Lutheran Faith Questions

[Jean_1958]

DD2007,

It sounds as if you don’t feel very comfortable in your present parish. If there are other Catholic parishes in your area, maybe you could check them out. If not, then again I encourage your to speak to your priest about your concerns.

It was 31 years ago when my daugher was baptized. She was four monthes old. We only waited that long because the chosen godmother was out of the country. It is my understanding that baptism should be sought as soon as possible. I did not have to go through a class before my daughter’s baptism. It’s up to the individual priest as to how the matter is approached. Perhaps, the priest of you parish just wants to insure that parents/godparents are aware of the seriousness of what baptism means/confers. It is the responsibility of the priest to ensure that the parents really do intend to bring up the child in the Catholic faith.

The seven sacraments are Biblical. They confer God’s grace and stamp us with an indelible mark. I know at times it can seem like the RCC puts “rules and regulations” before a personal relationship with God . But this is not so! It is because our relationship with Jesus Christ is so important that the Church helps us to define that relationship.

I was always taught that marriage was a sacred bond and was devasted by my divorce. The RCC teaches that “a valid, sacramental marraige between two baptized Christians is permanent. No power on earth can dissolve it.It remains until the death of one of the spouses.” (The New Catholic Answer Bilbe, pg K-2). An annulment is not the same as a civil divorce. An annulment declares that there was never a valid, sacramental marriage to begin with and the individual(s) are free to marry.

I don’t know your background and how well you were taught the Catholic faith. There are a lot of good books out there that might answer these questions better than I could. I would recommend THE NEW CATHOLIC ANSWER BIBLE, the CCC, and anything written by Scott Hahn.

I know that you love the Lord and your family. I pray that the Holy Spirit comfort and guide you.

God Bless,

Jean

 

[Jean_1958]

DD2007,

The RCC does not teach that an annulment makes the children illegitimate.

Jean

 

[DD2007]

DD2007,

It sounds as if you don’t feel very comfortable in your present parish. If there are other Catholic parishes in your area, maybe you could check them out. If not, then again I encourage your to speak to your priest about your concerns.

It was 31 years ago when my daugher was baptized. She was four monthes old. We only waited that long because the chosen godmother was out of the country. It is my understanding that baptism should be sought as soon as possible. I did not have to go through a class before my daughter’s baptism. It’s up to the individual priest as to how the matter is approached. Perhaps, the priest of you parish just wants to insure that parents/godparents are aware of the seriousness of what baptism means/confers. It is the responsibility of the priest to ensure that the parents really do intend to bring up the child in the Catholic faith.

The seven sacraments are Biblical. They confer God’s grace and stamp us with an indelible mark. I know at times it can seem like the RCC puts “rules and regulations” before a personal relationship with God . But this is not so! It is because our relationship with Jesus Christ is so important that the Church helps us to define that relationship.

I was always taught that marriage was a sacred bond and was devasted by my divorce. The RCC teaches that “a valid, sacramental marraige between two baptized Christians is permanent. No power on earth can dissolve it.It remains until the death of one of the spouses.” (The New Catholic Answer Bilbe, pg K-2). An annulment is not the same as a civil divorce. An annulment declares that there was never a valid, sacramental marriage to begin with and the individual(s) are free to marry.

I don’t know your background and how well you were taught the Catholic faith. There are a lot of good books out there that might answer these questions better than I could. I would recommend THE NEW CATHOLIC ANSWER BIBLE, the CCC, and anything written by Scott Hahn.

I know that you love the Lord and your family. I pray that the Holy Spirit comfort and guide you.

God Bless,

Jean

Thank you Jean.

As far as the Baptism is concerned. I realized during mass yesterday I don’t have anyone to be the child’s godparents, unless the church will accept Lutheran’s and Baptists as godparents. I am the only Catholic in my family, other than a cousin I don’t really know who lives about 600 miles away. I have only seen him twice. My first child’s godparents were a catholic I served with in the military and a non catholic friend of my ex wife’s. I don’t even know any catholics anymore. I knew some people in my old parish but not very well and I have since moved. So in the Church I am alone. I don’t even know if they will baptize my son after I tell them this at the class.

I agree with 95% of what the Church teaches. I don’t agree with the way they handle administration nor do I agree with the celibacy of the priesthood. I think that is why we have a grave shortage of priests.

