Lutheran Faith Questions

[Lampo]

Why is that necessary and if it is are you prepared to claim that your church has been so exhaustive in it’s proclamations as to cover “every doctrine, dogma, discipline and interpretation of Scripture”?

I absolutely claim that the Catholic Church teaches only one set of doctrines, dogma, discipline and (when leeway isn’t allowed) interpretation of Scripture.

They didn’t need to, they were Apostles, their teaching WAS Scripture.

SOME of their teaching ended up being Scripture, which was determined by the Catholic Church I might add. The teachings that didn’t end up being Scripture can be found in the Catholic Church (i.e.Tradition.) This is also why the Church claims to have the fullness of Truth.

So are you admitting your “apostolicity of faith” subscribes to something not taught by the Apostles, thus not found in Scripture?

Looks to me like you are claiming that the Apostles didn’t need to teach sola scriptura because their teaching WAS Scripture, yet when you read their “teaching”(Scripture), sola scriptura is not in there. I don’t get it.

 

[Lampo]

For us, however, it’s all we have that we can be certain is theirs.

How are you certain that their teaching is Scripture? How are you certain that their teaching (the part written down) is inspired and inerrant? How are you certain that the writer of the Gospel Mark is Mark? How are you certain the writer of the Gospel of John is John? Who are you relying on to tell you this?

 

[Jean_1958]

By joining the Lutheran’s I don’t think I would be leaving the universal Church at all, just moving into a different room in the same house.

If I move from one room of a Catholic church to another, it is still Catholic. If I move from one room in a Lutheran room to another, it is still Lutheran. Nothing changes. You are either Lutheran or you are Catholic. Lutherans who say they are like Catholics are not really Catholic. Otherwise, they would make the leap of faith and covert to Catholicism.

I believe the Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church are part of the same Universal Church, I just want to be a member of the right one. I don’t think any denomination is 100% correct.

In verse 13 of 1 Corinthians chapter 1 Paul asked if Christ was “Is Christ divided?” The clear answer is: No, Christ is not divided! Denominational division did not come from Jesus, quite obviously, since he was NOT divided.

One of my favorite daughter’s favorite Bible verses is in the New Testament (cannot recall where), but it talks about how there should be no divisions within the Church. Yet, that is what Lutherans and other Protestants do when they disagree, especially on Scripture and how to interpret it. They just keep dividing and dividing. Do you think that is what Jesus Christ wanted when he founded His Church? For it to continuously divide like that? You have teh Missouri Synod and ELCA. If the Lutherans are so right, then why are they so divided like other Protestants (Baptists, Methodists, etc…)?

When Christ told Peter he was the rock on which he would build His Chruch, he meant it. The Bible verse does not read “churches”, “fellowships”, “sects”, “denominations”, etc… . It reads “church”. Jesus was referring to ONE church – ONE Church which embraces Tradition, Gospel, and One Body. And that is the Catholic Church. Take it or Leave it.

God Bless.

Jean

 

[Steadfast]

Lampo,

So you are prepared to say that your church has a single doctrinal stance or confession for every particular theological locus? this appears to be your test for true Catholicity.

Sola Scriptura is a theological necessity derived from the fact that there are no Apostles today and that all we have that we can be certain is their teaching is what we find in the Bible.

Are you under the impression that Protestants believe that the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura as we have it today? I certainly would not say that. Some Protestants might, but I think they’re wrong.

As for the issue of the authority of Scripture itself, it is both self-attesting to the regenerate as well as recognized and proclaimed by the church which has the proper custodianship of it.

 

[Lampo]

Lampo,

So you are prepared to say that your church has a single doctrinal stance or confession for every particular theological locus? this appears to be your test for true Catholicity.

I stand by what I said in post #61.

Sola Scriptura is a theological necessity derived from the fact that there are no Apostles today and that all we have that we can be certain is their teaching is what we find in the Bible.

How was it put into practice in the year 107AD?

Are you under the impression that Protestants believe that the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura as we have it today? I certainly would not say that. Some Protestants might, but I think they’re wrong.

I’m under the impression the Apostles did not teach SS at all.

As for the issue of the authority of Scripture itself, it is both self-attesting to the regenerate as well as recognized and proclaimed by the church which has the proper custodianship of it.

So you believe Scripture is the inspired, inerrant Word of God because the Bible says so? The Koran says the same thing. Do you believe the Koran is the inspired Word of God?

