Tis_Bearself
Patron
I feel like we have these same arguments over and over. I’ve taken to just changing seats if a kid is out of control because nobody is listening/ nobody cares.
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gracepoole
Guest
OP, you know your wife can read the readings in advance of Mass, right?
You attend a quieter Mass that works for your family. Great! Leave it at that.
You attend a quieter Mass that works for your family. Great! Leave it at that.
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Carmelite1983
Guest
Yes we do, I was just curious about other people’s opinions.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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kgmlg
Guest
I really should get my mom in this forum.
We were the wildest kids on the block, I would even say on the island
, there was no stopping us anywhere. But….I do not remember what she did or how she did it, but at mass, we were straight arrows. Little angels……outside, our definition was the exact opposite.
But yes, I do not really mind kids misbehaving as long as their parents are really trying to quiet them down…what I really mind are parents who do nothing, and do not care that their kids are going haywire at mass. If they try to calm them down, I am good with that and sympathise. Kids don’t usually know any better, adults should however.
We were the wildest kids on the block, I would even say on the island
, there was no stopping us anywhere. But….I do not remember what she did or how she did it, but at mass, we were straight arrows. Little angels……outside, our definition was the exact opposite. But yes, I do not really mind kids misbehaving as long as their parents are really trying to quiet them down…what I really mind are parents who do nothing, and do not care that their kids are going haywire at mass. If they try to calm them down, I am good with that and sympathise. Kids don’t usually know any better, adults should however.
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Uriel1
Guest
I went to mass every Sunday and Benediction on Thursday from as young as I remember; so did many kids. That was pre-Vatican 11, too.
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Bluebright
Guest
Well I think you have done the best thing in going to another mass. You have also talked to the priest. I see his point in that it’s nice to have children at mass, better that they are there and noisy than not there, by far. Children should definitely be taken to mass, from birth right through, in my opinion. I think they should learn to be respectful of God from an early age.
But also the parents should make an effort to control the children out of respect for others and God, ie loving your God and your neighbours, those two commandments. Especially older children and prolonged outcries. A lot of churches (at least here in England) have ‘family masses’ so that children can be contained more in one mass. Our church has this and the older children even do the readings once a month and all come up for the Lords prayer and hold the priests hand and are involved in the mass. If you dont go to this mass, then less children are at the other masses which helps. This helps people tolerate them I think. I always think that I should just put up with it and offer it up to God. But I can understand your frustration. I’d suggest going to the Saturday mass as you’ve been doing or asking your priest to email you his homilies and reading the gospel before attending and praying thinking about it so you are prepared. Also you may try getting there early to get a seat nearer the front or a speaker so as to best hear what is being said (or away from those places where the children usually sit). Also try the priests advice (even though you are annoyed with him) of tuning them out. Offer the suffering you undergo to God and ask Him to help you tune out the people not controlling their children and recognise their right to be there too. Remember how much Jesus loved children and told the disciples off for trying to stop them coming too Him. Think how Jesus is sitting up there in the tabernacle loving the sound of children, that might help you be patient with them, it helps me.
But also the parents should make an effort to control the children out of respect for others and God, ie loving your God and your neighbours, those two commandments. Especially older children and prolonged outcries. A lot of churches (at least here in England) have ‘family masses’ so that children can be contained more in one mass. Our church has this and the older children even do the readings once a month and all come up for the Lords prayer and hold the priests hand and are involved in the mass. If you dont go to this mass, then less children are at the other masses which helps. This helps people tolerate them I think. I always think that I should just put up with it and offer it up to God. But I can understand your frustration. I’d suggest going to the Saturday mass as you’ve been doing or asking your priest to email you his homilies and reading the gospel before attending and praying thinking about it so you are prepared. Also you may try getting there early to get a seat nearer the front or a speaker so as to best hear what is being said (or away from those places where the children usually sit). Also try the priests advice (even though you are annoyed with him) of tuning them out. Offer the suffering you undergo to God and ask Him to help you tune out the people not controlling their children and recognise their right to be there too. Remember how much Jesus loved children and told the disciples off for trying to stop them coming too Him. Think how Jesus is sitting up there in the tabernacle loving the sound of children, that might help you be patient with them, it helps me.
blackforest
Well-known member
I feel like I can’t win with the cry room issue.
