Loving?

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My short tenure on this forum has shown me that a good majority of Catholics and other Christians are more bigoted than the rest of the world.

I’ve continually seen Islamophobia whenever the religion is brought up, even to the point that someone said you should be willing to die when you witness to a Muslim, because they’re more likely to kill you over religion.

I apologize to those I offend, but I’m having a hard time coming to grasps with how a religion whose primary tenet is love can be so hateful and bigoted in the face of diversity.
“…are more bigoted than the rest of the world.” Try this experiment. Walk into St. Peter’s in Rome and say aloud and repeatedly: “I am a Buddhist, and I think your religion is false.” Then go to Mecca; enter the Kaaba enclosure and do the same thing. A comparison of the consequences of the two experiences would, I believe, definitively disabuse you of your notion.

“…even to the point that someone said you should be willing to die when you witness to a Muslim…” Almost certainly not in Dearborn, no. Almost certainly in Dar al Islam, yes.

Speaking of “the inquisition” as if it was one thing only, easily creates confusion . It varied greatly from time to time and from place to place. A lot can be said, rightly, in condemnation of the Spanish Inquisition, for example. But it would be wrong to assume that the Inquisition itself killed anyone, because it didn’t. Those who went before the Inquisition in Spain were pretty well already condemned by the state or the populace. The Spanish Inquisition was more of a tribunal at which the accusations were re-examined. Those found to be “guilty” were simply turned back over to the state, which had already made up its mind. It also exonerated many who would have otherwise died at the hands of the state or the mobs. It is interesting to note that the accused had a right to appointed counsel throughout the process, which was unprecedented at the time and was not recognized in the U.S. until the Miranda decision. Again, this is not to say that the Inquisition in Spain was without serious moral problems. But it is not well understood, and should not be confused with its various manifestations in other times and places. It should certainly not be confused with unhistoric polemics of those who had reasons to stretch the truth or invent things outright.

“…having a hard time coming to grasp…” This is a forum, at which people are free to express what they know and what they believe. You might have noticed that a great number of anti-Catholic things are said in here. Since it is a Catholic forum, and most of the participants are Catholic, did you really think anti-Catholic statements would go unchallenged in here, or should go unchallenged? You might have noticed there are word limitations for posting. You can’t put a whole dissertation in here. Necessarily, then, people have to compress what they have to say. That’s the nature of a website like this. You might have noticed that, in speaking of the Inquisition above, I spoke in a very limited fashion, admitting there was more to know. I could not examine the entire history of the Inquisition in every detail. I could only point out that there is one widely held belief that is, in some respects, inaccurate. There are others.

Belief and opinion are not bigotry. They are belief and opinion. Unless one defines “bigotry” as being anything other than total relativism and radical non-judgmentalism, one has to accept it that people do have beliefs and opinions, and that their having them does not neccessarily constitute a moral failing. Possibly you feel that nothing can be held as true and that all beliefs and opinions are equally valid. If so, that’s your point of reference, and you’re entitled to have it. But it is not the approach of very many people who, after all, have to make a thousand judgments a day, in one way or another.
 
I haven’t. I’ve actually defended Islam quite a bit here on these forums.
Never said you haven’t. The only real things you’ve in speifically done to irk me is not debate the same way I do 😛 These complaints are pretty much from other people, and things I’ve seen ratified in real life with a lot of Christians I know.
The problem is that they could have converted or left. No one denied them these options. But they refused.
They knew the Israelites were coming to take this land because the God of the Israelites had given this land to them. They repeatedly heard the reports and they persistently refused to understand that they were simply doomed if they stayed there.
I simply disagree, but that ain’t the point of this thread, and we’ve all already had this conversation in another trhead.
Yes. But no one’s said that all actions that happened during the Crusades were good. I’ve gone on record myself saying this…
:o Sorry, I did miss that when I was reading through them all. Sorries.
Actually, I’m not sure who said that to you. I know I didn’t.
Nope, others have, and though some weren’t meant as even being offensive, I was simply in a very angry mood and took potshots at people. I’m still trying to control myself when I get angry, an extraordinarily difficult task, but am getting a little better at least.
I actually do beleive that poor catechesis can have this effect. I also think parents, loved ones, and friends can turn people way from God too.
In this regard, I think the one’s who have turned people from God almost definitely have more to answer for than the one’s they turned away from God ever did.
That may be, I don’t rightly know. I do know that I turned my back on an omnibenevolent proactive god. For me to explain how I cam to my faith, and yes it is as Mirdath said, young and still forming, would probably take me a while. However the thing that is important to me is that I strive for a life that is in accordance with my moral code, which is not so very unlike that used by Catholics, though it differs in a few aspects.

