Lust v. Sexual Attraction

[rkwittem]

Hi all, this is my first post, and I hope it’s not too much of a doozy.

Here goes…

This question has been chewing on me for a long time and I’ve struggled to resolve it for well over a decade. In a nutshell, what’s really the key, fundamental difference between sexual attraction and lust, if there is one? Is it really just semantics?
To me, there really is no fundamental difference between the two. This line of thinking stems from my latter years in high school. As I came into my own as a fully functional adult, I began to recognize a kind of dichotomy within my mind.
I was (and am) of course attracted to and interested in girls, but always very mindful of preserving my chastity and behaving modestly. As a result, I became extremely conscientious of how I perceived and looked at women around me. Eventually, I came to regard my sexual interest in them, no matter how uncontrollable it may be, as an “occasion of sin.” I take my faith very seriously and this was of course very troubling to one whose parents expected him to walk the straight-and-narrow path in high school, no matter what. I used this to convince myself that my sexuality was to be feared and kept at length. So I repressed it, denied it, ignored it, and buried it under my other interests (music, sports, art, video games, education, etc.). Basically I would see a cute girl I was interested in, and immediately crush the attraction. I simply did not permit them to stay in my head for very long. Basically, I wanted to be asexual. Think the “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off” verses from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:29-30) I still committed personal sexual sins of impurity and this made me hate myself and my sexuality even more.

As I’ve gotten older and more mature, I’ve become more tolerant of the presence of sexual feelings, but they still give me pause and I certainly don’t dwell on them. Even so, I really want to go on a few dates (just so I can get the experience), and I’ve always felt as though my vocation was the married life, but my sheer terror at the thought of allowing myself to be sexually attracted to a woman scares the living daylights out of me. It makes me queasy and uncomfortable. I get horribly embarrassed when people talk about girls I have crushes on. (Basically like the feeling one would have if you were sitting on the toilet with the whole world watching.)

I’ve talked to my parents about this. I’ve talked to a couple of priests about this. I’ve talked to a couple of my stronger Catholic friends about this, and I still can’t resolve it. Every time I get interested in a woman, I kick the tires for a while, weigh my options and ultimately decide not pursue a relationship for the simple reason that I find her attractive. I find it utterly abhorrent to me to form a relationship of the basis of sexual attraction. I’d almost go so far as to say it’s pathetic. In spite this, every one of those aforementioned people I talked to claim it is *essential *for a lasting relationship. It’s a royal mess. I don’t know how to solve this riddle.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I think you’ve shared something quite important and profound.

I think most everyone has grappled with what you speak about here. I know I have when it comes to religion and ‘lust’ and trying to figure out just how much is necessary and good and what part of it is bad. I think this comes from a lack of understanding and isn’t so much abnormal as it is just a part of life- figuring out what is good and what is bad for us. Prudence.

I do think it should be pointed out though, -and you are right in what you say- that what may sometimes be perceived as lust may be going too far. I do believe that can happen, and that it is a form of scruples. I think in our young lives, when we come upon these powerful feelings and since we were told basically “NO” and since we can see the effects of unbridled sexuality, we tend to fear it and cut it off. (There are of course others who go the other way too!) I don’t’ think that is so unusual, but yes, it can be hurtful to the wholeness of one’s being if we go too far.

I do believe there is such a thing as lust. And we should be careful.

Its kind of like learning to drive a car. I was white knuckled the first time I drove… I had seen the year previous several (and I do mean several) auto accidents that were not only gory but people died. So I was very fearful of driving. But as I learned what NOT to do in driving to avoid that sort of thing, I relaxed a bit more. Still, there is always a danger and I must be careful, but I couldn’t put off driving as it is necessary. I believe lust and sexual attraction are the same deal. You don’t have to be so white-knuckled about it, but you most certainly should be aware of yourself and what is going on. Sex is powerful and it requires prudence to manage it.

Hope this adds something helpful to the conversation!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think it’s a normal tension for a chaste individual. Have you read anything by Jason Evert? He seems to have a good handle on what it means to be chaste and the implications of sexual sin.

To me, the choice of actions is what differentiates between lust and sexual attraction. You are going to have that attraction, and God gave it to us all in order to facilitate marriage. Instead of seeing sexual attraction as a curse, see it as God’s gift to us, but only to be used in the context of marriage. Lust is the choice to use sexual attraction as sin - to think of the other person as an object of fantasy, to use in sexual sin, etc. So if you were attracted to a woman, you would imagine her without clothing and use that image to masturbate with, for example.

