Love thy neighbor, does this include thy enemy?

[yellow8yellowM]

Here is my question, but please understand that I am still in RCIA and have a lot to learn…

We are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves, but how far does this go? Should we love our neighbor who we know is evil? Should we love our enemy?

I have read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis and his opinion is that we should love everybody, even the evil, because that person may just have just drawn the short straw and gotten an evil body (I am very broadly paraphrasing here). Your chance at entering Heaven is relative to your situation. The people with the easiest lives and/or the best genetic endowments have a greater responsibility to do good than the people, for example, that were born with Schizophrenia and had abusive parents.

My interpretation of all of this is that we should hope and pray for every single soul to enter Heaven, even the ones who appear to be the most evil. Our commandment is to pray for them and to love them and it is Jesus’ role to judge them when the time comes.

Am I way off base here?

 

[bmullins]

C.S. Lewis had it right. When he discusses specifically the love my neighbor part he reminds us that we have to love our neighbor as ourselves. Then he goes on to say, and pray I do it justice, that sometimes we don’t particularly like ourselves. I agree with that quite a bit. When I look back at the man I’ve been and some of the things I’ve done… there are times I don’t like me at all. I’ve not always been a good person, sometimes down right mean. But I’ve never wanted bad for me. I’ve never prayed for bad things, I’ve always wanted better. In fact, many of those times I prayed that God would make me the man he wants me to be.

As C.S. Lewis puts it, that’s what it means to love your neighbor as yourself. That even if you don’t like them, even if you can’t stand them, you want better for them. You pray for them that God will make them into the man that He wants them be. You pray for their salvation, and that God will do good things for them… because that’s what you would want for yourself in those shoes.

It doesn’t mean you’ve got to hang out with them, or go over with your bible and some capris sun and be buddies. It does mean that even those people you can’t stand, even if they want to kill you, that you will love them. That you will pray for them.

The story of the good Samaritan puts it even in starker contrast. The story talks about a Jew who has been beaten and left beside the road. Several of his own country men, people who should have stopped to help their fellow compatriot, just walked on by. Yet his enemy, the Samaritan, stopped and had mercy on him. He picked him, cleaned up his wounds, took him to a hotel and paid for a room for him. Told them to feed him and take care of them, and that if it cost more than he left, he’d pay more when he got back. These were enemies! These were people who weren’t supposed to like each other at all…

Jesus was teaching us that THAT is what we as Christians are to do. If our enemy is fallen, we are to reach out and try to help them. If they won’t accept it, then you have done what you can. But we still have to offer.

 

[djd83]

We have to remember that some of Jesus’ last words on the cross were “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing” with ‘them’ being those who put him to death. Jesus showed this love of neighbor to the very end.

To the OP, congrats on finding the way, may God bless you on your journey, and welcome home .

 

[ConstantineTG]

Here is my question, but please understand that I am still in RCIA and have a lot to learn…

We are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves, but how far does this go? Should we love our neighbor who we know is evil? Should we love our enemy?

I have read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis and his opinion is that we should love everybody, even the evil, because that person may just have just drawn the short straw and gotten an evil body (I am very broadly paraphrasing here). Your chance at entering Heaven is relative to your situation. The people with the easiest lives and/or the best genetic endowments have a greater responsibility to do good than the people, for example, that were born with Schizophrenia and had abusive parents.

My interpretation of all of this is that we should hope and pray for every single soul to enter Heaven, even the ones who appear to be the most evil. Our commandment is to pray for them and to love them and it is Jesus’ role to judge them when the time comes.

Am I way off base here?

Read my signature

 

[Trishie]

Jesus said, in Matthew 5:44:
“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
:slapfight:

 

[IrishRush]

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Evan]

I have been taught that the definition of Love is

Desiring the best for the other

This should certainly apply to all we encounter (neighbors and enemies). We do what we can:

admonish the sinner … spiritual works of mercy
feed the hungry … physical works of mercy

in an attempt to do the best for the other.

 

[JoeBowen7]

Jesus said, in Matthew 5:44:
“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
:slapfight:

Suppose that you are at war and your enemy is shooting at you and your army compatriots. The enemy force is shooting from the east, and you and your allies are shooting from the west. From a practical standpoint, how would you love your enemy?
Or suppose that someone is armed and forcibly invading your house and is attempting to kidnap your child. How would you love your enemy in that case?

