Lutheran/Catholic Relationship advice

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Either the Catholic Church is the Church begun by Christ or it is not.

If She is, then, all the Christian groups that have splintered off her may have a portion of the truth, but, they do not possess the fulness of truth.

It seems that many posters here have fallen into indifferentialism. The Catholic Church IS the Christian Church. There is no such thing as “converting from Christian to Catholic”.

Truth matters.

Marry someone of your own Faith. To do anything else is begging for problems in the marriage.
 
It looks to me like the difference is religious beliefs is significant for the two of you. Significant to the point that it comes out even before marriage. I firmly believe that you have to address it before you get married.

Addressing the problem does not mean that you should reach a compromise with his or your conversion. It means that both of you are clear about your religious positions, that you accept that neither one will change, and that you understand that when you will have children things will be much more difficult because they will follow only one of the parent’s beliefs or become completely indifferent to religion.

In my opinion the decision to change religion just to get married it is wishy washy position that someone is willing to take just to satisfy a narcissistic desire. A mature person would stand his/her ground and work with the partner to accept the differences as permanent. I think that your approach of studying each other religions is quite mature because it will give you a base to see if you can live with those differences the rest of your life.

Planning to change someone or hoping for someone to change in order to have a successful marriage is a really bad idea. It is as bad as living with someone while waiting for the real Mr./Mrs. Right to come along.
 
That’s not a Catholic way of looking at things. A Catholic explicitly promises to raise their children as Catholics. A Catholic cannot agree to baptize their child in “another” denomination. So, the example you have given is not one of “working it out” but rather an example of a Catholic foregoing all the obligations of a Catholic and allowing their child to be raised as a non-Catholic.
(Just to be clear this is not necessarily directed at you, 1ke. I see it all over this board.)

This is where I get lost every single time this issue comes up because it is not consistant with what is taught in the Catholic Church. I understand that long as you baptize in the Trinitarian formula it didn’t matter which “denomination” you were baptized in. I get that the religious education most likely won’t be Catholic (although those of us on this board won’t know that since we aren’t in the family) but the baptism thing really irks me.

One baptism, right?
 
(Just to be clear this is not necessarily directed at you, 1ke. I see it all over this board.)

This is where I get lost every single time this issue comes up because it is not consistant with what is taught in the Catholic Church. I understand that long as you baptize in the Trinitarian formula it didn’t matter which “denomination” you were baptized in. I get that the religious education most likely won’t be Catholic (although those of us on this board won’t know that since we aren’t in the family) but the baptism thing really irks me.

One baptism, right?
You are correct about the validity of a Trinitarian baptism; however Catholics must follow canon law for a licit baptism.
 
You are correct about the validity of a Trinitarian baptism; however Catholics must follow canon law for a licit baptism.
What is that canon law and what does it say? What is different about a Catholic baptism from a Trinitarian baptism? And if it is different, then why does the Catholic Church not rebaptize you if you convert?

I have been to both Catholic and non-Catholic baptisms and they are identical.
 
I am Catholic and am dating someone that is a Lutheran. We have been dating for about 16 months. We’ve struggled from day one with our religious differences, and I knew it was going to be an issue down the road. Now that we are at the point where we feel like we would like to get married at some point in the near future and are right for each other. However, we know have to come to some sort of agreement on our religious differences. I know that some people stay their respective denominations and get married, but we feel like we need to be unified in our beliefs before marriage. Even if we decided that being different denominations was ok, I don’t feel it is fair to him to say we have to raise our children Catholic, when he believes so strongly in his Lutheran faith.

We will not be able to explore each others denominations by going to any classes at each others churches until July (due to living/job situations). He says that he would be willing to become Catholic if he can’t find any dogmas and doctrines that he disagrees with. However, he wants me to be open to becoming Lutheran just as he is being open to possibly becoming Catholic, but I am having a very hard time with this because I feel at home in the Catholic church. He has also stated that if he becomes Catholic, that if later down the road, the Catholic church comes out with a doctrine he does not believe is correct, that he should not be bound by this and so he would possibly have to rethink being Catholic.

I think it would be such a shame to have to end something this good when our denominations are so close in their respective beliefs. However, I don’t want to ruin the rest of my life by marrying someone that I can’t be in complete unity with. I am looking for any wisdom or advice anyone can provide. Thank you!
I only read the first couple of replies, so my apologies if I am repeating something.