Sexual attraction is normal and given by God. It is not easy to sublimate this desire, and keep it in check. You chose one way to do it, but have perhaps gone to an extreme. I would recommend trying a date but try not to be alone with the young lady because you don’t need to tempt yourself that way. I think you would be strengthened when you found that you can still control your attractions even if you don’t totally push them away.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Oh, sorry, I just realized that you were asking for help… I was just sort of discussing it in my first post.

My 2 cents…

The only thing I can say is to carefully examine all of these issues in prayer. Ask Jesus to help you sort things out. Don’t be so afraid to explore the issue, but do submit yourself to the Lord.

I do believe that when you meet your significant other, there might not be as strong of an issue there as there is now. You will care for her genuinely, and so it might not be as hard as it seems to you right now. It may be that you are too tightly focused on this aspect because you are of that age- I’m assuming. Trust in the Lord!

 

[bilop]

Hi all, this is my first post, and I hope it’s not too much of a doozy.

Here goes…

This question has been chewing on me for a long time and I’ve struggled to resolve it for well over a decade. In a nutshell, what’s really the key, fundamental difference between sexual attraction and lust, if there is one? Is it really just semantics?
To me, there really is no fundamental difference between the two. This line of thinking stems from my latter years in high school. As I came into my own as a fully functional adult, I began to recognize a kind of dichotomy within my mind.
I was (and am) of course attracted to and interested in girls, but always very mindful of preserving my chastity and behaving modestly. As a result, I became extremely conscientious of how I perceived and looked at women around me. Eventually, I came to regard my sexual interest in them, no matter how uncontrollable it may be, as an “occasion of sin.” I take my faith very seriously and this was of course very troubling to one whose parents expected him to walk the straight-and-narrow path in high school, no matter what. I used this to convince myself that my sexuality was to be feared and kept at length. So I repressed it, denied it, ignored it, and buried it under my other interests (music, sports, art, video games, education, etc.). Basically I would see a cute girl I was interested in, and immediately crush the attraction. I simply did not permit them to stay in my head for very long. Basically, I wanted to be asexual. Think the “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off” verses from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:29-30) I still committed personal sexual sins of impurity and this made me hate myself and my sexuality even more.

As I’ve gotten older and more mature, I’ve become more tolerant of the presence of sexual feelings, but they still give me pause and I certainly don’t dwell on them. Even so, I really want to go on a few dates (just so I can get the experience), and I’ve always felt as though my vocation was the married life, but my sheer terror at the thought of allowing myself to be sexually attracted to a woman scares the living daylights out of me. It makes me queasy and uncomfortable. I get horribly embarrassed when people talk about girls I have crushes on. (Basically like the feeling one would have if you were sitting on the toilet with the whole world watching.)

I’ve talked to my parents about this. I’ve talked to a couple of priests about this. I’ve talked to a couple of my stronger Catholic friends about this, and I still can’t resolve it. Every time I get interested in a woman, I kick the tires for a while, weigh my options and ultimately decide not pursue a relationship for the simple reason that I find her attractive. I find it utterly abhorrent to me to form a relationship of the basis of sexual attraction. I’d almost go so far as to say it’s pathetic. In spite this, every one of those aforementioned people I talked to claim it is *essential *for a lasting relationship. It’s a royal mess. I don’t know how to solve this riddle.

I think the key difference is that lust is viewing the woman as an object, something to fulfill your desires. Appropriate sexual attraction is part of loving a women for who she is as a person, and a potential wife.

Lust is selfish. Sexual attraction is part of forming a new union.

God Bless

 

[Boccherini]

This is something a lot of people struggle with, as the above posters have commented. For you this problem seems to be more extreme (from your post). As an analogy, a lot of people struggle with low mood, not all of them are seriously depressed. Ultimately this is a very complicated problem, too complicated to give good advice about on the Internet, since we don’t know anything about you.

I can make some comments though. Lust is just one kind of sexual attraction, which is a much larger category. You say you want to be married: marriage is inherently sexual.

Also, you say that you decide not to pursue women you are attracted to because you don’t approve of the sexual attraction you feel. Are you sure that this isn’t to cover up (subconsciously) some kind of fear you have – either fear of sex itself or fear of women? Of course, I can’t know.

 

[PaulinVA]

Well, I’ve been married for almost 30 years, so evaluate my answer through that lens.

