Loud children at Mass. thoughts?

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I find shushing but not actually bothering to do anything more annoying. At my old parish there was this family with 2 school age kids who literally talked and played noisily throughout mass. They got the odd shush when really mum or dad should have been taking them outside and telling them if they aren’t going to be quiet there will be a consequence.
 
We have aurini-missa, meaning “mass for young children”
So we don’t have young children in our masses. All church in Korea are structured like it- but in cases in masses for minorities, such as foreigners and small villagers, this could be a problem.
The reason why the aurini-missa was developed is to better accomodate children but there has been a growing voice in Korea that this will be deleted.
 
When I was a young mother I was told that my shushing brought more attention to my kid than his noise. I developed a system of angry glares and basic sign language that usually worked. Pointing down for kneel or sit, putting up 5 fingers and counting them down and things like that.
 
My point wasn’t “shushing”, which can be a brief quick sound or even a gesture, that was just an example.

My point was the main complaint is often parents doing nothing in response to bad behavior. So if you are doing something to correct the behavior most of these complaints aren’t directed at you.
 
KathleenT said:
My point was the main complaint is often parents doing nothing in response to bad behavior. So if you are doing something to correct the behavior most of these complaints aren’t directed at you.
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I just wonder how well the bystander is equipped to determine that (as long as we’re not doing Happy Meals and Moana in the cry room).
 
For example, we’re getting much improved behavior from Baby Girl–but if you didn’t know us and we hadn’t had an extended chat on the subject, you’d think that we were letting Baby Girl be a total heathen.

It just happens to be the case that the stuff she is doing now (playing with fidget toys, flailing her arms around and an occasional verbal outburst) is way better than what she was doing in church a few weeks ago.

Barring obviously unacceptable parental behavior (like Allegra’s Happy Meal family), I think it’s most charitable to assume that the parents are doing something (even if you can’t detect any activity on their part). After all, shouldn’t parents ideally be correcting their children in a way that will be discreet and imperceptible? I’m not confident, for example, that I’d be able to see Mi_Rose’s hand signals if sitting behind them in the pew.
 
You wouldn’t see my hand signals because the point was for only my children to see them.
Sometimes their consequence was not going out for donuts after mass and you wouldn’t see that either.
 
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This is definitely something that bothers my wife and I when going to church, but really it comes down to us forcing ourselves to tune out the noise and focus on the reason we came to church. I can’t control others actions, but I most definitely can control what I get out of being at church.
 
If the person is unable to determine if you are doing your best…why do you care what they think?

Should everyone be more charitable? Of course. But we can’t make people do that.

But if you are complaining people are giving you the stink eye, I was suggesting that using your body language to convey you are trying to deal with the child might improve how others react to you and your family. Do you have to use your body language to do so? Of course not.

I am using “you” in a general sense here.

I will say, as a fellow parent, I -wish- (wish, not demand or insist) more parents would take an action at the time to show a behavior was unacceptable because kids watch kids. When kids see other kids do something and not get in trouble they often have to try it. I have seen behavior fly at Mass that would have been shut down immediately at a park. That’s a bit messed up.
 
KathleenT said:
If the person is unable to determine if you are doing your best…why do you care what they think?
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A lot of young parents are going to encounter disapproval at Mass and not come back.
KathleenT said:
I have seen behavior fly at Mass that would have been shut down immediately at a park.
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Part of the reason for that is that the options for parents are a lot more limited at Mass. You can’t have a big discussion in the middle of Mass, whereas you could at the playground, and there is no Sunday park obligation. Also, it’s not expected that you stay at the park 60 minutes and do so perfectly quietly.

Basically, it’s apples and oranges.
 
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KathleenT said:
My point was the main complaint is often parents doing nothing in response to bad behavior. So if you are doing something to correct the behavior most of these complaints aren’t directed at you.
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Often though, the best way to deal with a particular child might be by ignoring him. For instance, my son might be a little bit whiny- not actually crying but just having a hard time dealing with the crowded Mass and noise. He covers his ears (a sensory thing). If I tell him “stop!” or shush him (which I do not do because he is allowed to cover his ears- it helps him cope and I don’t care if people don’t like it) he would immediately start bawling loudly. It’s better to just let him deal as best he can than incite a loud meltdown. Anyone around me wouldn’t know that though, and so they may think I’m just a bad parent who lets her kid get away with stuff and doesn’t care about the other parishioners.

Even when noticeably trying, parents do get nasty looks and comments. People on this thread have said kids should be just left at home- they aren’t welcome until they can behave well enough.
 
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The family behind me had a toddler sitting on their lap that kicked the back of my pew nearly the entire mass Sunday…

Thump, thump. thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump…😂🤣😂

I thought to myself this kid is gonna be the next next Neil Peart…they had incredible consistency of rhythm.