I noticed that the Lutheran’s teach 95% of what the church teaches. I am very tempted in that direction. I’m the only Catholic in my family. My conversion to the Church was not popular with them anyway. I love the Church, but I don’t see why the Lutheran Church is different. They teach basically the same things without all of the red tape attached. They even maintain that they are Catholic as well.

It’s a confusing time for me. I love the Church, but I love Christ more. I hope I’m doing the right things. It’s a confusing situation. I hope I can figure it out without having to leave.

 

[Tonks40]

DD2007 -

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but it seems like to me you’re looking for a church that will do something for you. Why don’t you do something for God? Yes, trying to receive nullity of marriage is a very difficult process (I should know), but can you afford being without the Sacraments available to us in the Church?

If I were you, instead of thinking, try praying about it. Spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament and ask Christ if what you are pondering is about you or about Him. Remind yourself again why you converted to the One True Church. Study more if you have to.

As for your parish, people choose to get involved in parish life - others are content in attending Mass and worshiping. If you feel like you’re being neglected in the parish, why not get involved? Priest do seem like they are busy ALL the time - that doesn’t mean that they are not available to you. Make an appointment with your priest and see if you can talk to him about your concerns. Their job in a parish is to provide pastoral care to members of the Church, not just to confer the Sacraments.

Being a revert, I could have easily let my own narcissistic tendencies envelope me to the point where I couldn’t see the need for being in the Church. We have been granted the grace to have our Faith move us…we should show our Lord our appreciation for that grace by moving ourselves.

God Bless.

 

[Erich]

As Pastors ordain one another there is an unbroken line! I can’t believe I’m saying this.

I have really been questioning the validity of Holy Orders recently. Why isn’t every believing Christian with a calling from God and an ordination in their branch of the Christian faith able to administer the sacraments?

Pastors ordaining one another is not scriptural. The mission and the message can only be passed on by someone who first possessed it. Only a superior can do this (i.e. a validly ordained bishop), and not an inferior (i.e. a pastor), since an inferior cannot pass on what he does not already possess.

Check out By What Authority? for a much more thorough explanation.

 

[Erich]

Yes I am aware but many believe (myself included) that their orders have been comprimised by women’s ordination.

Actually their orders were compromised hundreds of years earlier. From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Anglican clergy are thus the creation of this Ordinal, and, primarily, the validity of their orders is dependent on its sufficiency — that is, on its sufficiency in its earlier form, for if that be wanting, the Apostolical succession must have lapsed long before 1662, and could not be resuscitated by the additions then made. It was on this consideration of the character of the Edwardine rite that the Holy See based its definitive decree of 1896.

 

[Erich]

My father in law says that we should take the Eucharist to strengthen us. He told me that no one has the authority to keep one from Christ.

From Who Can Receive Communion?

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

Another reason that many non-Catholics may not ordinarily receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: “For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died” (1 Cor. 11:29–30).

 

[Jean_1958]

No one seems very happy in the Catholic Church.

I ama VERY HAPPY Catholic and s is my daughter. Some of my co-workers are Catholic and are VERY HAPPY Catholics as well.

When my daughter decided to be an “on fire Catholic” again and attend mass once a week again, we looked around for a Catholic church that she found comfortable in and one that had a lot of stuff where she could become involved. It was also important to her to be able to connect with people more her age. (She’s 31 now, but was 27 at the time.) After some shopping around (and heartfelt prayer) she decided to try St. Paul The Apostle. We had been there a few times when they were first starting out in an elementray school gym so my daughter already had an idea of what it was like. My daughter has really fallen in love with St. Paul and has been pretty active within the parish.

As I said prior, perhaps you need to look for another Catholic church. One in which you feel more comfortable in. Given the right parish, I feel you can be quite happy as a Catholic.

I don’t even really know anyone there.

Until my daughter and I became involved, we did not really know anyone at St. Paul either. Try getting involved in something. Reach out. Get to know your fellow parishoners better. The same would apply to Protestant churches as well. People need to become active and speak to their fellow church-goers in order to know someone.

While it is good to know someone, you also need to bare in mind why you’re going there. Knowing someone is only part of it and not necessarily the most important part of it. We go to church to worship God and as long as you have a good relationship with God and get something out of going, knowing someone is not necessarily relevant.