 

[JonNC]

Pastors ordaining one another is not scriptural. The mission and the message can only be passed on by someone who first possessed it. Only a superior can do this (i.e. a validly ordained bishop), and not an inferior (i.e. a pastor), since an inferior cannot pass on what he does not already possess.

Erich,
I don’t believe you can make this broad a statement and be completely accurate. In the 1400’s, Boniface VIII, Martin V, and Innocent VII all allowed ordinations by priests, including Cistercian Abbots. Now I’m no expert, but I believe this is the basis upon which Lutherans maintain the validity of their orders, along with the fact that in the early Church priests and bishops were of the same rank.

Jon

 

[Jean_1958]

DD2007,

Go to Marcus Grodi’s Coming Home Network site @ chnetwork.org/ and have a look around. Marcus Grodi is a convert to Catholicism and was Lutheran while growing up. He later became a Protestant Pastor. The CHN has a forum and that’s @ chnetwork.org/forums/ - You may be able to get more thorough answers to your questions at the CHN Forum.

God Bless.

Jean

 

[DD2007]

I don’t think the argument against Sola Scriptura does anything to support the position of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is also bound by scripture and not allowed to contradict it. Scripture is inspired by God and He trumps everyone. So it’s a mute point.

The Lutherans have a point that they cam directly from the Catholic Church which came directly from the Church that Christ founded in Jerusalem. So they have Apostolic Succession as well, and indeed call themselves Catholic as well. Catholic just means universal so actually everyone who has been baptized into Christ is a Catholic no matter what they call their particular Catholic denomination, or we could simplify the matter and call it Christian denomination, it’s the same thing. It seems to me that all are Catholic however, the Church of Rome uses the name to mean itself only. It’s like the people of the US claiming to be American while the rest of the nations of North and South America are called by their national name.

I love the Church we all call Catholic, but I just honestly don’t think I believe in everything they teach. I am hoping to hear a good reason to stay but I haven’t heard anything yet, other than arguments against Sola Scriptura that don’t make any sense since the Church is bound by Scripture anyway. So it doesn’t make a difference. It’s only an attempt to validate the teachings that are not in scripture like the Assumption, Coronation, Immaculate Conception, purgatory, indulgences, prayer through saints and angels, transubstantiation, the infallibility of the pope, Mary as Co-Mediatrix, the canon of scripture, contraception ban, marriage laws and Church administration thereof, sayings like “there is no salvation outside the Church.” These things are not in scripture and the “implicit” references I’ve heard simply do not sound like they imply these things at all. I have noticed that many times, especially in some of the older Catholic writings that quote “implicit” interpretations. St. Louis De Montfort in his True Devotion to Mary quoted some scriptures from the Song of Songs that I didn’t think had anything to do with Mary at all, but many Popes have said that his book is a great work. He wants people to consecrate themselves to Mary instead of Christ! Because he teaches that Mary will take you to Christ, and the pope thinks this is a good idea? This is not in scripture.

So, I love the Church, it’s just some of the things it claims might be a little too much for me. Am I missing anything? I really have put forth an honest effort and tried to believe these things, but the truth is they scare me and I am not comfortable with them. I think a move might be better for my relationship with Christ. I don’t know. I need to pray about it. Perhaps I should ask my wife if she would like to go to a Lutheran Church instead this Sunday?

Please don’t think I’m being rude or anything. I thrust your opinions and this site was instrumental in my original conversion to the Catholic Church and I have always came here and received the encouragement I need, I used to have another screen name years ago. This time I don’t know. I may need more than apologetics can give me. This might be a spiritual issue.

 

[Jean_1958]

IThe Lutherans have a point that they cam directly from the Catholic Church which came directly from the Church that Christ founded in Jerusalem. So they have Apostolic Succession as well, and indeed call themselves Catholic as well.

No. Lutherans do not have apostolic succession as well. Just because we “gave birth” to them and other Protestant denominations DOES NOT mean they can call themselves Catholic because they are not Catholic, they are Protestant and always will be. No amount of Catholic elements can ever change that. You are deluded to think otherwise.

Catholic just means universal so actually everyone who has been baptized into Christ is a Catholic no matter what they call their particular Catholic denomination, or we could simplify the matter and call it Christian denomination, it’s the same thing.