To me, from reading your post, it really seems that your faith and denomination is very important to BOTH of you, which is already starting to be a problem and crossroads for you both. You are probably already doing this, but really keep praying over the situation asking God for His guidance. If He means for the two of you to be together, there will be an answer to it and you will both feel at peace with the decision. But if you are still having a difficult time with the decision and feeling unbalanced, then perhaps you both may have to rethink getting married.

I come from a family which has had many interfaith marriages. Usually, though, it was the non-Catholic who wasn’t that into his denomination, whereas the women were very devout Catholics. So, their marriages worked out very well. My grandfather was raised Lutheran, btw, and married my very devout Catholic grandmother. He was not a practicing Lutheran, although had a deep faith in God. He agreed to help raise their six children Catholic and was always there for them when it came time for their sacraments and even for their religion classes. But it wasn’t until shortly before he passed away that he was starting to prepare himself to become a Catholic. He was actually going to start taking RCIA classes before he passed away. We believe that through my grandmother’s consistent and devout faith over the years, it brought him to see how he wanted to also share her faith. It may have never happened had he not married her.

On the opposite end, though, I have seen marriages in my family fail because both were so strong in their spiritual belief system (or lack of spiritual faith) and it caused problems. That wasn’t the only problem, but it added to the fire. One in particular, the wife became a born-again Christian and was constantly trying to “save” her husband. They eventually divorced and it was pretty nasty. I’ve seen spouses trying to convert the other and it never ends pretty unless the spouse gives in. That’s one thing my grandmother never did. She never tried to force her faith on him. She believed in praying for my grandfather and her own faith and actions were to be proof for him - and it worked. It took a while, but sometimes “slow and steady wins the race.” They were perhaps the most in love and devoted couple I knew to the very end. (50+ years of marriage.)

So, I really would sit down with your boyfriend, try to be as honest with yourselves as possible and just lay it out on the table. Pray over it. Faith is very important to both of you. The last thing you want is someone to try to make you be open to converting when you are not interested in it whatsoever. If you can come to a real and honest agreement to allow each other practice each your own faith, it could work. But these decisions really have to be done with a lot of contemplation and prayer - and I’m sure you are both doing that. God bless!
 
What is that canon law and what does it say? What is different about a Catholic baptism from a Trinitarian baptism? And if it is different, then why does the Catholic Church not rebaptize you if you convert?

I have been to both Catholic and non-Catholic baptisms and they are identical.
I seriously doubt that Catholic and non-Catholic baptisms are identical! Both are probably valid but not identical and licit for Catholics.

Go to the code of canon law and read 849 - 878. It will give you a better idea of what the requirements are.
 
The statement in question was referencing a doctrine of the Church, not merely a statement of the Pope.

I stated that *the Church *is infallible, which is true. And, that if the Church presents something as a doctrine, Catholics must assent to it, which is also true.
The Dogma of the Church is infallible but we should remember that certain aspects of that can change. For the point of her boyfriends concern this shouldn’t be an issue though as the bigger “matters of Faith” haven’t really seen any change in 2000 years, just clarification.

However certain teachings have definitely changed and probably will so again in the future regarding morality and science. For example we no longer teach Augustine or Aquinas’ views on sexuality… we know they are wrong.
 
I seriously doubt that Catholic and non-Catholic baptisms are identical! Both are probably valid but not identical and licit for Catholics.

Go to the code of canon law and read 849 - 878. It will give you a better idea of what the requirements are.
As long at it uses the trintarian formula it’s valid and licit. Almost all Christian churches use the same formula. There are differences though but nothing that would make it invalid.

Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican etc… are pretty much exactly like a Catholic Baptism with almost no differences.

Baptist and most “Bible churches” there are few different question and it’s not as formal but still has the same key elements.

Oneness Pentacostal’s though are no valid or licit as they Baptize only in the name of Jesus… which I find odd since that is not what Jesus said to…

Joe
 
I seriously doubt that Catholic and non-Catholic baptisms are identical! Both are probably valid but not identical and licit for Catholics.

Go to the code of canon law and read 849 - 878. It will give you a better idea of what the requirements are.
Then why don’t they baptize you again when you enter the Church as an adult if its not licit unless its a Catholic baptism?