The priests are always busy. The admin people in the office are sometimes nice and sometimes I feel like I’m at the IRS and should take a number!

Priests have a job to do! So do Protestant ministers. The same goes for the office people. I suppose there are some Protestant people who are also saying that about their ministers and office people.

Again, I suggest you look for another Catholic church. Not only a Catholic church where you feel more comfortable and become involved in, but one that treats you more like a person rather than a number. Those churches DO exist. I and my daughter’s church, St. Paul, is one of them!

How much money does the Church waste on unnecessary bureaucracy that could be going to do good.

Unfortunately, there will always be some bureacracy, even at a Proestant church. However, I can attest to the fact that the Catholic Church, despite he bureacracy, does A LOT of good for people whether they are Catholic or not.

Every year Catholic Charities helps thousands of people through their various programs like Meals on Wheels and the Christmas Gift Program. (St. Paul participates in the Christmas Gift Program and my daughter and I buy gifts for needy people EVERY Christmas.) In addition various archdiocese and parishes do their own community service projects from running food pantries for the less fortunate to collecting money for women’s centers to asking parishoners to donate Bibles to send overseas to poor people in remote regions who would not otherwise have a Bible. St. Paul has a terrific community outreach committee who is very good at coming up with community service projects. Our RE coordinators are also very adeot at getting our young people involved through food drives, coat drives, among other things. And you can’t forget about such wonderful oragnizations like the St. Vincent De Paul Society.

Desite whatever you think, I know, as does my daughter and others here, that the Catholic Church does an enormous amount of good each and every year for millions upon millions of people.

A BIG God Bless to you!

Jean

 

[Erich]

I’m feeling strange about the Church right now because I don’t understand why they have to go through this complicated process and why they just don’t take my word for it.

From Answering Common Questions about Annulments

…an annulment is an official determination by an ecclesiastical tribunal that what appeared to be a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church was not…

…Divorce destroys something that was; Annulments recognize that something never was…

…The duration of a marriage is not proof of its validity or invalidity and can be used as evidence of either. An annulment case focuses on what happened prior to, and at the time of, the wedding. Any post-wedding evidence, such as the length of the marriage, is useful only to the degree that it helps illuminate the parties’ status and actions in getting married…

…The presence of children is not proof that a marriage was valid, and the absence of children is not proof that it was invalid…

Any children born of a marriage which is annulled remain as they have been: the legitimate and fruitful offspring of that marriage. Canon Law upholds this reality (Canons 1137-1138). One must always remember that children are part of God’s creation and thus are gifts from God. The term “legitimacy” refers to the paternity of the child. It is presumed in civil law and Canon Law that the husband married to the wife who bore a child is indeed the father of the child. No one nor any declaration of nullity can ever take away the paternity of a child.

 

[Jean_1958]

I agree with 95% of what the Church teaches. I don’t agree with the way they handle administration nor do I agree with the celibacy of the priesthood. I think that is why we have a grave shortage of priests.

Actually, I do not think celibacy is why there is a shortage of priests. It may be part of it, but not the sole reason behind it.

I think the other part to this lies within a greater need to engage the young people of the Catholic Churh and get them to understand the importance of priesthood and nunship and why they should enter it.

I know when my daughter and I taught CCD (RE), we tried to really hit home with vocation. While many of our children knew what a priest and deacon was, for example, many were totally clueless as to what a nun was. My daughter and I had to explain to them what a nun was.

Our Protestant brothers and sisters are very good at engaging the young folk and ushering them into ministry and missionary work. This is something the Catholic Church falters on and has been trying very hard to change over the years and they still have a ways to go with this.

I noticed that the Lutheran’s teach 95% of what the church teaches. I am very tempted in that direction.

They even maintain that they are Catholic as well.

But it is NOT the Catholic Church. They may have elements that ARE Catholic, but that is where it ends.

I suggest you pray upon this.

It’s a confusing time for me. I love the Church, but I love Christ more. I hope I’m doing the right things. It’s a confusing situation. I hope I can figure it out without having to leave.

I think you should really read up on your faith as a Catholic and get to know it better.