“Why do parents take their children to the cry room? It’s actually a rumpus room, and the children miss participating in the Mass.”
“Wow! That kid is really fussy! Why aren’t her parents taking her to the cry room?”
With my ADHD kid, I spent much of Mass in the narthex, where I couldn’t hear anything due to a poor sound system and noisy ADULTS. There was no nursery. It felt like I was just there for drive-up-window McEucharist.
“Why do parents take their children to the cry room? It’s actually a rumpus room, and the children miss participating in the Mass.”
“Wow! That kid is really fussy! Why aren’t her parents taking her to the cry room?”
With my ADHD kid, I spent much of Mass in the narthex, where I couldn’t hear anything due to a poor sound system and noisy ADULTS. There was no nursery. It felt like I was just there for drive-up-window McEucharist.
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babochka
Guest
So, my husband is this parent. :hugs:
It isn’t that he doesn’t want to make kids behave, it is that he’s kind of oblivious. He has this amazing and enviable ability to focus no matter what is going on around him . Baby ripping up a pew book ? He doesn’t notice. Kid standing on her head next to him? He doesn’t notice. Two kids fighting over who gets to stand next to him? He doesn’t notice . Toddler undressing herself in the pew? Thankfully, the older kids noticed and put a stop to that one. It used to embarrass me and infuriate me. If I had to take someone out to the cry room, I had this very painful view from the perfect vantage point. I saw everything and I was powerless to stop it. We’ve passed those days, thanks be to God. Our youngest is 3 and generally well behaved in church. If she is feeling restless and needs a break, I can send her out with one of my older kids. My older kids are still known to squabble a bit and vie for the best seat, but for the most part I only have to keep an eye on the three year old for disruptive behavior.
And my hard-working, prayerful husband who is better than me in so many ways continues to be oblivious.
He isn’t a horrible person who is out to ruin anybody’s experience at Mass. He just doesn’t notice. Your frustration, my anger and confusion, or anybody else’s isn’t really going to change that. That is a hard lesson that I’ve had to learn in 16 years of parenting with him.
So try to focus on the good when you’re frustrated with parents who just won’t do anything about their children’s behavior.
Remember that they, like you, are struggling to be faithful Catholics. They come to church every week. They bring their young children, which is no small feat. We all have blind spots in our lives
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babochka
Guest
There is just no perfect answer to these years of having young children. There is no way to meet everybody’s needs. We do the best we can. My oldest is 16 and my youngest is 3, so we’re almost through it.
My constant prayer has been that I will remember how very difficult these years were when I’m not going through it anymore. Because I honestly think that parents forget and have only good memories of their perfect angels in church.
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DeniseNY
Guest
My preference would be for total silence during the Liturgy (I’m also bothered by excessive coughing). But here’s the thing, I know that’s unreasonable and impossible. There just has to be common sense on both sides. People who are bothered by the simple, normal sounds of children have to suck it up because parents have a right to bring their kids to Liturgy. But parents have to also realize that when the sounds get to a level where it’s causing a disturbance and being disruptive, it’s time to utilize the cry room or take a little breather outside.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
kgmlg:
So, my husband is this parent. :hugs:
It isn’t that he doesn’t want to make kids behave, it is that he’s kind of oblivious. He has this amazing and enviable ability to focus no matter what is going on around him . Baby ripping up a pew book ? He doesn’t notice. Kid standing on her head next to him? He doesn’t notice. Two kids fighting over who gets to stand next to him? He doesn’t notice . Toddler undressing herself in the pew?
This is my husband, too! Totally oblivious! I’m so glad it’s not just me!
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QwertyGirl
Guest
My husband would be oblivious, too, if he didn’t recognize his personal responsiblity to raise a child who behaved properly. He wouldn’t take a pass on that, so he learned to pay attention. Thank goodness for that. Kids do better when they receive a united mesage from both parents.
