Lost in the Catholic Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter kungfubob
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
catholiconce said:
Only got the Bible? What else is there? Dogma ? Catholic Dogma Defines the Bible to support their belief and to judge others.
Click to expand...
Actually this is wrong, its the opposite, The Bible supports Catholic Dogma, And the Church supports our beliefs. And to answer your other question, Only Got the Bible what else is there? There are the Letters, and the Oral Teachings. If you read the bible it will tell you that, So maybe go back with an open mind and reread the bible. And do like Catholics are taught to do, Read the bible and pray for the Grace from God to understand what God is trying to relay to you personally in that scripture. .There is a message for each of us from God we must find it. We are not supposed to interpret
it the Church is here for that. But once we understand what God is telling us, then go back and figure out how to relate it to today. And what he wants us to do with that lesson in todays life.
 
rinnie said:
Actually this is wrong, its the opposite, The Bible supports Catholic Dogma, And the Church supports our beliefs. And to answer your other question, Only Got the Bible what else is there? There are the Letters, and the Oral Teachings. If you read the bible it will tell you that, So maybe go back with an open mind and reread the bible. And do like Catholics are taught to do, Read the bible and pray for the Grace from God to understand what God is trying to relay to you personally in that scripture. .There is a message for each of us from God we must find it. We are not supposed to interpret
it the Church is here for that. But once we understand what God is telling us, then go back and figure out how to relate it to today. And what he wants us to do with that lesson in todays life.
Click to expand...
Yes I know of the Letters and The Oral Teachings.I have and do read the bible
 
To KUNGFOBOB
First let me say, that you are in my prayers, that God may guide you in your fervor to do his true work. That said, let me point out just a few points I would ask that you please consider and answer to yourself reflectively.
  1. This is the Church which Jesus was referring to when he said he would give us the Holy Spirit as our guide, and the gates of hell would not prevail. He said this of his Church, not the individuals in the Church. Was he lying when he said the gates of hell will not prevail?.
  2. As for Hail Mary’s, what was Gabriel’s greeting to Mary at the annunciation. Was it not Hail Full of Grace. After all, she was picked by God to give Jesus flesh in his incarnation. Should she not have been a pure vessel.?
  3. What is your feeling about TRUTH.? Do you believe it to be relative, or one singular and immutable. If it is relative, I would only ask, How does the Holy Spirit contradict itself so much? Not every church can be right. Not every individual can be right, simply because truth does not contradict itself.
  4. Pride in the first of the Capitol Sins. Remember the saying that pride goes before the fall. Consider the position you have put yourself in. You are rejecting the Church that Jesus himself established and are rejecting its teachings. You, just you, are more knowledgeable than the billions who have been Catholic, are more correct than the Pope, the Vicar of Christ on Earth (a man) who holds succession to Peter to whom Jesus said, “You are rock and upon this rock I will build my Church”. You are more knowledgeable than the Magisterium of the Church, which is the Pope and Bishops in union with him. (all men) The Church has never taught error on faith and morals.
  5. You Kungfobob are saying that in effect, only you out of all the people in this world have the correct and true faith, because you found it in the Bible, which we all have because of the Catholic Church. If you say others who have found the faith this way are correct, have you spoken to them to determine whether you (collectively) all believe the same thing, or if just you (singularly) have the truth out of all who are on this earth. I don’t know about you, but this sounds a lot like PRIDE to me.
What I am saying is that I sense someone who has been hurt by the Church, or someone who is in a position of authority in the Church. Well, so was I. But that did not drive me from the Church, rather it made me cling to the Church, with the knowledge that this one individual was not the Church, but just one person in the Church. It made me look closer to the Eucharist, Jesus himself who comes to me out of love to feed me with the very bread of life. Instead of condemning the Church for what an individual did, I pray for that individual and for the Church, because I know that this harmed the Mystical Body. Please consider this.
Pray for those who harmed you and pray for the Church, and for me too, as I always need prayers. You will be in mine.
Deacon Ed B
 
Bob,
I do know how you understand that you feel as if the Catholic Church will not help you get to heaven. However my friend, you are overlooking a fact that many people do overlook. Just because almost all Catholics do not really act like Catholics; that does not mean that the Church itself is wrong. The Church was not always like this. It use to be so much better. I beg you not to stay out of the Church, but be joined with Her in the true sence of the word.
Indeed, if I had a choice I would have nothing to do with many bishops and priests that call themselves Catholics…So many of them are actually heretics and more! Yet, all the same…Maybe you could find one parish out of the world that has a saint for its pastor (like another Saint Padre Pio), and go there.
Basicly, do not separate yourself from the Church for “Outside the Church there is no Salvation”, and indeed even Christ said that the road to heaven is like “One Fold” and that all who tried to get into heaven through another way are like wolves that will be cast out into hell.
I know that this may sound odd to you…but bascily, if you really want to do as Our Dearest Jesus would want of you. Look for dogmas, and doctrines that are infallible, and hold to them at least. If you can not find a Church in your area that does not have a heretical priest or such; pray to God that you may find one.
I hope that God may help lead you to Heaven in the most dirrect way. May God bless you!
Maria
 
dyspepsic said:
The recommended changes in the liturgy put forward by Vatican 2 - vernacular, participated Mass, communion under both species, altar facing the people, restrict or remove prayers that are not part of the Sacrifice, as the prayers at the end of the Mass, the requirement for preaching a sermon at every Mass, expansion of readings from Sacred Scripture, removal or leseening of genuflections and crosses, which added a superstitutious element to the Mass.