Catholic with a small c (catholic) means universal. Catholic with a capital C (Catholic) means of or pertaining to a Catholic church, especially the Roman Catholic Church.

It’s only an attempt to validate the teachings that are not in scripture like the Assumption, Coronation, Immaculate Conception, purgatory, indulgences, prayer through saints and angels, transubstantiation, the infallibility of the pope, Mary as Co-Mediatrix, the canon of scripture, contraception ban, marriage laws and Church administration thereof, sayings like “there is no salvation outside the Church.” These things are not in scripture and the “implicit” references I’ve heard simply do not sound like they imply these things at all.

I have given you posts where I cite Biblical reference to why we do things, like the ordination of priests. I have also told you to get the CATHOLIC ANSWERS Bible, Amy Welborn’s Prove It: Church book, and have even directed you to Marcus Grodi’s website the Coming Home Network as to where you can find detailed explanations of what we believe and why we believe in it along with the proper Biblical citations (i.e. where it can be found in Scripture). However, you seem totaly incapable of reading these sources to to see that purgatory, among other things, are actually in Scripture.

I am hoping to hear a good reason to stay but I haven’t heard anything yet, other than arguments against Sola Scriptura that don’t make any sense since the Church is bound by Scripture anyway.

Why do you need a good reason to stay from the rest of us??? You can ask our opinions if you should stay, but other than that… YOU, and YOU alone, need to come up with a good reason to stay a Catholic. That’s YOUR job – not anyone else’s! If you cannot find it, then perhaps you should convert to Lutheranism.

To be honest, I think you would be MUCH happier if you converted to Lutheranism and moved on from this. All this is doing is making you more confused and unhappy. Or so it seems.

I love the Church we all call Catholic, but I just honestly don’t think I believe in everything they teach.

Thank you for being honest with us.

You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

God Bless.

Jean

 

[DD2007]

No. Lutherans do not have apostolic succession as well. Just because we “gave birth” to them and other Protestant denominations DOES NOT mean they can call themselves Catholic because they are not Catholic, they are Protestant and always will be. No amount of Catholic elements can ever change that. You are deluded to think otherwise.

I think that Catholic is obviously the name of the denomination but all Churches with trinitarian baptism are Catholic.

Catholic with a small c (catholic) means universal. Catholic with a capital C (Catholic) means of or pertaining to a Catholic church, especially the Roman Catholic Church.

That’s just because they claimed the name. What if the Church of Antioch had claimed it first? The word means universal so Churches have always disagreed. There is an unbroken line of 'Catholic" disagreement.

I have given you posts where I cite Biblical reference to why we do things, like the ordination of priests. I have also told you to get the CATHOLIC ANSWERS Bible, Amy Welborn’s Prove It: Church book, and have even directed you to Marcus Grodi’s website the Coming Home Network as to where you can find detailed explanations of what we believe and why we believe in it along with the proper Biblical citations (i.e. where it can be found in Scripture). However, you seem totaly incapable of reading these sources to to see that purgatory, among other things, are actually in Scripture.

I’m sorry I haven’t read everything yet. I will need to investigate purchasing the books. I can review Marcus Grodi again. However, I 'm a huge fan of EWTN and Coming Home. I’ve watched for years. I just stated that those items I listed are not in scripture and I don’t understand where they get their “implicit” interpretations of some of the scriptures they have used.

Why do you need a good reason to stay from the rest of us??? You can ask our opinions if you should stay, but other than that… YOU, and YOU alone, need to come up with a good reason to stay a Catholic. That’s YOUR job – not anyone else’s! If you cannot find it, then perhaps you should convert to Lutheranism.

To be honest, I think you would be MUCH happier if you converted to Lutheranism and moved on from this. All this is doing is making you more confused and unhappy. Or so it seems.

I just came here to ask because it is Catholic Answers. That is it’s purpose to get answers to Catholic questions. I have always asked my serious questions here.

Thank you for being honest with us.

You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

God Bless.

Jean

I don’t know how you cut a single quote up so I just answered in blue above. Thanks for all your replies Jean.

 

[Jean_1958]

DD2007,

Your use and understanding of “Catholic” is somewhat disturbing and that is probably what is causing you the greatest confusion. Now that you know what the difference between Catholic and catholic is, they should be used in the proper context.

I’m sorry I haven’t read everything yet. I will need to investigate purchasing the books. I can review Marcus Grodi again. However, I 'm a huge fan of EWTN and Coming Home. I’ve watched for years. I just stated that those items I listed are not in scripture and I don’t understand where they get their “implicit” interpretations of some of the scriptures they have used.

