Luther was right

[DeusVult09]

How on earth does previously being a Pentecostal “qualify” you to comment on Luther? I didn’t know Pentecostals were about to become Lutheran.
You base your characterization - your judgement, as it were - on what? How much of his writings about the Jews have you read? How much have you read about the terrible anti-judaism of the Catholic Church of that time did you review before converting?

How much of Luther’s Small Catechism did you read when your were a Pentecostal? How about his commentary on the Eighth Commandment?

Cite for me which Luther translation “got rid of” any books of the traditional western Bible.
Are you aware of the questioning of all of these books by many good Catholic down through the ages prior to Luther? Are you aware that questioning them was permitted by the Church until Trent? Are you aware that Luther preached from Revelations late into his life?

Jon

it qualifies me because im not just some catholic who is on a Luther hating spree, i actually was a protestant (well i have been both presbyterian and pentecostal).
Luther accepted it later on but at 1st he didn’t

who the hell was he to question anything if his sola scriptura doctrines stands. That’s a huge contradiction . martin luther said “nothing but the bible” but then said “ohh apart from these books” that’s such a huge contradiction I don’t know where to begin.

 

[workingman]

**
Unfortunately; Jesus never picked any pope and He does not recognize the popes authority…do you believe that? What does the Scripture tell us?**

Tanner I know this was not directed at me but I beg to differ with you. Lets look at St. Matthew 16:16-19. Now I am about to do a unpopular thing cut and past some scripture so please forgive me. A little easier with three small children running around.

16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

18 “Thou art Peter”… As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

18 “Upon this rock”… The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7. 24, 25.

18 “The gates of hell”… That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.

19 “Loose upon earth”… The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence; the power of which is here granted.

the source is: drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm

So the Bible does show the first Pope being selected. This was not directed to anyone but Peter.

 

[Bill_Pick]

"the righteousness which {comes} from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection" :imsorry:

Tanner, I see you say you do not have a church.Have you not found one that you agree with its teaching are do you just like using you own Private interpreatation…

 

[mark_a]

Unfortunately; Jesus never picked any pope and He does not recognize the popes authority…do you believe that? What does the Scripture tell us?

Tanner- if you could focus all your hatred toward abortion or contraception, you’d be so much more than an also-ran anti-Catholic.

Give it some thought!!

 

[mark_a]

Tanner, I see you say you do not have a church.Have you not found one that you agree with its taching are do you just like using you own Private interpreatation…

Bill, I too notice more and more folks won’t claim a denomination. Its hard to blame them with the decrepid state of Christianity in the U.S.

These folks are even more disunified than the rest of U.S. Christendom, though.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Well my own Daughter has belong to 4 Baptism church and 2 ND church in the last 20 years and she just hit 40, so I cant help.

 

[Hisalone]

The question isn’t about the authority of Scripture. It’s about the authority to interpret Scripture. The Church says it is the Church. Luther says it is anyone who can read.

It became evident to Luther a bible scholar and a Catholic theologian that the bible did say what The Church claimed that it did. He wanted debate but was instead subject to be murdered so that he would be silenced. The Catholic Church acted like the Mafia, and you say this is The One True Church??

 

[Hisalone]

Well my own Daughter has belong to 4 Baptism church and 2 ND church in the last 20 years and she just hit 40, so I cant help.

She is looking for what was not provided by the Catholic Church.

 

[Tanner9188]

Tanner, I see you say you do not have a church.Have you not found one that you agree with its teaching are do you just like using you own Private interpreatation…

**I am a member of a local body, but I do not go for a particular denomination because the value of the local church comes from the Builder, which is Christ. As HisAlone implied, it is getting tougher to find the true gospel of Christ in America or Europe; and the consequences of rejecting the gospel. Even in the lapse of leadership in the church; there is no American without excuse, IMO, because we all have Bibles and many resources to aid in the study and understanding…the problem with the people is the problem with the church…they want their ears tickled.

I am Christian above all else; denomination is of no concern me just as it is not to God. I would go to a Catholic Church if they preached the gospel of Jesus Christ, but I don’t expect to be attending one anytime soon.**

 

[Convert66]

Hisalone,

Instead of merely asserting that the Church was trying to murder Luther why not assert that they are in league with the Illuminati and the NWO to enslave the Masses in a One World Socialist Utopia ruled by the Antichrist!!! .:banghead:

Do you realize that this ad hominem approach furthers nothing but dissension? Your fundamentalist traditions are beginning to show through, that severe anti-intellectualism and, well frankly, pagan vengefulness that causes otherwise good-hearted people to single out scapegoats for their own misunderstandings. I am sure that you feel justified in your little crusade here over the internet to show us all how misinformed and tired your anachronsims are, but really, do you have anything to offer the understanding of Luther’s role in the History of the West, let alone Christendom and the Church?

