Low sperm count

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Pug:
But if the doctor tells you that you are perfectly fine unless you get pregnant, then it can’t be removed just for that, to my understanding. Abstinence would be the probable course in that case.
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Thanks for the reply, Pug.

Ack! 😦 I haven’t even thought to ask the doctor exactly why a hysterectomy would be needed. All I gathered was that with each C-section the risk of future problems with the placenta previa goes up, possibly requiring a hysterectomy in the long run. But why would they do a hysterectomy on someone just to prevent future pregnancies? Wouldn’t most doctors just recommend birth control? If that is the case, then there must be (I hope) a medical necessity under those circumstances for doing the hysterectomy, making it not a moral issue.

I believe I will take this to the apologists and see what they have to say. This is distressing!
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
You’re kidding! Men actually DO that?! :ehh:
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Sure, and if you don’t have a warmer handy, a cigarette lighter works pretty well.
 
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Pug:
I can only give my gut, and my gut says no to this.
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The issue isn’t so much whether this particular example is morally acceptable or not, but how it’s morality or lack thereof relates to the overall understanding of Humanae Vitae.

If your gut is right, then a perforated condom must be an immoral device, because the ends were moral, being the same ends as a moral use of NFP. But if a perforated condom is an immoral device, how can it be morally used to collect a medical sample, as the USCCB states it can?
 
Surf(name removed by moderator)ure,

It hasn’t come up in my life, so I don’t know the details of why a doctor suggests the procedure, but it is a moral question that I’ve seen discussed in theology texts, so I suppose it can come up. In those cases that I’ve read about, the doctor recommends the removal as a form of being sure never to get pregnant again.

Here is a document from Cardinal Ratzinger at the Vatican’s site directly talking about it. I don’t know why the doctor doesn’t just suggest birth control…maybe because of the user failure rate with using it?

click here for Ratzinger
 
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Catholic2003:
The issue isn’t so much whether this particular example is morally acceptable or not, but how it’s morality or lack thereof relates to the overall understanding of Humanae Vitae.
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I completely agree!:bowdown2:
If your gut is right, then a perforated condom must be an immoral device, because the ends were moral, being the same ends as a moral use of NFP. But if a perforated condom is an immoral device, how can it be morally used to collect a medical sample, as the USCCB states it can?
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I just had to put my gut reaction out there, so no one would misunderstand me. I wish I had more info to answer this question!:banghead: I’d love to hear anything you come up with. I’m glad to know I’m not alone in finding this issue puzzling.
 
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Pug:
Surf(name removed by moderator)ure,

It hasn’t come up in my life, so I don’t know the details of why a doctor suggests the procedure, but it is a moral question that I’ve seen discussed in theology texts, so I suppose it can come up. In those cases that I’ve read about, the doctor recommends the removal as a form of being sure never to get pregnant again.

Here is a document from Cardinal Ratzinger at the Vatican’s site directly talking about it. I don’t know why the doctor doesn’t just suggest birth control…maybe because of the user failure rate with using it?

click here for Ratzinger
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Ouch! That’s a bit hairier than what Fr. Serpa the apologist said (see the Ask an Apologist forum).

I suppose I’m just struggling with the human fear that I could accidentally get pregnant through a mistake in our NFP and thereby cause great injury or death to my child and/or myself.

This of course is all couched in the possibility that after several C-sections I would require a hysterectomy. I suppose I’ll be losing quite a bit of sleep over this in the years to come. 😦
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
Ouch! That’s a bit hairier than what Fr. Serpa the apologist said (see the Ask an Apologist forum).
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Surf(name removed by moderator)ure,

I can really see why you could worry about this! I hope it never comes to be anything close to your life. I didn’t mean to raise extra fears for you.:nope: Fr. Serpa is probably a bit wiser than me. <<Pug=sheepish>>
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
Sure, and if you don’t have a warmer handy, a cigarette lighter works pretty well.
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Leadership by example. You first!

Gordon
 
I couldn’t figure out if this was posted before from Humana Vitae:
Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means.
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This is what I think renders even a harmless seeming action immoral. Intent matters. The intent of the perforated condom when used in conjunction with the initial charting months of NFP is to prevent procreation during that time, I surmise. Abstinence is not a specific action designed to render an act of intercourse less fertile than it otherwise would be, nor is having intercourse on a specific day of the month an action designed to render that act of intercourse less fertile.:hmmm:

Obligatory link to HV.
 
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Pug:
This is what I think renders even a harmless seeming action immoral. Intent matters. The intent of the perforated condom when used in conjunction with the initial charting months of NFP is to prevent procreation during that time, I surmise. Abstinence is not a specific action designed to render an act of intercourse less fertile than it otherwise would be, nor is having intercourse on a specific day of the month an action designed to render that act of intercourse less fertile.:hmmm:
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I don’t know if this matters or not, but he intent of a perforated condom is to lessen the chance of procreation, not to prevent procreation.

On the other hand, if intent is truly what matters, then the use of non-perforated condom to gather a medical sample would also be moral. But somehow people don’t seem to be on board with this consequence either.
 
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kmktexas:
It is called a Silastic sheath. It is similar to a condom in basic construction but it is designed and sold for the express purpose of allowing sperm to flow through while at the same time preserving a sample for testing. and device.
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Can you tell me where I can purchase something like this please? My doctor advised us to have a sperm count since we have been trying to have a baby with no success. I didn’t know what to do… actually my doc was kind of disrespectful when i asked him about post-coital sperm count… i told him i was catholic and we didn’t want to have it done in the form of masturbation. He had a smug look that i can’t get past and said, “I am sure priests masturbate.” Now i want to try to find another doctor. i was really saddened when he said that. if he is this disrespectful now and didn’t want to work with me, i can imagine how things would go in the future. I just felt so inferior to him… being a male doctor and always trusting in them.

thank you for your direction.
 
