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2ndGen
Guest
Well, firstly…Welcome Home!
:hug3:
It’s always been odd to me how they attempt to place limits on who God chooses to use. Moses, Elijah, etc…can all be Saints in heaven, but “not” the mother of Jesus Christ?
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:hug3:
It’s always been odd to me how they attempt to place limits on who God chooses to use. Moses, Elijah, etc…can all be Saints in heaven, but “not” the mother of Jesus Christ?
H
HannahLisa
Guest
I don’t think anyone who acknowledges the saints could possibly not acknowledge the Blessed Mother. However, most Protestants do not acknowledge the saints, and of those who do, few make a practice of asking any of them for prayers.
C
c659smith
Guest
Centurion
Welcome back home. God Bless
Welcome back home. God Bless
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2ndGen
Guest
Hannah,
Survey question: Of all the Protestants you know, who are happier more “Christlike” Christians, the nuetral Protestants or the anti-Catholics?
For me, nuetral Protestants always seemed truly joyful and anti-Catholics truly miserable.
What’s your take as an “insider”?
C
centurion50
Guest
Thanks! All yall as we say in Texas, for the welcome. I wish someone could explain to me as well why pentecostals have no qualms about idolizing their leaders, (some of whom are hucksters), yet they would never think of asking one of the saints or Mary to pray for them. I don’t think they thoughtout or understand theirown beleifs, much less those of the catholic church either. Is it ignorance laziness of thinking or most likely Satan has blinded our minds, I thank Jesus, Mary and Joseph, St. Michael the archangel, who defends us in battle, St. Jude the saint who gives me joy and Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta for setting me free.:tiphat:
C
centurion50
Guest
Thanks for the welcome, God Bless you too!
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2ndGen
Guest
I was literally thrown out into the street by a Pentecostal I was living with.
Why?
Two reasons.
- For laughing at Benny Hinn when he appeared on tv. she asked my why I was laughing and I told her that he was busted by several new programs as being a scam artist and proven a false prophet all on video. She cried out that he’s “annointed”.
- She said that she’d never trust anything that the Catholic Church created. I told her they created The Holy Bible. She said we didn’t even exist back then. OK. So, after a day on her sister’s computer, of course, I was vindcated…vindicated my way right out of her home.
…she swore that The Passion of The Christ was a “Protestant” work. Little did she know…I told her that not only was Mel Gibson a Catholic, but he was even more orthodox Catholic than I was having his own chapel and making sure that The Vatican okayed the film before completing it.
She yelled at me that he wasn’t a Catholic, but a Christian! A Pentecostal Christian!
Ok. I told her to Google him then. She said she’d do better, that her mom was very wise on such matters, that she’d ask her.
Next day, she comes home at 10:00 at night and walks right by me. I ask her how her day went and if she spoke to her mom.
She came in the room, and said…“You were right. Mel Gibson is Catholic. Now you have to get the “F” of my house. I want you out of my house. I rebuke you. You have a demon in you. I am an expert at excorcizing demons from people.”
Believe you me…I was a lot more scared of her than she could ever be of me.
I left the next day!
S
Singinbeauty
Guest
It is presumtuous to assume you know people’s hearts and how they feel just because they belong to one group or another. Stereotyping a group is never a good thing to do…
That’s good. But from a lot of your posts it doesn’t seem that anything protestants say to you changes your mind about them. You have a pretty set view of us as a whole…
Right on…
For the most part protestants do disagree with calling her our mother. But there are some protestant beliefs systems that acknowledge her with this title. For myself, I revere her as a wonderful and brave woman who said YES to God even if it meant danger for her. That is awesome and a great example for the rest of us.
Good for you. I don’t particualarily believe that she can hear us because God is the only one I have been instructed to pray to. If I can just go to Him, why bother Mary while she enjoys her riches in Heaven? But that’s just me. Since God is the one who will help I go to Him.
Who does this? I have never heard a protestant belittle or impune her reputation… Or is disagreeing with the catholic church on this doing those things?
Not quite sure what this means… Please explain what you mean by this statement…
Praise is reserved for God and God alone.
As long as it is not more than you mention Christ then I have no problem with this. I just find that my time is more productive focusing on Christ and NO ONE else.
Funny, the bible hardly mentions Mary after her involvment with Christ’s ministry beginning. You would think that if she had such a HUGE impact on christianity and the first christians she would be mentioned a whole lot more. I believe she has importance and without her, things would have been much different. BUT she is a mere human like ourselves who needed a savior as much as we do. If we put any more on her we give her a stature that isn’t suited for her. And one not intended by Christ.
Sure, there is nothing wrong with believing that she played an important role. Just not as important as Christ. And that is what makes a lot of protestants (and even a few catholics) nervous.