Well, you are getting your Lutheran interpretations from somewhere…

I just came here to ask because it is Catholic Answers. That is it’s purpose to get answers to Catholic questions. I have always asked my serious questions here.

Yes, I understand that. But this is starting to grow somewhat weary. We just keep going around and and around in circles to an extent. You have been told to look into specific sources, think, and pray about this. None of which seems to have happened as of yet.

You also seem to want us to validate why you should stay Catholic and that is not really our job.

It sounds to me as if you have already made up your mind to leave the Catholic Church and become Lutheran. So, I am a little confused as to why you are staying and still persisting with this.

I really hope you come to terms with what you said earlier in that you honestly do not believe in everying we teach and cannot force yourself to have faith in the Catholic Church. Like you said, you doubt the authority of the Church very much. Which then begs the question: What’s holding you back from letting this go and converting to Lutheranism?

God Bless.

Jean

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Paraphrasing Chesterton, a Catholic convert:

We don’t need a Church that is right when we are right, we need a Church that is right when we are wrong.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

…
But, honestly, I don’t know if I believe in the Marian doctrines or not. I understand that this is tradition of the church but I find myself forcing it. I have reservations about Mary. I do not believe she is co-redemptrix. I hope the Church doesn’t make that official. I don’t think I believe she is co-mediatrix if it was that important it would have been in scripture. I think the assumption is possible, but if we were required to believe it it would be in scripture.

I love Mary, and I do believe that she is alive in Heaven with Christ and I understand how the saints can hear our prayers, but I don’t think it’s necessary to pray to Mary or the saints and it is better to pray to God the father or Jesus. I do pray the rosary now and then but I sometimes feel guilty about it and have to force myself to think that I shouldn’t and that it is good and that I am simply praying with Mary, but when I come to the Hail Holy Queen it just sounds too much like worship.

I’ve been reading the Bible a lot recently and many of our practices sound a lot like idolatry to me. It’s a bit unsettling.

I also don’t know if I actually believe in Transubstantiation. I believe in the real presence of the Lord in the Eucharist but I think it is spiritual not physical. I also don’t understand why the Church of Rome would have a monopoly on the Eucharist. I don’t believe they do and I think that the Orthodox Churches, The Anglican’s, the Lutheran’s, and some Methodist’s have the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

I think I just want to be Catholic that’s why I converted. I don’t know if there is a way I can actually force myself to have faith in the Church because I just don’t. I don’t trust them. I trust in Jesus Christ and in the Bible and my conscience tells me that if it’s not in the Bible I am not required to believe it in good faith.

But, I want to be Catholic, because I love the Mass and the tradition and believe that it is a direct unbroken line from the Church of Rome that the Epistle was written too. I believe that the successor of Peter holds a special place in the Church and should be considered in all decisions, but I do not believe he is infallible. I support his intentions as long as they are Christ centered and aimed at spreading the gospel.

I think when I joined the Catholic Church I was very weak in faith at the time. And though that God somehow would only respond to those who were ordained into this ancient Church that claims to be the only one founded by Christ. I thought I needed a mediator between me and the Lord. Now I think that the Lord loves me and wants me to make myself known to Him. I don’t need a mediator. Christ is fully sufficient for me. I place my faith in Him.

But, I want to be able to be Catholic. I want all of the Churches to join as one like Christ said in John 17. I don’t know if I regret my decision to become a Catholic or not. I was so happy after RCIA right before the divorce. I thought I had discovered the truth of everything in the Catholic Church. Since then I seem to become more disillusioned by the day.

Out of all of my apologetic and theological studies and my being a sponsor for a Lutheran of all things into the Catholic Church, yes, I have been through RCIA twice once as a candidate once as a sponsor, I have realized that the Catholic position is the hardest to evangelize. There is so much that gets in the way of people coming to the Church. Life gets in the way. It is so hard to look at people and know that for them to experience the peace of the sacraments it is almost impossible because of the time it takes and the details. There is too much bureaucracy standing in the way of Christ for the Catholic Church to be an effective servant of the Lord in this day and hour. Almost all of the Christian evangelizing and introduction to Lord is done by Protestants who invite people to come the same way Christ did, by just accepting Him.

