I simply wasn’t strong enough to keep at being Catholic without earthly support. I wondered if I found a non-Catholic church where I could be supported then maybe at least I could keep being a practicing Christian rather than someone who has given up practicing anything.
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whichwaytogo47
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I can see the church’s point that you need to be open to children. But with that said, you’ve had enough. You have had four kids. You cannot relate to the church asking you to be open to kids when you have been open to having children and have attempted to use NFP but now have four children.
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ConfusedLucy
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In my experience apart from my student parish I have found parishes very samey. I don’t think they are trying to make anyone feel excluded but they pretty much all have target demographics or else people prefer to stick with those they have grown up with.
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QwertyGirl
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To me, many of the Church’s teachings on human sexuality (especially contraception) just cross a very apparent boundary. I don’t think it has any business going where it goes, between the bond of marriage between two people. Therefore, I can’t subscribe to it. And then I say, if the Church has gotten this so wrong, what else has it gotten wrong? Like I said in my earlier post, the house of cards collapses.
I do pull from the teachings the parts I believe to be valid to assist me in my spiritual journey. I do that with a lot of different faiths.
I do pull from the teachings the parts I believe to be valid to assist me in my spiritual journey. I do that with a lot of different faiths.
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whichwaytogo47
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Definitely! But people are there for the body & blood of Christ not social fellowship
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whichwaytogo47
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That is where our temptation comes into play. We want to take what we can take out of our faith or what we believe to be true and not take it for what it is. True faith is to find out why something is important.
The teaching on sexuality is meant to encourage marriage and the procreation of children. It’s meant to reduce out-of-wedlock births and same-sex sexual attraction. Though a homosexual couple who are consecrate virgins are committing no sin unless they fall away and act on it.
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