In the vast multiverses of the world wide web, you have found nothing more than an R.C. Sproul video and an assertion that your interpretation of the Scriptures, even though far different than Luther’s, is proof that Luther was right about Sola Scriptura?

My 8-year old LIES better than that!

What are your credentials? Are you so proud that you assert your own authority over that of countless scholars and theologians who have devoted their lives to these issues, including Luther?

I will ask of you the same questions I asked Tanner, and he curiously refrained from answering. How do you know the Holy Spirit is confirming your interpretation of the Scriptures? Do you get a warm, fuzzy feeling? Burning in the Bosom? You sleep better? Dreams and visions? A majority of independent TBN preachers agree with you? Calvin agrees with you on all five TULIPs? The Salvation Army rings a bell? What is it?

Please . . .do, tell.

 

[Sellers1]

Tanner, I see you say you do not have a church.Have you not found one that you agree with its teaching are do you just like using you own Private interpreatation…

You guys are like a broken record. Sola Scriptura, private interpretation, 33,000 Protestant denominations. Can’t you come up with some other bullet points to throw at us? This is getting boring.

 

[josie_L]

You guys are like a broken record. Sola Scriptura, private interpretation, 33,000 Protestant denominations. Can’t you come up with some other bullet points to throw at us? This is getting boring.

Then leave.

 

[josie_L]

You need to get a copy of “Foxes Book of Martyr’s” ; so you can see both sides. Your Church has more than enough blood and other things on its hands; that one day will be judged by God IMO.

By the way “Foxes Book of Martyr’s” has been debunked along time ago by historians studying that time period. IMO you are poorly educated in history.

 

[bklynbrat]

You guys are like a broken record. Sola Scriptura, private interpretation, 33,000 Protestant denominations. Can’t you come up with some other bullet points to throw at us? This is getting boring.

Talk about the pot…

Btw Hisalone, you haven’t given me your answer to which church has all the doctrines correct yet.

I just want to say that I admire the stamina most here have with dealing with anti-Catholics. I learn quite a bit from you. Thank you. That goes for Catholics & non-Catholics alike btw.

 

[Hisalone]

Hisalone,

Instead of merely asserting that the Church was trying to murder Luther why not assert that they are in league with the Illuminati and the NWO to enslave the Masses in a One World Socialist Utopia ruled by the Antichrist!!! .:banghead:

Do you realize that this ad hominem approach furthers nothing but dissension? Your fundamentalist traditions are beginning to show through, that severe anti-intellectualism and, well frankly, pagan vengefulness that causes otherwise good-hearted people to single out scapegoats for their own misunderstandings. I am sure that you feel justified in your little crusade here over the internet to show us all how misinformed and tired your anachronsims are, but really, do you have anything to offer the understanding of Luther’s role in the History of the West, let alone Christendom and the Church?

In the vast multiverses of the world wide web, you have found nothing more than an R.C. Sproul video and an assertion that your interpretation of the Scriptures, even though far different than Luther’s, is proof that Luther was right about Sola Scriptura?

My 8-year old LIES better than that!

What are your credentials? Are you so proud that you assert your own authority over that of countless scholars and theologians who have devoted their lives to these issues, including Luther?

I will ask of you the same questions I asked Tanner, and he curiously refrained from answering. How do you know the Holy Spirit is confirming your interpretation of the Scriptures? Do you get a warm, fuzzy feeling? Burning in the Bosom? You sleep better? Dreams and visions? A majority of independent TBN preachers agree with you? Calvin agrees with you on all five TULIPs? The Salvation Army rings a bell? What is it?

Please . . .do, tell.

Are U nuts?
Watch the links I provided in the first post. The Catholic Church murdered many. Are you concerned with decency and honor? Study the dirty deeds your Church has done.
Stop defending the dishonorable.

 

[josie_L]

Apostolic succession is made up theology that cannot be shown from Scripture; the Holy Spirit is one one that provides the spiritual gifts of pastoring, teaching, giving etc to INDIVIDUALS that make up the body, which is the church of God; he left no other provision for “church”; no where is Roman Catholic church ever mentioned explicitly or implicitly…do you believe that? Do you believe that? Do
you?