Anyways, was not aiming to offend you into yelling at me with this thread.

And I should be gone til after Christmas, so Merry Chistmas, hope the holidays go well for all 🙂
 
Not a person has said anything back about the inquisition yet, when thousands upon thousands of people were tortured and killed
Hang on a minute. Who was tortured and who was killed?

How many thousands?

You reinvent history as you go along. Why stop at thousands? Why not say ‘millions’ or even ‘billions’!

In reality about 10 people were executed arising from the ‘Spanish’ Inquition. What about the English Inquition when literally ‘thousands’ of Catholics were put to torture and cruel death. What about them? You are conspicously quiet.

Think you are either very naive or you are looking for a fight
 
I agree that either or both Islam and Christanity must be wrong when they say “this is the one true faith”. Yes. That is, if we define “True faith” as the only proper way to believe in God.
I would define true faith as the proper way to believe in God, yes I agree.
Beautiful now we can talk…

Except now I have to go as I am going out of town for Christmas, please don’t leave or forget this thread I am not trying to dodge the issue, I am perfectly willing to discuss this, just look at my previous posts on this forum.
I am just leaving out of town and my wife is pushing me to get home right now off the computer.

Talk to you in a couple days,
God Bless and Merry Christmas
Scylla
 
Here is a quickie for you on the inquisition:

On admission or conviction of guilt, a person could be sentenced publicly to any of a wide variety of penalties, ranging from simple prayer and fasting to confiscation of property and imprisonment, even life imprisonment. Condemned heretics who refused to recant, as well as those who relapsed after condemnation and repentance, were turned over to the secular arm, which alone could impose the death penalty.
 
Hmmm… once again someone clicks and attacks me because of one word, inquisition. I was not talking about the inquisition, and ou people harping on a something only related to this thread because of another thread neewd to stop responding.
Hang on a minute. Who was tortured and who was killed?
pretty much anyone the Church deemed heretical or those of other faiths they were tryin to convert.
You reinvent history as you go along. Why stop at thousands? Why not say ‘millions’ or even ‘billions’!
Becasue as far as i know it was thousands.
In reality about 10 people were executed arising from the ‘Spanish’ Inquition. What about the English Inquition when literally ‘thousands’ of Catholics were put to torture and cruel death. What about them? You are conspicously quiet.
First, that is only supported by some scholars, not all historians. Second, that was only one, and I had the wrong inquisition in mind when I mentioned it earlier. You’re still not refuting the thousands torutred either.

It’s just as bad to kill Catholics as anyone else. Or were you expecting me to blush and claim that killing Catholics is good?
Think you are either very naive or you are looking for a fight
Have already said I was pissed off and looking for a fight. BUT THE INQUISITIONS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT EXCEPT THAT THEY WERE BROUGHT UP IN ANOTHER CONVERSATION I HAD. :mad:
 
Hang on a minute. Who was tortured and who was killed?

How many thousands?

You reinvent history as you go along. Why stop at thousands? Why not say ‘millions’ or even ‘billions’!

In reality about 10 people were executed arising from the ‘Spanish’ Inquition. What about the English Inquition when literally ‘thousands’ of Catholics were put to torture and cruel death. What about them? You are conspicously quiet.

Think you are either very naive or you are looking for a fight
Try about 2,000 executions, almost all of them converso Jews. Probably was more. Where did you get “10” from?
 
I would define true faith as the proper way to believe in God, yes I agree.
Beautiful now we can talk…

Except now I have to go as I am going out of town for Christmas, please don’t leave or forget this thread I am not trying to dodge the issue, I am perfectly willing to discuss this, just look at my previous posts on this forum.
I am just leaving out of town and my wife is pushing me to get home right now off the computer.

Talk to you in a couple days,
God Bless and Merry Christmas
Scylla
Merry Christmas.
 
Never said you haven’t. The only real things you’ve in speifically done to irk me is not debate the same way I do 😛 These complaints are pretty much from other people, and things I’ve seen ratified in real life with a lot of Christians I know.

I simply disagree, but that ain’t the point of this thread, and we’ve all already had this conversation in another trhead.

:o Sorry, I did miss that when I was reading through them all. Sorries.

Nope, others have, and though some weren’t meant as even being offensive, I was simply in a very angry mood and took potshots at people. I’m still trying to control myself when I get angry, an extraordinarily difficult task, but am getting a little better at least.

That may be, I don’t rightly know. I do know that I turned my back on an omnibenevolent proactive god. For me to explain how I cam to my faith, and yes it is as Mirdath said, young and still forming, would probably take me a while. However the thing that is important to me is that I strive for a life that is in accordance with my moral code, which is not so very unlike that used by Catholics, though it differs in a few aspects.