There is an electrical shock type method of getting sperm which is a little uncomfortable, but doable.
Fertil Steril. 2002 Mar;77(3):621-3. Related Articles, Links
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Successful pregnancy with intrauterine insemination using vasal sperm retrieved by electric stimulation.
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Saito K, Kinoshita Y, Suzuki K, Kawakami Y, Sato K, Matsuura K.
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Department of Urology, Yokohama City University, Yokohama, Japan. zxb07166@nifty.ne.jp
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OBJECTIVE: To determine the feasibility of electric stimulation applied to the epididymis or vas deferens to retrieve vasal sperm. DESIGN: Two case reports. SETTING: Assisted reproduction practice in a hospital. PATIENT(S): Two patients with retrograde ejaculation and severe asthenozoospermia. INTERVENTION(S): Pulse electric simulation was applied to the epididymis or vas deferens to retrieve sperm via a tube cannulated into the vas deferens. After diluting with culture medium, retrieved sperm were used for IUI. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): The volume of retrieved vasal fluid and motility parameters of the sperm, the achievement of pregnancy, and outcome of pregnancy. RESULT(S): In patient 1, the volumes of vasal fluids and numbers of sperm were 10-40 microL and 31.4-75.9 x 10(6), respectively, during two cycles. Sperm motility was 88.4%–93.2%. His wife became pregnant and was delivered of a healthy infant by IUI during the second cycle. In patient 2, 0.6 x 10(6) sperm with a motility of 70% were retrieved and used for IUI. However, his wife did not become pregnant. CONCLUSION(S): Electric vasal sperm retrieval is a feasible method for collecting sperm from the vas deferens in selected patients with male factor infertility.
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Publication Types:
Case Reports
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PMID: 11872223 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11872223&dopt=Abstract
 
WHOA! :mad: NEW DOCTOR!!
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rosebudfantasy:
Can you tell me where I can purchase something like this please? My doctor advised us to have a sperm count since we have been trying to have a baby with no success. I didn’t know what to do… actually my doc was kind of disrespectful when i asked him about post-coital sperm count… i told him i was catholic and we didn’t want to have it done in the form of masturbation. He had a smug look that i can’t get past and said, “I am sure priests masturbate.” Now i want to try to find another doctor. i was really saddened when he said that. if he is this disrespectful now and didn’t want to work with me, i can imagine how things would go in the future. I just felt so inferior to him… being a male doctor and always trusting in them.

thank you for your direction.
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“Electrical Stimulation ” Glossary
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From Laura Inverarity,
Your Guide to Physical Therapy.
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Definition:
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Electrical stimulation uses an electrical current to cause a single muscle or a group of muscles to contract. By placing electrodes on the skin in various locations the physical therapist can recruit the appropriate muscle fibers. Contracting the muscle via electrical stimulation helps strengthen the affected muscle. The physical therapist can change the current setting to allow for a forceful or gentle muscle contraction. Along with increasing muscle strength, the contraction of the muscle also promotes blood supply to the area that assists in healing.
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Also Known As: E StimImportant
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physicaltherapy.about.com/od/abbreviationsandterms/g/EStim.htm
 
What I am interested in is the sheath i mentioned. I don’t think this electric shock method is something i would be interested in but thank you.
 
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NFPfamily:
I believe this is also an immoral means of collecting a sample because it is not open to life.

To the OP, I would check with a Catholic hospital or the Pope Paul VI Institute for information.
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Not open to life? How? The study I posted above produced children. The purpose of collecting the sperm is to create life.
 
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rosebudfantasy:
Can you tell me where I can purchase something like this please? My doctor advised us to have a sperm count since we have been trying to have a baby with no success. I didn’t know what to do… actually my doc was kind of disrespectful when i asked him about post-coital sperm count… i told him i was catholic and we didn’t want to have it done in the form of masturbation. He had a smug look that i can’t get past and said, “I am sure priests masturbate.” Now i want to try to find another doctor. i was really saddened when he said that. if he is this disrespectful now and didn’t want to work with me, i can imagine how things would go in the future. I just felt so inferior to him… being a male doctor and always trusting in them.

thank you for your direction.
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What a low-life! As another poster said, find yourself a new doctor immediately.
 
Daniel Marsh:
Not open to life? How? The study I posted above produced children. The purpose of collecting the sperm is to create life.
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That’s an easy one- it’s still “spilling the seed” so to speak. There is not an opportunity for life to come from the emission itself. That is supposed to happen within the marital union of intercourse, anything else is not accepted in the Church.
 
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tcay584:
Have you ever examined the costs of adoption? :eek: I have. A friend of mine paid 20K in legal fees, and another got a “bargain” child for 13K (very unusual). Everyone says…just adopt. . . It’s not an easy process.
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Sorry to be off topic, but I have to reply to this. It is erroneous, unless you insist on adopting a newborn. We adopted special needs children domestically, and the adoption fees were all refunded by the state. And we receive a monthly stipend for school and other expenses. Also, expenses for overseas adoptions are refunded as tax credits. (in the US of course).
They were adopted at 3 and 4 years old, but we’d had them since 10 and 28 months of age. Adoption is an excellent method of forming a family.
 
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