Is that enough for you? I dont have to quote chapter and verse on these things, since most have been implemented, which drives the Tradtionalists over the edge, calling them ‘protestant’ changes, lessening of devotion, and such.

Thank God they are holier than us, and holier than the Pope.
Click to expand...
I said name the document, not the changes. Many abuses have been implemented.

And just because someone has standards does not mean that they have the holier than thou mentality. That comment of yours I’ve heard thrown out so many times before, but it’s *usually *only quoted by lazy Catholics who only want the bare minimum of religion and God.

Going along with your apparent mentality, I guess fornication with a priest is okay and to condemn that means that I’m “holier than the pope” because, after all, it was done be a pope. I could also dig up the body of a priest and toss him in the river, why? A pope did it. Holiness has nothing to do with common sense. I can accept heresy and condemn those you don’t, because…I think you’re getting the point.

If you believe that the Pope can make no mistakes, that he is perfect (which is obviously your opinion, according to your last comment in the post I’m quoting) you need to spend more time studying the teachings of the Church you claim to belong to, not to mention the writings of the Saints as well as previous popes. Believe it or not, Jesus didn’t found the Church in the sixties.

Peace.
 
catholiconce said:
Yes I know of the Letters and The Oral Teachings.I have and do read the bible
Click to expand...
Then you must be in agreement with me that the oral teachings were left to the Church, as were the letters. Also where in those letters or oral teachings taught us to judge others. That is not the Catholic Faith, The Catholic Faith say God will judge us on Judgement Day. Catholic Dogma does not state to judge other. Im sorry this just is not true. Catholic Dogma is the Truth, Catholic Dogma is the Church. And Jesus said he will protect his Church. The gates of hell will not prevail. Thats Catholic Teachings, written, oral and Divine.
 
latinmasslover said:
I said name the document, not the changes. Many abuses have been implemented.

And just because someone has standards does not mean that they have the holier than thou mentality. That comment of yours I’ve heard thrown out so many times before, but it’s *usually *only quoted by lazy Catholics who only want the bare minimum of religion and God.

Going along with your apparent mentality, I guess fornication with a priest is okay and to condemn that means that I’m “holier than the pope” because, after all, it was done be a pope. I could also dig up the body of a priest and toss him in the river, why? A pope did it. Holiness has nothing to do with common sense. I can accept heresy and condemn those you don’t, because…I think you’re getting the point.

If you believe that the Pope can make no mistakes, that he is perfect (which is obviously your opinion, according to your last comment in the post I’m quoting) you need to spend more time studying the teachings of the Church you claim to belong to, not to mention the writings of the Saints as well as previous popes. Believe it or not, Jesus didn’t found the Church in the sixties.

Peace.
Click to expand...
You need help.
 
latinmasslover said:
I Many abuses have been implemented.

Peace.
Click to expand...
So, what you are saying is that Jesus promise to the Apostles to send the Paraclete when he left this earth was not fulfilled.

That his Church is full of errors, and has even implemented them.

Maybe you belong on the Non-Catholic forum. I don’t have the time or space or energy to respond to you lack of faith in the Roman Catholic Church, as founded by Jesus Christ.
 
rinnie said:
Actually this is wrong, its the opposite, The Bible supports Catholic Dogma, And the Church supports our beliefs. And to answer your other question, Only Got the Bible what else is there? There are the Letters, and the Oral Teachings. If you read the bible it will tell you that, So maybe go back with an open mind and reread the bible. And do like Catholics are taught to do, Read the bible and pray for the Grace from God to understand what God is trying to relay to you personally in that scripture. .There is a message for each of us from God we must find it. We are not supposed to interpret
it the Church is here for that. But once we understand what God is telling us, then go back and figure out how to relate it to today. And what he wants us to do with that lesson in todays life.
Click to expand...
Then why do so many Catholic Radio apologist Quote Dogma rather than the Bible? They assume only they can interpet the bible’s meaning
 
rinnie said:
catholiconce;3546956:
Then why do so many Catholic Radio apologist Quote Dogma rather than the Bible? They assume only they can interpet the bible’s meaning
Click to expand...
Gee, could it have anything to do with 2,000 years of history? Could it have anything to do with that these questions were discussed in times past and that dogma means “hey, we’ve been there, done that” and decided what is right and what is not? No, the Holy Spirit has not been active for the last 1,500 years. We all know that the Holy Spirit did not descend upon the Church until sometime in the 1500s and that everything is open to interpretation by the individual believer.