Of course, apostolic succession is made up . . . . . by God. Would it make sense for Jesus to teach and authorize the apostles to preach His word only to have that interpretation die out upon the death of his apostles/disciples? No way. God in his infinite wisdom through apostolic succession (those who were handpicked by the apostles to become Bishops would then teach those who would be their successors all that was handed down to them and so on and so forth) would keep the necessary interpretation of scripture within the church through the bishops in an unbroken line leading straight to the apostles who were taught by Christ. There is proof that apostolic succession is indeed scriptural, look at Acts 1 15-26 wherein Peter and those assembled choose Matthias to replace Judas’s office:

“And they prayed and said, “Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this **ministry and apostleship **from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place.” And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.”

It is God alone that calls a person to preach and/or teach…Do you believe that?

**No, I don’t believe that as not everyone as the capacity to do these things. Here’s why:

"Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church **God has appointed ** first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having giftsof healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
1 Corinthians 12: 27-31

Then there is this statement from St. Paul about the apostles of Christ:

“So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God.” 1 Corinthians 4:1

What are these secret things that St. Paul is refering to, it is the very interpretation of scripture handed down to them by Christ, i.e., Sacred Tradition. That is why it is essential for apostolic succession to exist as these “secret things of God” would then be given to someone worthy of the office of bishopric (handpicked by the apostles) to keep the Sacred Tradition (of Sacred Scripture) of the Church. **

What is the church? In your opinion? What is God’s definition of “the church”?

**The Church is one, holy, catholic and apostolic, and it is visible (as well as invisible) it has a hierarchical structure wherein bishops who were/are the successors of the apostles relay “the secret things of God” to the laity, and we as laity must follow sacred tradition/sacred scripture in order that Christ’s true message should not be tainted by lies. All people within the Church have a specific role to play (appointed by God) so not all can be apostles, not all can be prophets, not all can be teachers . . . etc. We all must be part of Christ’s church.

The Holy Spirit leads the Church because Jesus promised the apostles (and their successors) that they would be led into all truth by “the one who will come after me”.**

 

[Convert66]

Hisalone,

Was that an answer? Is it too difficult? Neither you, nor Tanner will answer.

Are U nuts?
Watch the links I provided in the first post.

I know about RC Sproul. At one time, long ago, I studied with a friend at Ligonier.

The Catholic Church murdered many. Are you concerned with decency and honor? Study the dirty deeds your Church has done.
Stop defending the dishonorable.

You do the rabid, atheist bit pretty well. Professional?

I suppose that very soon you will lead us in a litany of American atrcoities against the Natives and African slaves? Don’t leave out the Hispanics, the Chinese, those firebombings of Tokyo and the CIA plots against 3rd world “democracy” movements, not to mention the subjugation of women, Jews and transgendered Disney characters. Well, are you going to defend your bloody Nation’s history or not?

How much blood did the Protestants shed? Are you responsible for the Witch trials of Europe and Salem? Did your Protestant ancestors murder Catholics wholesale during the Tudor and Elizabethan periods and murder Catholics in Ireland?

Why didn’t you protest!!! How can you vote for those mean republicans? Are you a fascist?

See how silly it is?

You are hung with the same rope you’re swinging.

 

[josie_L]

Are U nuts?
Watch the links I provided in the first post. The Catholic Church murdered many. Are you concerned with decency and honor? Study the dirty deeds your Church has done.
Stop defending the dishonorable.

Are you concerned with truth because if you were you would not believe such lies (Foxes Book of Martyrs)?

 

[josie_L]

Hisalone,

Was that an answer? Is it too difficult? Neither you, nor Tanner will answer.

I know about RC Sproul. At one time, long ago, I studied with a friend at Ligonier.

You do the rabid, atheist bit pretty well. Professional?

I suppose that very soon you will lead us in a litany of American atrcoities against the Natives and African slaves? Don’t leave out the Hispanics, the Chinese, those firebombings of Tokyo and the CIA plots against 3rd world “democracy” movements, not to mention the subjugation of women, Jews and transgendered Disney characters. Well, are you going to defend your bloody Nation’s history or not?

How much blood did the Protestants shed? Are you responsible for the Witch trials of Europe and Salem? Did your Protestant ancestors murder Catholics wholesale during the Tudor and Elizabethan periods and murder Catholics in Ireland?

Why didn’t you protest!!! How can you vote for those mean republicans? Are you a fascist?

See how silly it is?

You are hung with the same rope you’re swinging.

:clapping:

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Then leave.

Bump!

I’m with you, Josie. When I find something boring, I leave! It’s also funny how an anti-Catholic like this calls us broken records when he recycles the same “Catholics are hate-mongers,” ‘pedophile priest!’ and ‘Catholics are not inclusive, just exclusive’ tired yawn-laden arguments. That’s not a broken record?

Like the old saying goes, ‘don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!’