That is not only absurd but very offensive.Originally Posted by Tim Hayes
the reality is that you should be telling people that homosexual is the equivalent of paedophile.
2, Sexual disorders, such as lust, therefore interfere with our ability to practice the great commandment.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. Here are some excerpts from the most recent Bishop’s document on the Pastoral Care of Homosexuals.
- Chastity is the mastery of our sexuality and integration of it into our self so that it is never expressed as selfish lust. Chastity is not simply refraining from sex.
Therefore, merely to experience disordered passions should not be a cause for despair. This is the common starting point for people at the beginning of training in virtue. The passions are not fixed, unchanging obstacles to moral action. They do not simply have to be repressed in
order for one to act morally. Repeated good actions will modify the passions that one experiences. In fact, passions that have been properly disposed aid one in acting well.19 **It may not always be possible to reach the point where one’s passions are so well ordered that one is always spontaneously moved to act rightly. In such cases, to do what is right and rational will involve a healthy restraining of some desires. **Nevertheless, through persistent effort we can at
least reduce the resistance of our passions to acting well.20
In this effort to train our desires to be in accord with God’s
The acquisition of virtues requires a sustained effort and repeated actions. As the ancient philosophers recognized, the more one repeats good actions, the more one’s passions (such as love, anger, and fear) become shaped in accord with good action. It becomes easier to perform good actions. Unfortunately, the opposite is also true: the more one repeats bad actions, the more one’s passions become shaped in accord with bad action. It becomes more difficult to perform good actions, for the disordered passions provide resistance. If one resolves to follow the path of virtue, however, one can make progress. By avoiding bad actions and by repeating good actions one can train one’s passions so that they become more spontaneously disposed toward good action. One eventually acquires and perfects the basic virtues of prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance./
Based on the Bishop’s document and the Catechism, folks who identify as SSA but are living chastely are required to avoid “bad actions” and through this practice they may expect to grow in sanctity and grace, as we all do. I don’t think any of us, heterosexual or homosexual, start out on the journey of chastity without first struggling just to “refrain”. However, with repeated “good actions”, we learn to integrate ourselves fully as chastity becomes a part of who we are as Christians.
Michael,I just read through most of the thread.
I am a practicing Catholic as best as I can and here are my thoughts on Chastity and sexuality.
2, Sexual disorders, such as lust, therefore interfere with our ability to practice the great commandment.
- Sexuality impacts every part of our life and our ability to love even platonicaly. This puts the vice of lust in close opposition to the great commandment.
Well that’s my 2 cents. I am a 41 year old single male heterosexual and I have to live celibate until or unless I am graced with a marriage vocation at this late stage. For me it is a struggle, but I agree with the Church’s definition of Chastity: Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being because even though I am celibate I have a strong sexuality and without chastity I would have more problems e.g. with custody of the eyes. With chastity I am motivated to love freely from a position of interior strength and security in my self and in my relations to all around me. How good I am at this virtue very much impacts how loving I am in all my relationships.
- Chastity is the mastery of our sexuality and integration of it into our self so that it is never expressed as selfish lust. Chastity is not simply refraining from sex.
- We are all called to be perfect, so we are all called to the virtue of chastity. If we have to some degree a disordered sexuality–I would be surprised if that was not the vast majority of people after all the first thing we did was sew up some fig leaves—we should for love of Christ seek ways to heal our disorder.
- How one strives to heal their disorder is to a degree a prudential decision (e.g. mutilation or new age balogna as attempts to heal would of themselves be sinful methods), but the need to attempt also springs from the virtue of hope and the belief in God’s mercy. One could suggest therapy or drugs, but one could also suggest prayer or Eucharistic adoration or contemplation of heroic Saints’ chastity.
- The idea that there is no hope even to walk toward Christian perfection is an awful and horrible sin against the mercy of Christ. I am frightened for people who believe that disordered sexuality is immutable, This is despair. Please pray if you are here or please pray that you can pray for hope if you are here. Just do not stay in despair.
- Even if we make no progress, this too is merit if we hope in the Lord. No prayer is wasted. God loves us and we must trust in Him. If we keep trying to understand the virtue of chastity and keep trying to practice it, we can expect to better live out Christ’s calling and we can expect to increase our freedom (sin enslaves) and be happier and be more of a light on a hill.
- In places of great sexual immorality (like our culture today) it may be a very holy witness to strive to master the complex virtue of chastity, even if you interiorly feel as if you are not progressing. Such people are witnesses to the faith in their loving platonic relationships even in their marriages to everyone around them by their actions alone they proclaim the glory of Christ!
Thank you for debating in this thread everyone. It has given me much pause and hope in my own life to reflect.