Anyways, was not aiming to offend you into yelling at me with this thread.

And I should be gone til after Christmas, so Merry Chistmas, hope the holidays go well for all 🙂
Fair enough Oneiron. As far as the things we disagree on, we’ll agree to disagree.

Enjoy your Christmas. 🙂
 
Didn’t Jesus teach that you are supposed to love everyone as yourself, to always turn the other cheeck and love your enemy?
If you agree that this is a legitimate teaching, why don’t you put it into practice? :tiphat:
 
It was in answer to such attacks by Islam that the Inquisitions were established and why the Crusades were fought. And those are plain historical facts.

Proof please. What I saw in the crusades was two powers fighting over one area that both wanted. The Christians were not just defending themselves, they were pressing offensive battles. And personally, nothing warrants an event such as an inquisition.

Here’s your Proof:

military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by Western Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. Their objectives were to check the spread of Islam, to retake control of the Holy Land, to conquer pagan areas, and to recapture formerly Christian territories; they were seen by many of their participants as a means of redemption and expiation for sins. Between 1095, when the First Crusade was launched, and 1291, when the Latin Christians were finally expelled from their kingdom in Syria, there were numerous expeditions to the Holy Land, to Spain, and even to the Baltic; the Crusades continued for several centuries after 1291, usually as military campaigns intended to halt or slow the advance of Muslim power or to conquer pagan areas. Crusading declined rapidly during the 16th century with the advent of the Protestant Reformation and the decline of papal authority.

Approximately two-thirds of the ancient Christian world had been conquered by Muslims by the end of the 11th century, including the important regions of Palestine, Syria, Egypt, and Anatolia……….

britannica.com/eb/article-9110241/Crusades
 
If you agree that this is a legitimate teaching, why don’t you put it into practice? :tiphat:
First, you have no idea of how much work I’ve put into getting this far along in living my life by that teaching, it’s a teaching I agree wholeheartedly in. Second, I don’t discriminate through hate, fear, or mistrust toward persons of other race or religion. This is the attitude I was attacking:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1758313&postcount=3
Attack on Atheists
Complete agreement
Atheists are stupid
 
I’m sure many of you are going to find this rather offensive, but frankly I don’t care anymore. My short tenure on this forum has shown me that a good majority of Catholics and other Christians are more bigoted than the rest of the world. They attempt to learn of Mohammed and Islam, yet seek out only that which proves their view of it being a waqr promoting religion. They do not care for researching the historical aspect of those wars, even if their action would then make them seem less hateful toward the rest of the world.

Yet when you compare Islam to Christianity everyone gets defensive. So who really cares if the Israelites commited genocide on the Canaanites, your god sanctioned it and they were bad people who deserved to be killed. I have read defenses of the Crusades as purely defensive wars rooted in Christian goodness. Not a person has said anything back about the inquisition yet, when thousands upon thousands of people were tortured and killed for not believing as you do.

I’ve read hateful lashes at aetheists as well, and have been told that my belief in god not being vindicated when I was 10 years old and alone was due to me. It can’t be god ignoring me, or that he’s sleeping or dead or may not exist at all, but I did something wrong and turned my back on god. After all, he’s perfect, so everything has to be my fault.

I’ve continually seen Islamophobia whenever the religion is brought up, even to the point that someone said you should be willing to die when you witness to a Muslim, because they’re more likely to kill you over religion. And then this fear is encouraged among yourselves.

I’ve even seen it been said that anti-semitism is pagan.

Didn’t Jesus teach that you are supposed to love everyone as yourself, to always turn the other cheeck and love your enemy? Didn’t he preach naught but love and respect wherever he went, to care for those who were in need? But it seems that the only part of Jesus’s life that is quoted is that he died for you.
I apologize to those I offend, but I’m having a hard time coming to grasps with how a religion whose primary tenet is love can be so hateful and bigoted in the face of diversity.
I’m trying to understand why you think your opinion is above all others? You claim to be budhist or taoist, then come to a Catholic website, try to find holes in our faith, then complain that we are not nice to you? Are you serious?

If you jump into an ocean, you should expect to get wet. If you don’t like us, leave. I’ll buy the tissue for everyone.
 