Sexual attraction is just that - sexual attraction. I think that it is neutral. It can lead to all sorts of things, but the attraction itself is neither good nor bad, it’s just part of who humans are.

If I am sexually attracted to wife, and want to have relations with her (that sounds so clinical, but I’m trying to be circumspect), that is not lust, because I am seeking the normal pleasure associated with sex with one’s spouse.

If I am preoccupied every minute of every day with thoughts of my wife, that is lust, because it is the inordinate, or not ordinary, desire.

So, lust is the inordinate desire for sexual gratification. It could be that using people as objects to your desire, it could be that you are seeking gratification beyond the normal through more and more kinky or debasing things.

Just having feelings of sexual attraction to someone is not lust. It’s what you do with those feelings. And, quite frankly, I would consider sexual attraction important to discerning marriage with someone.

I never had any sisters, and I did have trouble just talking to pretty girls. But, you have to realize, girls, young women, women, are just people. We treat them with respect, we develop friendships, and when our heart melts at something they say or do, we have to remind ourselves that they are probably nice to everyone.

 

[Actaeon]

This question has been chewing on me for a long time and I’ve struggled to resolve it for well over a decade. In a nutshell, what’s really the key, fundamental difference between sexual attraction and lust, if there is one? Is it really just semantics?

Let’s talk about some background for you to understand, because I think your concept of lust is slightly off from Catholic teaching on the matter.

First, Sexual Attraction is an overarching category. It is neither good nor bad, but can be either depending on context. It contains human sexuality (as God designed it) and lust.

Human sexuality is sexual attraction the way it was meant to be, and sex in the context that God designed it (in a monogamous marriage). Lust is regarding others not as an ends, but as a means to an end (that end being our own pleasure).

I highlight this because it is important to understand that human sexuality and lust are NOT the same thing. Lust is not simply human sexuality run amok. Rather, lust is an animalistic sense of sexuality that deprives the other person of their human dignity… it turns them from a beloved child of God into nothing more than an object, a sack of meat useful only for pleasure. Another important fact: this perversion of human sexuality is not limited to dating… lust can be a terrible sin even inside of a valid and sacramental marriage.

When we understand that lust is not human sexuality in the extreme, but rather is a perverse and totally different application of sexuality, we can then look to healthy relationships and see that being attracted to someone is not wrong in the proper context. When we are attracted to someone, that is a GOOD thing as long as it is a chaste attraction that honors the special dignity they have by virtue of God’s grace. That attraction should not loiter on sex as an ends of a relationship, but rather should regard it as a unitive and procreative element to be observed within marriage.

So the long and short of it is that you don’t have to be afraid of dating and attraction, as long as you are taking care NOT to allow that attraction to become a means of seeking gratification on your part.

 

[rkwittem]

This is something a lot of people struggle with, as the above posters have commented. For you this problem seems to be more extreme (from your post). As an analogy, a lot of people struggle with low mood, not all of them are seriously depressed. Ultimately this is a very complicated problem, too complicated to give good advice about on the Internet, since we don’t know anything about you.

I can make some comments though. Lust is just one kind of sexual attraction, which is a much larger category. You say you want to be married: marriage is inherently sexual.

Also, you say that you decide not to pursue women you are attracted to because you don’t approve of the sexual attraction you feel. Are you sure that this isn’t to cover up (subconsciously) some kind of fear you have – either fear of sex itself or fear of women? Of course, I can’t know.

I am not scared of women, only the feelings they produce in me (I know it is not their fault, though I once felt that way as a much younger and dumber teenager.). So of course I’m terrified of sex- any instance of it that I could commit, single as I am right now would banish me to Hell. And that is my top fear, without a doubt- I am terrified by the thought of going to Hell.

N.B.- I’m not sure that I would say that marriage is inherently sexual, more that sex is inherently a part of marriage. A marriage can stand strong even without sex, in theory. (I would not know.)

 

[on_the_hill]

any instance of it that I could commit, single as I am right now would banish me to Hell. And that is my top fear, without a doubt- I am terrified by the thought of going to Hell.

If we know anything about Christ’s teaching, we know that there is a thing called forgiveness. As a matter of fact, there’s that big ol’ Sacrament of Reconciliation priests talk about all the time because too few of us practice it.

Now–I’m not saying you should run around committing sins in the belief that the Penitential Rite is a Get Out of Hell Free card.

But at the same time, you’re not doing yourself any favors–and in fact, one could say that you’re rejecting God’s power of forgiveness–by concluding that any instance of sex will banish you to eternal damnation.