Again, I recommend ANYTHING by Scott Hahn. If you get EWTN, i also suggest Marcus Grodi’s Journey Home (Mondays @ 7 PM CST, 8 PM EST). You will learn A LOT from Marcus and his guests and hopefully really rethink this through.

I know this is a confusing time for you so go slow, think, and really pray hard about it.

You can love Christ and the Catholic Church.

A BIG God Bless to you!

Jean

 

[Jean_1958]

Given the marriage issues, the difficulty of obtaining the sacraments, and the overall feeling I’m getting from the Church, and the disregard for the needs of the flock by the Catholic Church authorities, I am seriously thinking about joining the Lutheran Faith. At least they don’t keep people from Christ as a punishment.

You may want to reconsider the last thing you said.

My cousin Dee was Lutheran and when she divoriced her first husband the Lutheran church refused to allow her to remarry in the Lutheran faith when she met the man who would become her second husband. This, quite obviously, had her converting to the Baptist faith given her second husband is Baptist and is currently an ordianed Baptist minister.

Marriage is just as much a sacrament in the Lutheran Church as it is the Catholic Church.

A BIG God Bless to you!

Jean

 

[DD2007]

**Pastors ordaining one another is not scriptural. ** The mission and the message can only be passed on by someone who first possessed it. Only a superior can do this (i.e. a validly ordained bishop), and not an inferior (i.e. a pastor), since an inferior cannot pass on what he does not already possess.

Check out By What Authority? for a much more thorough explanation.

Why not? I have always questioned this. Especially when I think about this passage:

Matthew 18:19-20

[19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
[20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

 

[DD2007]

I think you should really read up on your faith as a Catholic and get to know it better.

Again, I recommend ANYTHING by Scott Hahn. If you get EWTN, i also suggest Marcus Grodi’s Journey Home (Mondays @ 7 PM CST, 8 PM EST). You will learn A LOT from Marcus and his guests and hopefully really rethink this through.

I know this is a confusing time for you so go slow, think, and really pray hard about it.

You can love Christ and the Catholic Church.

A BIG God Bless to you!

Jean

Thank you. I’ll do what I can to honestly consider the best course of action. I appreciate your advice.

 

[DD2007]

You may want to reconsider the last thing you said.

My cousin Dee was Lutheran and when she divoriced her first husband the Lutheran church refused to allow her to remarry in the Lutheran faith when she met the man who would become her second husband. This, quite obviously, had her converting to the Baptist faith given her second husband is Baptist and is currently an ordianed Baptist minister.

Marriage is just as much a sacrament in the Lutheran Church as it is the Catholic Church.

A BIG God Bless to you!

Jean

I understand. I believe that mine is null as my ex said she never loved me and then proved it by committing adultery and divorcing me.

I don’t need an exhaustive tribunal to judge me.

I have more issues than just this one. I’m having a crisis of faith. Not faith in God, I believe and trust in Him, but faith in the Church. I doubt the authority of the Church very much.

 

[Jean_1958]

Pastors ordaining one another is not scriptural.

Why not?

A better question yet is why does the Catholic Church ordain priests?

In Leviticus, chapter 9, God commands Moses, as part of the old covenant, to ordain a specialized, professional priesthood to offer sacrifices for the people. Later on, Jesus, as part of the new covenant in His blood (Luke 22:20), establishes a new ordianed priesthood for the Church and gives its members the authority and power to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (Luke 22:14-20).

Yes, all Christians share in a common “holy priesthood” when it comes to offering “spiritual sacrifices” (1 Peter 2:5) such as prayer, almsgiving (Hebrews 13:15-16), and faith in Jesus (Philippians 2:17), however, the special mission that Christ gave to his apostles, their successors, and the priests they were to ordain was not to be shared by all of his followers. (See Romans 12:4)

Non-Catholic Christians, i.e. Protestants, cite 1 Peter 2:5, 9, and Revelation 1:6 to support their claim that if the Church is “a kingdom of priests”, it cannot have a special ministerial priesthood as well. However, in these texts, 1 Peter is quoting --and Revelation is echoing-- the words of God to teh ancient Hebrews as recorded in Exodus 19:6. If the Lord could refer to that entire nation as priests, even though they had an ordianed priesthood, then surely the same is true of the Church.

Hope this helps.