However, I am here to report that I made it out alive, and suffered no long term consequences and am happy the parents brought lil’ Kicky (I named the kid about halfway through) to mass…when it came time for the sign of peace I offered it without a glare nor sneer. Kicky did not seem impressed by this.

On the plus side lil Kicky’s kicking distracted me from the other babies that parents had to take out during mass as they squealed their hearts out…the priest went on, life went on, we all made it out unscathed.
 
A little girl wanted me to kiss her teddy bear.

She was so cute. I did not kiss her bear but blew it a kiss instead.

She deemed it good enough.
 
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It was reported to me that yesterday our 2yr old sat through the entirety of Mass for the first time.

Now we’re looking for a trend.
 
Loud children at mass are a joyful noise raised unto the Lord. Children are loud, and children are a sign that the Church is alive, and growing. Silent old people are a sign of a dying Church.

Rejoice in the Lord Always. I will say it again, Rejoice!
 
Xantippe said:
Part of the reason for that is that the options for parents are a lot more limited at Mass. You can’t have a big discussion in the middle of Mass, whereas you could at the playground, and there is no Sunday park obligation. Also, it’s not expected that you stay at the park 60 minutes and do so perfectly quietly.

Basically, it’s apples and oranges
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So very true.
 
My grandson just turned 5. He just was baptized and likes to go to mass with me, but he can only take about 30 minutes. Then he will start crawling along the pews, or moving the footrests, or making car noises – just enough to drive me crazy. Sometimes he will fall asleep halfway through.
I suppose I could leave him at home for a couple more years, but I hate to do that. I’m not sure how much time I will have to spend with him, and want him to be accustomed to church.

I’m thinking of maybe not going until mass is half over, as he enjoys the hand shaking and going up for a blessing at the Eucharist.
What would you-all think of arriving late?
 
My hat is off to both of you. This is a common topic at mass.

Couple different thoughts.

When my wife and I encounter this, usually the people doing it need a lot of prayer. We pray for them during mass if there is a lot of distraction. We feel personally involved.

I heartily agree. When my wife and I have children, we will teach them reverence and respect during mass. This is very important. We are there to spend time with the Lord in quiet and reverence, not bring all the noise and stress of lives. But to check it at the door & refresh for the day or the week.

Another thought is that we all give praise & worship differently. Children participate in a different way. But, on the other hand, they have a cry room for a reason and it can be distracting from hearing the readings.

We have noticed that certain masses have a greater or lesser degree of reverence and discipline as a whole from the families. Is there a mass that you have found where there is less commotion and distraction than the others.

I would seriously pray for the parish for this specific intention. When you pray as individuals or as a family, I would add the intention of reverence and quiet in the church during masses. It is partly happening because the pastor is allowing it. Pray big for the pastor/ priests and for the parish. They probably need it.

Pray for good priests & the pastor. If the priests are holy, the congregation becomes holier. I have noticed in churches, where the priests are reverent and holy, the mass is very quiet, almost deafening.

Pray, pray pray for the things you care about in your daily life. My wife and I have found a good mass where there is a tremendous group reverence & the parishioners come with their best to mass. It is a true gift and blessing.

It is an opportunity to grow for all concerned. But within that, maybe draw towards the mass that best fits the level of reverence you guys bring as a family.

It is a true blessing that your family cares about this. I care greatly about listening to the readings. I know how that feels when there is commotion distracting from the readings.

Pray for those who vex you. God will bless them and you. This is how pearls are made.

See Gods grace wherever it flourishes.

God bless
 
Xantippe said:
Right. It’s the sitting quietly for 60 minutes that is the primary obstacle.
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The only Mass I can think of where we sit quietly for 60 minutes would be an Easter Vigil with a very large number of people being received.

Mass happens in bursts of quiet then activity.

First is a song.

Most parishes use the same 15 or so hymns over and over. Learn those songs. Buy them on iTunes or Amazon, put them in a play list and sing them around the house. Teach these songs to your kids (kids learn so much with music).

This way, most of the time, your child is going to know the songs and sing along.

That first part of Mass is standing so the child can wiggle, sing, stand and stretch.

This gets you to the readings. You are only going to have maybe 10 minutes TOPS where you sit and be quiet, then it is time to STAND UP again. There are motions and responses to say!

After the Gospel, you are going to have another 10 minutes of sitting still.

Another time to stand and we get to RESPOND to the prayers!

Another of those familiar hymns to sing along, and we also get to put some money in the offering!!

Then it is time for some quiet time, but, it is broken up with kneeling and responding and singing.

Don’t forget the kid’s favorite, the Sign of Peace!!

About 3 more minutes of stillness until we again sing and get to walk down front with mom/dad.

A couple more minutes of quiet and we sing another song! Do we know this one, or is it one we need to learn this next week?
 
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