God bless you all.
michael
I find it interesting that in attempting to refute me, you use the same line of argument that the heretic John J. McNeill uses in his attempts to justify same-sex sexual activity. (1) To both you and Fr. McNeill, I reply that it is reductionist in the extreme to believe that the only articles of faith binding upon the consciences of the faithful are those that have been defined ex cathedra. So, while neither this definition nor any of the Magisterial documents that specifically refer to homosexuality are ex cathedra proclamations, they are most certainly binding upon the faithful. Indeed, that this definition of chastity was the one chosen to be in the definitive summation of the faith that the Catechism is, tends to give it more than a little bit of weight.Is it ex cathedra? Was this particular definition intended to be formally defined? . . .
No, you just don’t want to deal with an albeit infrequent occurence and that sort of discussion would necessarily force you to leave your emotional,almost bigoted ranting and come around to a full and open discussion. You don’t just dismiss someone who is in a bind such as this with a wave of your hand. That is hardly Christian. She’s raising a viable point to consider. Furthermore, whether a society openly accepts homosexuality or hides it behind secret doors, we all know it goes back to ancient Biblical times (see for example, Noah and his son) and no society escapes it. Perhaps by bringing it out into the open we can figure it all out quietly, without all the hysterics. Dirty little secrets are no longer dirty when they meet the light of day. WWJD? He’d love them and work with them. He certainly would not show them the back of his hand.Your situation is unique and outside of the bounds of what I want to discussion.
Except, it’s really not about choosing to be gay, is it? With the availability of reparative therapy, it’s more about the choice to remain that way. As for coming out of the closet, any turmoil that one goes through is brought upon oneself. There is no need to confide in anyone this struggle outside of the confessional or the therapist’s office. If one has the sense to keep a secret this disorder, one need not fear being the victim of any so-called “hate crime.”Choosing to be gay? Why would anyone choose to be gay? Do you understand the emotional turmoil that those coming out of the closet go through? Are you aware of the anti-gay hate crimes that occur within North America?
I was beaten weekly at school pretty much. I never told anyone I was not-straight at that time, I never even really thought about it myself. I didn’t know. Due to my odd hormones, I never really thought about sex until I was about 18. It had nothing to do with ‘outness’. They simply beat me because I was perceived as gay and my voice.There is no need to confide in anyone this struggle outside of the confessional or the therapist’s office. If one has the sense to keep a secret this disorder, one need not fear being the victim of any so-called “hate crime.”
Enquiring minds need to know this… are you just a troll? I’d like to think the sort of attitude you display can’t possibly be real, but I’m unfortunately not certain.Except, it’s really not about choosing to be gay, is it? With the availability of reparative therapy, it’s more about the choice to remain that way. As for coming out of the closet, any turmoil that one goes through is brought upon oneself. There is no need to confide in anyone this struggle outside of the confessional or the therapist’s office. If one has the sense to keep a secret this disorder, one need not fear being the victim of any so-called “hate crime.”
I not only find this remark callous, I can not image Jesus ever participate in bulling any individual in such a human for of hell.Except, it’s really not about choosing to be gay, is it? With the availability of reparative therapy, it’s more about the choice to remain that way. As for coming out of the closet, any turmoil that one goes through is brought upon oneself. There is no need to confide in anyone this struggle outside of the confessional or the therapist’s office. If one has the sense to keep a secret this disorder, one need not fear being the victim of any so-called “hate crime.”
One cannot give any credence to the fantasy Jesus of one’s imagination if the only function that Jesus serves is to comfort one in one’s disorders and never scold.I not only find this remark callous, I can not image Jesus ever participate in bulling any individual in such a human for of hell.
You’ll forgive me, but I find this post of yours confused. As I read it, you perceived something wrong about you because you did not know any people with same sex attractions and because you did not hate such people. Perhaps you meant to say that you thought something was wrong with you because you had same-sex attractions of your own? Then you began to feel better because you heard a psychiatrist speak on the homosexual issue and assumed what he said to be true since other psychiatrists said the same thing. From this I am supposed to glean what the “real subject” is and then “stop.”Other Eric
Some years ago I went through a phase in which I wondered if something was wrong with me, because I did not know who if anybody was homosexual nor did I hate anybody for being a homosexual. How could others “know” who were homosexual? Believe me I really had not a clue. So maybe something was wrong with me, as so many others spoke with great authority on the homosexual issue. Then one day I heard a psychiatrist address that very issue, what they said made sense. Since then I have heard other psychiatrist say the same. Other Eric I think you know what the real subject is, and it is past time to stop.
lol, I’m kinda glad to be an observer in this thread and see other people thinking the same as me.This is without doubt, the most stupid, ignorant, offence, unpleasant, nasty comment that I have ever read. What is wrong with you???