 

[Nelka]

Jesus said, in Matthew 5:44:
“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Della]

Suppose that you are at war and your enemy is shooting at you and your army compatriots. The enemy force is shooting from the east, and you and your allies are shooting from the west. From a practical standpoint, how would you love your enemy?
Or suppose that someone is armed and forcibly invading your house and is attempting to kidnap your child. How would you love your enemy in that case?

Loving an enemy is about not acting out of personal animosity, but remembering the other person was created by God and is loved by him. So, it does not refer to shooting another soldier in war, nor does it limit defending ones family from robbers. It means your intention should not be to kill out of hatred or in a deliberate attempt to do murder, which is malicious in motivation. Even with a burglar the idea is to incapacitate him not kill him, doing no more to him than is necessary to defend ones family and property.

 

[fakename]

Loving an enemy is about not acting out of personal animosity, but remembering the other person was created by God and is loved by him. So, it does not refer to shooting another soldier in war, nor does it limit defending ones family from robbers. It means your intention should not be to kill out of hatred or in a deliberate attempt to do murder, which is malicious in motivation. Even with a burglar the idea is to incapacitate him not kill him, doing no more to him than is necessary to defend ones family and property.

Well under some conditions one is certainly allowed to kill a burgler.

But also one must be willing under certain conditions, to help an enemy acquire food, shelter, moral values, etc. -things that all men need regardless of their good or bad qualities.
That’s really all that love of neighbor means.

 

[Della]

Well under some conditions one is certainly allowed to kill a burgler.

If that’s the only means by which you can keep him from harming yourself and others, I agree, and so do the laws of most communities and countries.

Absolutely. I love what G. K. Chesterson had to say about this: “The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.”

 

[johnnyjones]

Just don’t love your neighbor till his wife gets home.

 

[JoeBowen7]

Loving an enemy is about not acting out of personal animosity, but remembering the other person was created by God and is loved by him. So, it does not refer to shooting another soldier in war, nor does it limit defending ones family from robbers. It means your intention should not be to kill out of hatred or in a deliberate attempt to do murder, which is malicious in motivation. Even with a burglar the idea is to incapacitate him not kill him, doing no more to him than is necessary to defend ones family and property.

So if you are a soldier in a war, you love your enemy and kill him at the same time? This seems contradictory. If you love someone, you wouldn’t kill him, isn’t that right? Especially if your killing him inflicts tremendous pain and suffering as it would do in a war. So from a practical point of view, I honestly don;t see how you can love your enemy if you are a soldier in war and your enemy is shooting at you? The commandment to love your enemy does not seem to be very practical and really, does anyone follow it in the case of a war when the enemy is shooting at you?
The only way out, to sincerely and honestly keep the commandment to love your enemy, as far as I can see, is pacifism and non-violent resistance as was practiced by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi against the British.

 

[Della]

So if you are a soldier in a war, you love your enemy and kill him at the same time? This seems contradictory. If you love someone, you wouldn’t kill him, isn’t that right? Especially if your killing him inflicts tremendous pain and suffering as it would do in a war. So from a practical point of view, I honestly don;t see how you can love your enemy if you are a soldier in war and your enemy is shooting at you? The commandment to love your enemy does not seem to be very practical and really, does anyone follow it in the case of a war when the enemy is shooting at you?
The only way out, to sincerely and honestly keep the commandment to love your enemy, as far as I can see, is pacifism and non-violent resistance as was practiced by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi against the British.

I think you need to read the Catechism on this issue, if you haven’t. Christianity isn’t a pacifist religion in the sense you seem to be thinking. Yes, resolving political issues by political means is always preferable and should be the first resort. War is a last resort and sometimes must be waged to defend the innocent. Let’s take WWII for our example. Should we have loved our enemy, Hitler’s Germany, by letting him go on conquering country after country, putting people into concentration camps, forced labor camps, and killing people based on their ethnicity and inability to “fit in” to his agenda? Of course not.

And what about the individual soldiers? We shouldn’t have shot German soldiers, even if they personally had no bad intentions? Of course we had to–because by fighting for their country they were fighting for their leaders’ evil designs, even if they had no idea of what those designs were or agreed with them. It was the only way to stop a horrendous evil from continuing and growing. The most loving thing was to fight against Germany and its armies because no other means would have stopped it from devouring the world with its insane idealogy that they were superior to everyone else on earth.

Loving ones enemies refers to loving those who are a personal bother to you. It doesn’t mean letting rogue countries run riot over other countries or allowing terrorist to rule over us. Turning the other cheek is for personal insult and does not refer to waging a just war nor having to kill enemy combatants.