Guess the Vatican missed that one :rolleyes:
 
As long at it uses the trintarian formula it’s valid and licit. …
Please provide the documentation where it shows that it is licit for Catholics to be baptized in a manner non consistent with canon law!
 
Then why don’t they baptize you again when you enter the Church as an adult if its not licit unless its a Catholic baptism?

Guess the Vatican missed that one :rolleyes:
Please read more about the difference between valid vs. licit sacraments. There are a lot of threads in CAF that give plenty of examples. The law for licit sacraments applies to Catholics only, not to Protestants.
 
Then why don’t they baptize you again when you enter the Church as an adult if its not licit unless its a Catholic baptism?

Guess the Vatican missed that one :rolleyes:
Valid and licit are two different things.

A baptism with water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is valid.

If a person is in danger of death, and asks me to baptize them in the mall parking lot, as long as I have some water and say the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, son and holy spirit” that person has a valid baptism.

It is not the licit way for a person to be baptized, that would be in a Church by a Priest or Deacon or Bishop.

Baptism can be valid and illicit.
 
my dad was a non practicing catholic and my mom a non practicing lutheran, but somehow they decided to raise my sister and i in the episcopal church.

you could always compromise and be neither catholic or lutheran and joint the episcopal church.

my parents didn’t have the best relationship. whether it was because my father came from a catholic background and my mother a protestant one, i don’t know. even if they didn’t attend church, something kept one or the other from joining the other one’s church.

that pretty much defined their marriage. they couldn’t agree on much. they both looked at life from a different perspective is how i always saw it. my dad was fun loving and my mother was afraid to have fun.
 
My thought is that you are doing a great thing by figuring out how you will resolve this before marriage. It’s scary to admit your beliefs may come between the two of you, but important that you acknowledge it now and not later.

If you are talking marriage, this is a serious relationship. However, your decision at the moment is not whether or not you should get married, but whether or not you should invest any more time into a relationship with potentially irreconcilable differences. Basically, is the hope of a united marriage together worth the risk of wasting your time and possibly greater heartbreak later if it doesn’t work out? And if so (I get the impression that you do want to keep trying), how do you navigate the current obstacles while being true to your faith?

I think that a good thing for you to do would be to learn about the Lutheran church while being completely honest with your boyfriend that you don’t expect to convert but are being as open-minded as you can, and help him understand why you are so attached to the Catholic church (the Real Presence? belief that it is the Church Christ instituted? it has the fullness of truth? etc.). Encourage him to try RCIA, and go yourself to any conversion programs the Lutherans might offer. Don’t forget to research Catholicism yourself, along with Lutheranism, so you get the whole picture, and maybe seek counsel from a priest as well. I also think both of you should pray heavily during this time of conversion for God to lead you both to the Church He wants you to be in. If you truly believe that the Catholic church is Christ’s Church on earth, then you can trust that God will not let you go.

I think you should continue to pursue this relationship, especially since he is willing to consider conversion. But you should absolutely have a religion game plan especially for how your children will be raised before you get married - and this will be easier if you have a shared faith. My husband and I were able to do this without his conversion, but he is agnostic and is basically open-minded without opinions on religion, so raising the children Catholic wasn’t a big deal for him. This is much harder when both spouses have strong, different religious views.

Above all, pray to God about whether or not this is the man He wants you to marry. Trust Him to provide the answers about how His Will for you will work out, whether God moves you to pursue marriage or move on.

May God bless you and guide you, and Christ’s peace be in your heart. I know this is difficult.

-LFL
 
For what it’s worth, I became Catholic after meeting my boyfriend who was Catholic. I was a born and raised Lutheran. WELS to be specific. We had been dating for around a year when I finally decided to switch to Catholicism. We obviously had been talking about our different faiths for the whole time we had been dating, and after researching I decided that Catholicism was drawing me in.
Now we’ve been together for 4 1/2 years and talk about marriage.
There is one book that I loved reading during my decision time. It’s called “There We Stood, Here We Stand” by Timothy Drake. It’s the stories of 11 Protestants who decide to become Catholic, a good read and not too long either. Perhaps your boyfriend would like to read it?

Obviously switching faiths is something to be taken seriously and thought out, but if I were you, I would not leave the Catholic faith. There are just so many things I don’t agree with in the Lutheran church that I belonged to, that I could never go back.

I could write my whole journey story but I don’t know that you’d want to read all that lol.
 
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