Do you believe that protestants, who don’t venerate Mary as catholics do now, are anti-catholic?
Love her as a sister in Christ, yes! Love her for more than what she is, no. She made a great example for the rest of us. But she did not make the ultimate sacrifice, Christ did. And that is what we should have our focus on. Not a mere human who allowed God to incorporate her in His Holy Plan.
Continued…
S
Singinbeauty
Guest
Continued from above…
Her womb didn’t create Christ. Christ existed before she was a glint in Eve’s eye. God uses incredible people. I have never denied that she was and is incredible and amazing. But Christ is my Savior and my Love and only He deserves my veneration.
I believe that the woman foretold in that vision is the Jewish Nation and the children are the christians that were born out of Christ’s Sacrifice. Mary is one of those children.
Even Jesus didn’t give her the pedistal that many christians do. (Matthew 12:47-49 ) He never disrespected her but he never gave her a station above the others. He made sure we were taken care of by His disciples and He made sure she was taken care of by making sure one of His disciples took care of her. Every respect He gives to her he gives to us.
Higher esteem, maybe. But catholics do not revere her more. I believe that protestants have a very high reverence for Mary. We just choose to focus more on Christ than Mary.
Mother of all Christians? No, I do not believe this. But she is a wonderful and awesome example for us. To give her any less would be a shame.
If we say no, would you even believe us? Previous posts say no. It’s a shame really…
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
MaryMeriumMaryam has a special significance in Islam. Mary and her son JesusYeshuaIssa are among the many Signs of GodAllahYHWH as mentioned in Quran but not well understood by our Cathlic friends.
[21:88] And remember Dhu’l-Nèn, when he went away in anger, and he was sure in his mind that We would not cause him distress and he cried out in the midst of his afflictions: ‘There is no god but Thou, Holy art Thou. I have indeed been of the wrongdoers.’
[21:89] So We heard his prayer and delivered him from his distress. And thus do We deliver true believers.
[21:90] And remember Zachariah also when he cried to his Lord: ‘My Lord, leave me not alone and Thou art the Best of inheritors.’
[21:91] So We heard his prayer and bestowed upon him John and cured his wife of sterility for him. They used to vie with one another in good works and they called on US in hope and in fear, and they humbled themselves before US.
[21:92] And remember her who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our Word and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=21&verse=91
Thanks
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2ndGen
Guest
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2ndGen
Guest
So was The Archangel Gabriel wrong to praise Mary when he approached her in Luke 1?
Definition of praise:
praise .
–noun
- the act of expressing approval or admiration; commendation; laudation.
- the offering of grateful homage in words or song, as an act of worship: a hymn of praise to God.
- the state of being approved or admired: The king lived in praise for many years.
- Archaic. a ground for praise, or a merit.
–verb (used with object) - to express approval or admiration of; commend; extol.
- to offer grateful homage to (God or a deity), as in words or song.
Idiom - sing someone’s praises, to praise someone publicly and enthusiastically: He is always singing his wife’s praises.
And the angel came in unto her, and said, “Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.”
Well what about the part that Jesus said that we were to love each other as He loved us?
Do you think He loved Mary up to a certain point then stopped?
Or did He love her as a mother?
And if He loved her as a mother, and He told us to love her as He loved her
(as she is included in His wish to God that we all love each other as He loved us),
then is it wong for us to love her as He loved her?
I think that whenever we love Mary or each other for that fact, it’s very productive. Jesus never said love Him to to the exclusion of anyone else.
In fact, He chastized people who “only” loved Him and ignored others (this is a long one, but worth it…):
Matthew 25:31-46
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Therefore, those who love those who follow and love Jesus and who do not limit their love for them will also be loved “by” Jesus.
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2ndGen
Guest
Yeah, Protestants like to use that “mentioned” thing until we talk about Peter’s leadership in The Church, then they say it doesn’t matter how many times one is mentioned in the Bible (Peter’s mentioned more times than all the Apostles combined and 2nd only to Jesus). Off topic, but I just wanted to point that inconsistancy in Protestant beliefs there.
Now, back to Mary…“you” would think, but “you” didn’t write The Bible. God did. Your value and manner to measure importance in Scripture is deduced from “human” reasoning. How many times is the word “and” mentioned in Scriture? Probably more than Jesus’. Is “and” then more holy or important than Jesus? Grammatical usage or mentions do not importance make. Besides, not all that Jesus said is in The Bible either. Does that make what wasn’ written in The Bible “less” important?
And her impact on Christianity was the biggest of any Christian…she brought forth Christ.
Whoomp! There it is! LOL!
Mary a “mere” human? How many humans were chosen by God to bear His Son?