What I am saying is you need to loosen up a little, clear your head, and see things more rationally. Otherwise, you’ll probably implode from the overwhelming weight of guilt for sins you’ve never committed.

 

[on_the_hill]

I am not scared of women, only the feelings they produce in me (I know it is not their fault, though I once felt that way as a much younger and dumber teenager.).

Maybe you’re not scared of women, but your feelings about them scare *me *a little.

This is just an outside, non-theological, non-Catholic thought:

Have you considered that maybe your feelings aren’t necessarily rooted in your Catholic beliefs? Maybe you have anxiety about the opposite sex, social anxiety, whatever, and you’re shielding yourself with Church teaching?

Just on a personal level, I’ve dealt with my own anxiety disorder, have done a lot of casual research, and sometimes things aren’t always what they seem. Your feelings are so intense that it would be worthwhile for you to think about them from different perspectives.

 

[rkwittem]

If we know anything about Christ’s teaching, we know that there is a thing called forgiveness. As a matter of fact, there’s that big ol’ Sacrament of Reconciliation priests talk about all the time because too few of us practice it.

Now–I’m not saying you should run around committing sins in the belief that the Penitential Rite is a Get Out of Hell Free card.

But at the same time, you’re not doing yourself any favors–and in fact, one could say that you’re rejecting God’s power of forgiveness–by concluding that any instance of sex will banish you to eternal damnation.

What I am saying is you need to loosen up a little, clear your head, and see things more rationally. Otherwise, you’ll probably implode from the overwhelming weight of guilt for sins you’ve never committed.

I’m not saying that because I feel they are unforgivable, only that should I commit one, I would be in a state of mortal sin. That’s all I meant.

 

[bilop]

I’m not saying that because I feel they are unforgivable, only that should I commit one, I would be in a state of mortal sin. That’s all I meant.

Right, but that doesn’t “banish you to hell”. That’s why we have confession.

It’s not healthy to fear sin so much that it inhibits a normal life. In the long run, if your vocation is in fact marriage, cutting yourself off from romantic love completely may well cause more spiritual damage than a repented sexual sin. You should always fight sin, but it’s not healthy to fear it so much.

Remember St. Augustine. He sinned more gravely in matters of the flesh than you’re ever likely to. Yet, he’s a Saint and Doctor of the Church.

God Bless

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am not scared of women, only the feelings they produce in me (I know it is not their fault, though I once felt that way as a much younger and dumber teenager.). So of course I’m terrified of sex- any instance of it that I could commit, single as I am right now would banish me to Hell. And that is my top fear, without a doubt- I am terrified by the thought of going to Hell.

N.B.- I’m not sure that I would say that marriage is inherently sexual, more that sex is inherently a part of marriage. A marriage can stand strong even without sex, in theory. (I would not know.)

Well, evidently Mary and Joseph had a marriage after Jesus was born, although we never hear anything more about Joseph after Jesus is lost at the temple…By the time Jesus is crucified, Joseph must have died, for Mary is given to John for her care, just before Jesus dies.

I think you are going in the wrong direction here. You are defending an asexual marriage, because you are afraid of sexual sin. You should be looking forward to a holy sexual relationship with your wife. Rejoice that marriage will give you the ability to honor God with your sexuality! Resist the fear and hatred of the body! God gave us sex in order to create new souls and bond us with our spouse! This is a VERY GOOD THING!

 

[rkwittem]

Well, evidently Mary and Joseph had a marriage after Jesus was born, although we never hear anything more about Joseph after Jesus is lost at the temple…By the time Jesus is crucified, Joseph must have died, for Mary is given to John for her care, just before Jesus dies.

I think you are going in the wrong direction here. You are defending an asexual marriage, because you are afraid of sexual sin. You should be looking forward to a holy sexual relationship with your wife. Rejoice that marriage will give you the ability to honor God with your sexuality! Resist the fear and hatred of the body! God gave us sex in order to create new souls and bond us with our spouse! This is a VERY GOOD THING!

I am not afraid of sex within marriage, only the “occasion of sin” that precedes marriage. Simply put, I don’t have any desire to enter a relationship that may cause the other person to enter into their own occasion of sin. What I mean by this is that I do not want a relationship for the sole fact that there is an expectation nowadays (however erroneous it may be) that sexual intimacy go hand-in-hand with it. I consider that an occasion of sin. I am not worried about emotional intimacy and commitment, but the fear of being tempted and not knowing how I might respond to it (and how she might) gives me great pause.