Personally, if a kid can’t behave in a movie theater or in a restaurant I believe it means they haven’t developed the skills to behave in church either. I wouldn’t take them there unless I felt comfortable getting up and taking them out as I would in the theater or at the restaurant if their behavior was inappropriate. As a parent, I would feel terrible that my kid cost someone else the peace they most likely come looking for at church. I am talking about kids under the age of 5 here. If a kid with no special needs, 5 or over, can’t sit through Mass without misbehaving then that is on the parents 100% and it is a parenting issue (not one of the child lacking maturity).
It really is about looking out for your neighbors and being considerate.
Personally, if a kid can’t behave in a movie theater or in a restaurant I believe it means they haven’t developed the skills to behave in church either. I wouldn’t take them there unless I felt comfortable getting up and taking them out as I would in the theater or at the restaurant if their behavior was inappropriate. As a parent, I would feel terrible that my kid cost someone else the peace they most likely come looking for at church. I am talking about kids under the age of 5 here. If a kid with no special needs, 5 or over, can’t sit through Mass without misbehaving then that is on the parents 100% and it is a parenting issue (not one of the child lacking maturity).
It really is about looking out for your neighbors and being considerate.
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Pattylt
Guest
I’m going to tell a true story that may help when a screaming child anywhere is causing you to to lose your cool!
I had to perform phlebotomy (blood draws) on ER patients. Often these were children and no one likes their blood drawn, especially children that have to be held down. They scream their heads off and I am usually able to completely tune it out. One day they brought in a 5 year old drowning victim that they were desperately trying to save her life. She was comatose. As one doctor is trying to get a heart rhythm going and another is trying to insert a tube down her throat, I am trying to get blood from her arm. She isn’t making a sound and it was the most awful phlebotomy I’ve ever done. I left the room, broke into tears and a nurse came up to me to see what matter was. I told her, “she didn’t cry”. It was all I could say while blubbering but she knew exactly what I meant and said to me, “I know, I NEVER mind a crying child because I know that usually means they’ll live”. We hugged for a minute and to this day when I hear a crying child I think of that day and that THAT child lives.
Just something to keep in mind.
I had to perform phlebotomy (blood draws) on ER patients. Often these were children and no one likes their blood drawn, especially children that have to be held down. They scream their heads off and I am usually able to completely tune it out. One day they brought in a 5 year old drowning victim that they were desperately trying to save her life. She was comatose. As one doctor is trying to get a heart rhythm going and another is trying to insert a tube down her throat, I am trying to get blood from her arm. She isn’t making a sound and it was the most awful phlebotomy I’ve ever done. I left the room, broke into tears and a nurse came up to me to see what matter was. I told her, “she didn’t cry”. It was all I could say while blubbering but she knew exactly what I meant and said to me, “I know, I NEVER mind a crying child because I know that usually means they’ll live”. We hugged for a minute and to this day when I hear a crying child I think of that day and that THAT child lives.
Just something to keep in mind.
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Mi_Rose
Guest
Kids who look like should behave may have ADHD. I had seven of those. It took until they were in school for most of them to behave most of the time.
Should I have had fewer kids? That seems to be what some are suggesting. If I left them home until they behaved they would go to First Communion prep with maybe a year of masses under their belts. That is not good.
Somebody famous once said “Let the childten come to me.”
We tried all different types of discipline. Different ones worked on different kids.
To those who say the parents don’t try how do you know? Do you go home with them! Maybe the consequences come after mass.
I know there were times my kids misbehaved in mass but it was 7 versus 2 so like I said before should I have had just two kids. A Church that forbids ABC should accept the messiness that sometimes comes with large families.
Should I have had fewer kids? That seems to be what some are suggesting. If I left them home until they behaved they would go to First Communion prep with maybe a year of masses under their belts. That is not good.
Somebody famous once said “Let the childten come to me.”
We tried all different types of discipline. Different ones worked on different kids.
To those who say the parents don’t try how do you know? Do you go home with them! Maybe the consequences come after mass.
I know there were times my kids misbehaved in mass but it was 7 versus 2 so like I said before should I have had just two kids. A Church that forbids ABC should accept the messiness that sometimes comes with large families.