I’m trying to understand why you think your opinion is above all others?
When did I ever say that? Unless you count my opinions on tolerance.
You claim to be budhist or taoist, then come to a Catholic website, try to find holes in our faith, then complain that we are not nice to you? Are you serious?
Where in that whole rant did I try to poke holes in your faith? I never once accused the church of anything. Nor have I ever. As far as individual faith goes, I’m here to try and understand more about Catholicism in general, as well as to try and broaden people’s horizons. I’m sick of prejudice being promoted because of religion, especially when I grew up Catholic and was taught that prejudice of any kind was a sin by Catholic priests. If they’ve all got it wrong I’d like the proof. I wanna see where it says that dehumanization of other religion’s followers, of anyone for that matter, is okay.
Also, the only thing to seriously piss me off in this thread has been the million people ignoring what i posted to defend events in Catholicism’s history, which weren’t even brought up here save to illustrate a point.
If you jump into an ocean, you should expect to get wet. If you don’t like us, leave. I’ll buy the tissue for everyone.
And at what point did I say I dislike you all? there are a few people I dislike, but for every one I dislike there’s another two who have been wonderful to chat with.
But I especially love reading the “You’re not Catholic and you refuse to listen to what we say so you must hate Catholics and should leave” argument. But honestly, it’s getting kind of old to hear and it’s completely wrong.
 
You claim to be budhist or taoist, then come to a Catholic website, try to find holes in our faith, then complain that we are not nice to you? Are you serious?
I’d hope he is serious. Especially at Christmas time. One would hope that this being a Catholic site, everyone would be met with loving, and open arms. Questioning the faith may simply be for the purpose of learning, with no malicious intent. Then we need to be kind and loving in our responses, otherwise we are nothing. On the other hand, if it is with malicious intent, then we need to be kind and loving in prayer. This is a Catholic site after all.
 
My short tenure on this forum has shown me that a good majority of Catholics and other Christians are more bigoted than the rest of the world.

Just an example. I wasn’t even referring to just this thread. You’ve “asked questions” and then argue that our responses are wrong in numerous threads.

And at what point did I say I dislike you all?

See above maybe?

If you want to learn about Catholicism, you came to the right place. I wouldn’t spend too much time in the forums though, except maybe the “Ask an Apologist” section. But the fact is, you’ve claimed to know much about the faith since you were raised in it.

Maybe I’m crazy (a distinct possibility), but I’m guessing that if a majority of people respond to you this way (enough of us to make you call us all biggots), maybe it’s you.
 
My short tenure on this forum has shown me that a good majority of Catholics and other Christians are more bigoted than the rest of the world.

Just an example. I wasn’t even referring to just this thread. You’ve “asked questions” and then argue that our responses are wrong in numerous threads.
I remember asking questions, then mayhap disagreeing, but not without saying thanks for giving me an answer. If at any point I haven’t said thanks for responding, I shall say it now:

To anyone who answered a question for me, Thankees 😃

There are a few thing I will argue about no matter what. And one of those things is intolerance in a religion based on love and acceptance.
And at what point did I say I dislike you all?
See above maybe?
Ummm… I already explained that I posted that while angry and overstated the fact. it is not a majority. However, it is still a terrifying number of outspoken Catholics both that I’ve seen on this forum and in real life.
If you want to learn about Catholicism, you came to the right place. I wouldn’t spend too much time in the forums though, except maybe the “Ask an Apologist” section. But the fact is, you’ve claimed to know much about the faith since you were raised in it.
I believe I know a decent amount, but I wish to know more. There are some things i was taught by a Catholic Priest while i was growing up that do not sound very Catholic to me, so I wanted to research them some, as well as other issues, and while I’m at it to find where the limits of the beliefs are. however, I do not believe Catholicism preaches prejudice.
Maybe I’m crazy (a distinct possibility), but I’m guessing that if a majority of people respond to you this way (enough of us to make you call us all biggots), maybe it’s you.
Hmmm… I never called you all bigots, only one person to my knowledge, and as far as i can recall we simply agreed to disagree. And actually, there are a lot of people here who explained to me their point, and had a nice debate over the issue, No name calling or anything of the sort. Only a few people respond to what i say and go overboard with it.
Nothing personal against most people here, I simply find it distressing that people of a faith based on love can seem to hate others.
 
My short tenure on this forum has shown me that a good majority of Catholics and other Christians are more bigoted than the rest of the world.

Why can’t you remember calling us that when it’s been quoted so much?

Look, you can have your beliefs. I’m all for that. But don’t expect to come to a Catholic forum, disagree with a lot of our core beliefs and values, and not upset a few of us.
 
My short tenure on this forum has shown me that a good majority of Catholics and other Christians are more bigoted than the rest of the world.

Why can’t you remember calling us that when it’s been quoted so much?

Look, you can have your beliefs. I’m all for that. But don’t expect to come to a Catholic forum, disagree with a lot of our core beliefs and values, and not upset a few of us.
How stupid can you be when I’ve already said multiple times that I overstated the ****ing case! I was pissed off and misstated something while I was angry, and I already apologized for it. Either listen to what I’m saying or shut up.
 
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