Any honest student of history would know better.
Click to expand...
 
I have a suggestion for you. I had a simmilar problem. remember Judas was Christ’s treasurer. He knew there would be traitors in his Church. Don’t let there selfishness and others ignorance sway you from the true faith. The Mass is not BIBLE Study. The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church, it is her baby. First there was the Magistarium, then Apostolic Tradition,Then the Bible The prayers in the mass are Apostolic Tradition. I wish I could show you what GOD has brought to my attention. Get Steven K Ray Crossing the TIBER, get all you can from Scott hann, Especially the Lambs Supper. Get to know the faith While the Bible (New Testament) was written and the Catholic Church will make perfect sense. Remember when the new testament letters refer to scripture, theyare refering to the Old testament, the Septuigant, and the Didachi. Read Ignatius Start there
 
I need to continue. Don’t get caught up in the Paganism thing. Even Baptism was a pagan ritual untill consecrated by Christ. Anything that God consecrates to himself is not paganism. It is if you do those rituals to another god. Statues and graven images in the Catholic church seems to contradict the commandments. You can’t think in today’s terms. Back then most people could not read. The Church is bringing the stories of the Bible to those who can’t read, but they can read the walls, windows, statues, candles, and tell you the story of what it represents. How do I know? I asked a friend of mine about that. We went to Church and said what do you see. I was quite blind. He “READ” the Church to me and it was the Bible. Do not over look that the last book, Revelations, says not to add or take away from this book. Fundamentally this line is read as the Whole Bible and 1500 years after protestants took 7 books out saying they were not inspired. In heaven you find 1500 years of Christians who believed in those Sacred Scriptures and today ALL Catholics. Find out about your faith
 
brotherhrolf said:
rinnie;3547040:
Gee, could it have anything to do with 2,000 years of history? Could it have anything to do with that these questions were discussed in times past and that dogma means “hey, we’ve been there, done that” and decided what is right and what is not? No, the Holy Spirit has not been active for the last 1,500 years. We all know that the Holy Spirit did not descend upon the Church until sometime in the 1500s and that everything is open to interpretation by the individual believer.

Any honest student of history would know better.
Click to expand...
Why the sarcasim Is that in your Dogam as well
Click to expand...
 
rinnie said:
catholiconce;3549018:
Im sorry but that isnt my quote. I know my names on it but i dont understand how that happened. My computer has been screwing up a little. But I swear it wasnt me.
Click to expand...
If you read what you said somehow what i answered you became part of your thread. I will show you.
Click to expand...
 
catholiconce said:
brotherhrolf;3547452:
Why the sarcasim Is that in your Dogam as well
Click to expand...
No. Not only am I Catholic, I am a student of history. And as a student of history I realize that we, today, are dwarves standing upon the shoulders of giants. We are who we are today because of what happened in history. If the apologists use dogma, it is because those who went before us thought about it, argued about it, and decided upon it. Like it or not, Christianity did not start in the 1500s, To ignore what happened before that is the same thing as discussing the US Constitution w/o reference to the Federalist Papers etc.

Just how far do you think a Sola Constitution approach would work bereft of Supreme Court Cases or our history? Should HMC be any different with a far longer history? Think of dogma as Supreme Court rulings inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
 
dyspepsic said:
So, what you are saying is that Jesus promise to the Apostles to send the Paraclete when he left this earth was not fulfilled.

That his Church is full of errors, and has even implemented them.

Maybe you belong on the Non-Catholic forum. I don’t have the time or space or energy to respond to you lack of faith in the Roman Catholic Church, as founded by Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it seems you don’t have time to study your own religion, so you ought to drop this site totally and hit the books.

In other words, you can’t back up your opinion with anything but *another *false accusation and withdrawal? Well, considering how you have done nothing but dig yourself in deeper and deeper with each post, the decision to stop responding was likely the Holy Ghost trying to save your pride later on.

Your posts reveal that it is you who rejects that promise of Christ.

When you’re ready to cite a Catholic document supporting your interpretation feel free to post again.
 
latinmasslover said:
Unfortunately, it seems you don’t have time to study your own religion, so you ought to drop this site totally and hit the books.

In other words, you can’t back up your opinion with anything but *another *false accusation and withdrawal? Well, considering how you have done nothing but dig yourself in deeper and deeper with each post, the decision to stop responding was likely the Holy Ghost trying to save your pride later on.

Your posts reveal that it is you who rejects that promise of Christ.

When you’re ready to cite a Catholic document supporting your interpretation feel free to post again.
Click to expand...
So, under your ruling I can post again? Are you serious?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top