I admit there may be some problem with that, so I entreat you to give me some advice on this matter. I would like to resolve it some day. Perhaps I should talk to more women about it, most of the people I’ve talked to on the matter have been male…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am not afraid of sex within marriage, only the “occasion of sin” that precedes marriage. Simply put, I don’t have any desire to enter a relationship that may cause the other person to enter into their own occasion of sin. What I mean by this is that I do not want a relationship for the sole fact that there is an expectation nowadays (however erroneous it may be) that sexual intimacy go hand-in-hand with it. I consider that an occasion of sin. I am not worried about emotional intimacy and commitment, but the fear of being tempted and not knowing how I might respond to it (and how she might) gives me great pause.

I admit there may be some problem with that, so I entreat you to give me some advice on this matter. I would like to resolve it some day. Perhaps I should talk to more women about it, most of the people I’ve talked to on the matter have been male…

Would your parents be open to the idea of “courting?” If you are concerned about the near occasion of sin, how about being chaperoned by your parents or the young lady’s parents? Many young adults are re-embracing this strategy when they are ready to discern marriage. It means no dates in the current manner, but meeting under the scrutiny of family members. Just brainstorming about possible ways to proceed, so that you can desensitize yourself to being in the company of attractive females.

Also, you are perhaps not giving yourself enough credit for already having mastered your baser impulses. It is as if you are afraid of your desires getting control of you if you but get near a woman that you are attracted to. But you’ve already demonstrated a heck of a lot of self-control thus far. Why do you have so little faith in your own moral convictions? Your determination to sin is not going to be overpowered unless you consent, you know.

Don’t have a relationship based on what society does, and don’t NOT have a relationship based on what society does. KWIM??

 

[rkwittem]

Would your parents be open to the idea of “courting?” If you are concerned about the near occasion of sin, how about being chaperoned by your parents or the young lady’s parents? Many young adults are re-embracing this strategy when they are ready to discern marriage. It means no dates in the current manner, but meeting under the scrutiny of family members. Just brainstorming about possible ways to proceed, so that you can desensitize yourself to being in the company of attractive females.

Also, you are perhaps not giving yourself enough credit for already having mastered your baser impulses. It is as if you are afraid of your desires getting control of you if you but get near a woman that you are attracted to. But you’ve already demonstrated a heck of a lot of self-control thus far. Why do you have so little faith in your own moral convictions? Your determination to sin is not going to be overpowered unless you consent, you know.

Don’t have a relationship based on what society does, and don’t NOT have a relationship based on what society does. KWIM??

It is not a question of faith, only the avoidance of an occasion of sin. Dating is unique in this regard for me. It is tinged with an element of sexuality that I am frankly not the least bit comfortable with.

 

[bilop]

I am not afraid of sex within marriage, only the “occasion of sin” that precedes marriage. Simply put, I don’t have any desire to enter a relationship that may cause the other person to enter into their own occasion of sin. What I mean by this is that I do not want a relationship for the sole fact that there is an expectation nowadays (however erroneous it may be) that sexual intimacy go hand-in-hand with it. I consider that an occasion of sin. I am not worried about emotional intimacy and commitment, but the fear of being tempted and not knowing how I might respond to it (and how she might) gives me great pause.

I admit there may be some problem with that, so I entreat you to give me some advice on this matter. I would like to resolve it some day. Perhaps I should talk to more women about it, most of the people I’ve talked to on the matter have been male…

I’m sorry, but there’s really no way to fall in love without having some temptation.

You can mitigate the risk, e.g. date practicing Catholic women, avoid being alone together in private, but, if you fall in love with a woman, you will be tempted. That’s how God made us.

God Bless

 

[bilop]

It is not a question of faith, only the avoidance of an occasion of sin. Dating is unique in this regard for me. It is tinged with an element of sexuality that I am frankly not the least bit comfortable with.

Well, you need to get comfortable with it if you’re going to get married. Even perfectly chaste dating must have an element of sexuality, b/c you are choosing your sexual partner, until death do you part.

Don’t view sexuality as bad, only the inappropriate expression.

God Bless

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It is not a question of faith, only the avoidance of an occasion of sin. Dating is unique in this regard for me. It is tinged with an element of sexuality that I am frankly not the least bit comfortable with.

Get some counseling. Human beings do have sex, and eventually, your wife will expect it.