You compare yourself to Mary? Are yo worthy to carry His Son in your womb? Impossible, you like me are born of sinful flesh, therefore your flesh has origial sin on it. Jesus couldn’t have been formed “of” sinful flesh for is (according to Jesus’ own words) if the tree was rotten, so would the fruit be.
Since Jesus is “of” Mary physically for no man contributed one gram of DNA to Him, then because He was pure, so she too had to be pure.
If you had to send your kid to school, would you send him on a filthy bus or a clean bus? If you’d send him on a clean bus, wouldn’t Jesus be sent (as The Son of God!) on the cleanes bus around?
How did Christ intend for us to view Mary? This is how…
John 15:12
“This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.”
How did Jesus love Mary?
Then you too are commanded (not suggested) to love Mary as He has loved her.
Only Protestants suggest anything near that (that Mary is believed to have performed a role as important as Christ). Catholics have never stated that. Only Protestants bring that theory up.
It’s true. Find me one Catholic that ever stated that.
I’ll find you Protestants who say what you say all the time.
No. They just don’t love her near as much as we love Jesus’ mother.
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2ndGen
Guest
Hmmm…where do I start?
A “sister” in Christ? Where in the Bible does it say that?
I’ll show you where it says that she is our “mother” in Christ:
Revelations 12:17
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman (Mary),
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (her children besides Christ),
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Christians) .”
If you “only” lover her as a “sister”, then your love is limited to that of a sibling (even though Scripture clearly states that she is the mother of Christians).
[And before you find in a Protestants Apologetics site that the woman mentioned in Rev 12 is not Mary (who was the only woman to give birth to Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, the One Who would rule all nations with an iron rod), remember, Jeruselum is barren and cannot bear children (and “that” is Scriptural).]
Only Protestants bring up things that never happened (that Mary made the ultimate sacrifice). We never state that and that is never a point of contention. Why bring it up? I’ve no clue.
A “mere” human that allowed God to incorporate her in His holy plan?
Wow. So a person who God finds favor in is “mere” to you?
You have no repect for those God favors. That is an insult even if you don’t know it. She is not “mere” which literally means:
mere
adjective
- being nothing more nor better than: a mere pittance; He is still a mere child.
- Obsolete.
Is a clean bus to send your kid to school in just a “mere” bus when compared to a filthy bus?
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2ndGen
Guest
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2ndGen
Guest
Let us remember, that only a minority of Christians believe that Mary wasn’t who she was and that was introduced in Europe only afer the 16th Century.
The overwheming majority of Christians believe in Mary as someone “special” and as set aside from “mere” humans.
Remember, she wasn’t saved by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice.
She was saved before Jesus was even born.
It wasn’t Christ’s birth that saved mankind, but his death.
For her to call herself saved by God,
she had to be, well, “saved by God”.
Why can’t they just admit it…just say it!
It would be so liberating!
Say “We don’t love Mary as much as Catholics and Muslims do.”
I know it sounds incomprehencable, but it’s true and the truth shall set you free.
The overwheming majority of Christians believe in Mary as someone “special” and as set aside from “mere” humans.
Remember, she wasn’t saved by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice.
She was saved before Jesus was even born.
It wasn’t Christ’s birth that saved mankind, but his death.
For her to call herself saved by God,
she had to be, well, “saved by God”.
Why can’t they just admit it…just say it!
It would be so liberating!
Say “We don’t love Mary as much as Catholics and Muslims do.”
I know it sounds incomprehencable, but it’s true and the truth shall set you free.
L
Lev23
Guest
Well, what is the purpose of patting Islam on the back for honoring Mary, when they totally deny Jesus as God and savior of all mankind? This Mary Islam “honors” is not the Mary told of in scripture where God chose to bring Jesus into this world.
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2ndGen
Guest
Matter of fact, that’s a good point to dig up…what’s the percentage of Christians who don’t love Mary as much as universal Christians do?
I remember it being about 15% (since Catholics and Orthodox have nearly identical beliefs Marian-wise).
That alone comprises 85% of the total Christian population.
I remember it being about 15% (since Catholics and Orthodox have nearly identical beliefs Marian-wise).
That alone comprises 85% of the total Christian population.
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2ndGen
Guest
Why not nurture what we agree on?
Even Jesus showed the good that non-believers did when teaching His own followers.
If Jesus could do it, why can’t I?
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2ndGen
Guest
Lev,
Didn’t Jesus pat the Samaritan on the back when He told the Parable of how a Samaritan (an enemy to the Jews) did the right thing while two Jews did the wrong thing?
Didn’t Jesus pat the Samaritan on the back when He told the Parable of how a Samaritan (an enemy to the Jews) did the right thing while two Jews did the wrong thing?
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