 

[JoeBowen7]

And what about the individual soldiers? We shouldn’t have shot German soldiers, even if they personally had no bad intentions? Of course we had to–because by fighting for their country they were fighting for their leaders’ evil designs, even if they had no idea of what those designs were or agreed with them.

But German soldiers are people and they are forced to fight. Otherwise they will be shot. How is it loving to be shot and to leave your family to suffer. How do you love the person, the German soldier by trying to kill him and inflict horrific pain and suffering on his person? It doesn’t sound too loving to me when you go around and effectively torture and kill another person just because he is an enemy soldier. The only way you can truly love that person, who is your enemy, is to refuse to inflict harm on him.
Soldiers are people, and many of them are Catholics. It doesn’t seem right to love your fellow Catholic by killing him and inflicting incredible suffering on him and to leave his children without a father. When you kill a child’s father, you do irreparable harm to the child. How is this loving to the child or loving to the person that you are killing?
I don’t see how you are loving your enemy in this case.
So the commandment to love your enemy seems impractical, unless you agree to follow the teachings of Gandhi.

 

[Evan]

But German soldiers are people and they are forced to fight. Otherwise they will be shot. How is it loving to be shot and to leave your family to suffer. How do you love the person, the German soldier by trying to kill him and inflict horrific pain and suffering on his person? It doesn’t sound too loving to me when you go around and effectively torture and kill another person just because he is an enemy soldier. The only way you can truly love that person, who is your enemy, is to refuse to inflict harm on him.
Soldiers are people, and many of them are Catholics. It doesn’t seem right to love your fellow Catholic by killing him and inflicting incredible suffering on him and to leave his children without a father. When you kill a child’s father, you do irreparable harm to the child. How is this loving to the child or loving to the person that you are killing?
I don’t see how you are loving your enemy in this case.
So the commandment to love your enemy seems impractical, unless you agree to follow the teachings of Gandhi.

Why do you think one must inflict horrific pain and suffering when you simply kill a person? If he is Catholic, and is going into battle, would he not go to confession first and be prepared to die? When you go into battle, be prepared. If he is fighting for evil, it is incumbent upon him to fight poorly and surrender if he has the opportunity.

You seem to have canonized as saints all the German soldiers. You assume all have families, children, and are good fathers (and are men).

You assume it is better for them to live in a society where they regularly have to round up their own people, perhaps their own children, and kill them than to have an enemy army fight to eliminate the regime and prevent such atrocities.

The cause of war is the evil present in society. To stop evil we may need to fight it. We can’t just wish it away. We can love a person by preventing them from doing evil. If this requires lethal force and they are prepared to go to heaven, then this is good.

 

[JoeBowen7]

Why do you think one must inflict horrific pain and suffering when you simply kill a person? If he is Catholic, and is going into battle, would he not go to confession first and be prepared to die? When you go into battle, be prepared. If he is fighting for evil, it is incumbent upon him to fight poorly and surrender if he has the opportunity.

You seem to have canonized as saints all the German soldiers. You assume all have families, children, and are good fathers (and are men).

You assume it is better for them to live in a society where they regularly have to round up their own people, perhaps their own children, and kill them than to have an enemy army fight to eliminate the regime and prevent such atrocities.

The cause of war is the evil present in society. To stop evil we may need to fight it. We can’t just wish it away. We can love a person by preventing them from doing evil. If this requires lethal force and they are prepared to go to heaven, then this is good.

No, the German soldier was the enemy in WWII. And the commandment says to love him. Have you seen people horribly maimed and hurt by war?
I am just saying that this commandment to love your enemy doesn’t seem very practical. No one is following it in the case of war. Catholics are killing other Catholics, who they see as their enemy?

 

[Evan]

No, the German soldier was the enemy in WWII. And the commandment says to love him. **Have you seen people horribly maimed and hurt by war? **
I am just saying that this commandment to love your enemy doesn’t seem very practical. No one is following it in the case of war. Catholics are killing other Catholics, who they see as their enemy?

Not intentionally hurt and maimed by US or Allied soldiers.

In the case of a just war, it is because of our great love for the enemy that we wish to put an end to the evil in the country from which he comes. In love, we cannot let this evil remain. By fighting him, we are protecting his wife and children, his community, and the future generations in his country.

 

[JoeBowen7]

Not intentionally hurt and maimed by US or Allied soldiers…

When you drop napalm on a soldier or a child, what do you think happens?
How did America show love toward the Vietnamese, when it dropped napalm on children?
If you are supposed to love your enemy, it seems like it is a strange type of love when you drop an atomic bomb on a whole city?