Jean

 

[Jean_1958]

DD2007,

I think you should pick up the NEW CATHOLIC ANSWER Bible (NAB version) by Fireside (ISBN: 1-5565-85-5). This has inserts with various questions about Catholics. Those inserts provide detailed answers and tells you not only why we do or bielieve in those things as Catholics, but where to find them in the Bible.

Hope this helps.

Jean

 

[Erich]

You may want to reconsider the last thing you said.

Marriage is just as much a sacrament in the Lutheran Church as it is the Catholic Church.

Actually, you may want to reconsider…

From the ELCA FAQs (emphasis mine):

Historically a sacrament was viewed as “an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace given to us, ordained by Christ himself, as a means whereby we receive the same, and a pledge to assure us thereof” (Anglican Catechism). Lutherans have traditionally tried for greater clarity in their definition by stating that a sacrament is an act that is commanded by Christ, uses a material or earthly element, and through connection with the Word is the bearer of God’s promise. And Lutherans have quite clearly stated that using those criteria Holy Baptism and Holy Communion qualify as sacraments, and nothing else.

From the LCMS’s Christian Cyclopedia):

Luther held that it (i.e. marriage) should be under state control, but that religious features might be connected with the wedding. Luther also held that a Christian might marry an unbeliever, even a Turk.

From the WELS Topical Q&A:

The definition of a sacrament taken from the WELS catechism used to instruct children and adults for church membership (page 229):
A sacrament is a sacred act

1. which Christ established or instituted for Christians to do;
2. in which Christ tells us to use earthly elements (water, bread, wine) together with God’s Word;
3. in which Christ offers, gives, and seals to us the forgiveness of sins and thus also life and salvation.

This is a definition based on the common elements of baptism and the Lord’s Supper that set them apart from other sacred actions that God speaks about in his word. God also instituted marriage and confession. However, these are not actions that God commands that every Christian do, nor are they activities that are means of grace. People may remain unmarried if the choose, and confession to a clergyman is something that is adviseable for Christians whose conscience is deeply troubled by some sin. There are also actions that have been instituted by men that God does not speak about in his word (last rites, ordination that is said to convey an indelible character).

Lutherans define a sacrament with the three characteristics listed above to distinguish these two sacred acts from marriage and confession so that people clearly understand the difference between the latter two and baptism and communion. Last rites and ordination including the conveying of an indelible character are included by some in a list of sacraments, but they include aspects that are contrary to Scripture.

An ordinance is something commanded for us to do. When that is the emphasis put on Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, it focuses on what we do and makes of the activity a work of man. However, the important focus of those institutions is on what God does for us in and through them. That’s the defining distinction when we call them sacraments.

Looks like marriage is not as much a sacrament in the Lutheran Church as it is the Catholic Church.

 

[Jean_1958]

Looks like marriage is not as much a sacrament in the Lutheran Church as it is the Catholic Church.

Opps. My mistake. My cousin’s Lutheran pastor refuses to marry divoriced people because he believes it’s a sacrament, but I realize this is not true of all Lutheran pastors and that the Lutheran Church does not view marriage as a scarament in the same way the Catholic Church does. So sorry. Thanks for clarifying that.

Jean

 

[rolltidefan]

I have a question, if someone here can answer it…if you go to a Lutheran church and you have been divorced, are you allowed to receive communion?

 

[JonNC]

I really haven’t looked into where women are ordained. I know that my Grandmother was a Methodist. When we went ot her funeral it was presided over my a Methodist woman pastor.

Which Lutheran Branch ordains women? I don’t know. What if the ordaining of women was only frowned on at the time because of women’s place in their society would make it a disgrace? Paul also speaks about how to treat your slaves and even writes the letter of Philemon about a slave. Does this mean that savery is ok because it’s biblical? Doubt it.

Anyway I haven’t studied the ordination of women very much and don’t know where this is done. Currently I attend a Catholic Church. I went to mass today. If I do decide to go Lutheran I’m sure it will probably be in a Church with a male pastor until I could have enough time to discern this kind of thing.

Right now I’m still in the Catholic Church. I’m just very discouraged and my light of encouragement is coming from the very unlikley source of Martin Luther’s teaching of Christ.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) ordains women. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS) does not.

Jon