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Allegra
Guest
My daughter is difficult in Mass. She becomes bored and tries to entertain herself in inappropriate ways. She becomes interested and points things out and asks questions in a LOUD voice. I don’t let her out of the pew, but she does pace back and forth sometimes. Sitting still is very difficult for her, even during activities that she particularly likes. The two times we have the most struggle with her is Mass and mealtimes, because she hates being confined to a seat. Otherwise, she is pretty well-behaved.
My thoughts on the subject are, unless the kid is literally screaming for a sustained period of time, throwing things, or touching you or your belongings, you don’t really have much to whine about. Babbling 2yos? They’re two. They babble. An older kid gets upset for a second and fusses. Whatever. They fuss. THey have actual feelings and sometimes express them at inappropriate times. I’m perfectly fine with whiney adults being in the cry room. If you’re going to cry, that’s the place to go.
Our cry room is not the place to take an ill-behaved child who is old enough to know better. It’s a reward for bad behavior. There are toys in there. People are giving school-aged kids tablets. It’s a free-for-all. You don’t teach kids to act right in Mass by taking them to a playground if they don’t.
Furthermore, the fact that you don’t “see” me smack my kid in the middle of Mass, which I assume is what you are wanting to see, doesn’t mean she doesn’t get discipline. We are very strict and if she doesn’t behave reasonably, she doesn’t get TV or art supplies for the week, or she misses fun activities that were planned. Parents often have to use their best judgement as to how they react to bad behavior in what is supposed to by a quiet environment. SOmetimes reacting or “disciplining” will cause a much bigger distraction (aka. meltdown) than just shushing and “looks”. THat doesn’t mean a consequence isn’t coming.
My thoughts on the subject are, unless the kid is literally screaming for a sustained period of time, throwing things, or touching you or your belongings, you don’t really have much to whine about. Babbling 2yos? They’re two. They babble. An older kid gets upset for a second and fusses. Whatever. They fuss. THey have actual feelings and sometimes express them at inappropriate times. I’m perfectly fine with whiney adults being in the cry room. If you’re going to cry, that’s the place to go.
Our cry room is not the place to take an ill-behaved child who is old enough to know better. It’s a reward for bad behavior. There are toys in there. People are giving school-aged kids tablets. It’s a free-for-all. You don’t teach kids to act right in Mass by taking them to a playground if they don’t.
Furthermore, the fact that you don’t “see” me smack my kid in the middle of Mass, which I assume is what you are wanting to see, doesn’t mean she doesn’t get discipline. We are very strict and if she doesn’t behave reasonably, she doesn’t get TV or art supplies for the week, or she misses fun activities that were planned. Parents often have to use their best judgement as to how they react to bad behavior in what is supposed to by a quiet environment. SOmetimes reacting or “disciplining” will cause a much bigger distraction (aka. meltdown) than just shushing and “looks”. THat doesn’t mean a consequence isn’t coming.
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giuseppe96
Guest
It’s not really feasible today. Used to before the 70s, Catholic families usually lived within walking distance of each other. So I imagine that a parent could leave their toddler with a neighbor or relative who had already been to Mass or was planning on going later.
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babochka
Guest
The need to care for infants does excuse a person from the Sunday obligation, but what about that adult’s own spiritual needs? Is it really reasonable to deprive a person, usually a mother, from the opportunity to pray, worship and receive the Eucharist for years on end because young children are not welcome?
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Mi_Rose
Guest
No. It took so long to write and yours was the last comment when I started so…
blackforest
Well-known member
Yea, it’s a mixed bag. Sometimes we HAVE to make use of the cry room. But then when my 3-year-old discovered that his friends hang out back there, he was tugging my sleeve to go every Sunday.
blackforest
Well-known member
Exactly.
Honestly, what bothers me - as much as noisy children bother other people - is when I arrive at Mass and want to pray in silence while every adult around me is gabbing in the sanctuary.
I keep having to remind myself that it’s out of my control. Mass is an experience of community, and I can’t place individual-like expectations on an entire community. There are other opportunities for silent prayer - at home, in nature, during Adoration, etc. So I just keep my pre-Mass prayer short and sweet.
I do wonder how many adults who are so critical of children are willing to do their part and keep quiet before Mass. We grown-ups have more self-restraint and impulse control!
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