So, I have a lot of issues right now. I’m going through a crisis of faith. I’m thinking the Lutheran’s are the best match that I’ve heard of to original Christianity and my personal beliefs. But do you have any idea how humiliating it would be to actually tell people I know that? They all think I am a staunch Catholic because I spew the same apologetics you guys do when confronted by any idea other than Catholic.

I want to worship God in Spirit and Truth. Who does that? If it’s the Lutherans I’m going to humbly become a Lutheran. I just want to do the right thing. Please don’t think this is just about divorce etc…I think my first marriage is null because like I said she says so through words and actions. So I believe I am free of her and I have remarried. The ridiculous ordeal of annulment and re-marriage in the Church is just another log on the fire. I have a lot of concerns. I think it may have been a mistake to convert, but then again if I hadn’t converted I probably wouldn’t believe at all.

…

The things you describe are very similar to the way I feel. The only thing is that I’m not Catholic, I don’t belong to any church and have been trying to decide on one and have been considering the Catholic Church the most. I’m also considering Protestant churches…and for the most part it seems their simplicity is more in line with the message of the Bible. Yet there are clearly some very good arguments to be made for the Catholic Church being the Church that Jesus established…

Basically all I’m saying is that I can relate. I hope you find your answers, and I hope I do too!

God Bless!

P.S. This is my first post! I’m a new member to the forum.

 

[Rolltide]

Well,

1. I believe that salvation is by Grace through faith. Or if the person has not had the opportunity to hear the gospel then by Grace alone in a manner unknown to us.

This is NOT a problem with the Catholic Church. Recently, the Catholics and Lutherans signed the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, which resolves most of the controversy on this issue, which was a major reason for the split. Since both churches now seem to not have issue with this, that’s one less reason to leave Catholicism.

Here’s the document:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

Also on another note I have a child I want to baptize but have to attend a class before they will do it. The class is all day on a Saturday. Why do they do that? I would think that they would be overjoyed to have the opportunity to baptize a child. Instead they just act like it’s a lot of work and schedule me for the mid January class…etc

Baptism is a Sacrament of Initiation into the church. Making this decision is a huge responsibility. Are the parents and godparents aware of the responsibilities that they will have to raise the child in the faith? Are they even committed to raising the child Catholic? You’d be surprised how many baptize a child just to satisfy a parent, or out of custom, with no real intention of raising the child Catholic. I’ve seen it happen in my own family. I’m happy to tell you that story privately if you like, just PM me. There is an expectation of the requirement for study with ALL the sacraments. Kids go to Catholic school or CCD. Couples go to pre-Cana classes (my wife and I loved our pre-Cana classes and found them very helpful!), priests go to seminary. Converts go to RCIA. All of this is a sign of what high regard we hold the sacraments in, and how important they are for Christians to understand before we engage in them.

Given the marriage issues, the difficulty of obtaining the sacraments, and the overall feeling I’m getting from the Church, and the disregard for the needs of the flock by the Catholic Church authorities, I am seriously thinking about joining the Lutheran Faith. At least they don’t keep people from Christ as a punishment.

It’s not a punishment. If you look back to the early church, the sacraments required enormous periods of study. In fact, RCIA was a reform based on the study of the early church. Joining the church could take as many as THREE YEARS of study. Confessions used to be done in front of entire congregations. People could be banished and forced to do public penances. The unbaptized weren’t even allowed in a church building until their baptism! (Which is why you have separate baptistries outside of very old churches, like the Cathedral of Pisa.) Have you ever read the Didache? It’s the earliest extra-Biblical document we have. It’s completely historical, and discusses what worship was like for Christians around 90 AD (during the period where the Apostle John was still alive). Justin Martyr also writes about the early church in his Apologia. It might be worth exploring some of these documents.

I agree with 95% of what the Church teaches. I don’t agree with the way they handle administration nor do I agree with the celibacy of the priesthood. I think that is why we have a grave shortage of priests.

The Orthodox Church allows for married priests (and has a doctrine almost identical to that of Catholics), and yet, they have a similar shortage of priests. Further, the Catholic Church already HAS married priests! We have them in the Eastern Catholic branches, and we have some priests who are converts from other faiths and were preachers that were allowed to keep their wives. The rule is a discipline that was imposed as a REFORM to fight corruption in the eleventh century. Many priests were engaged in nepotism and using collection basket funds to support glamorous lifestyles for their families. As a result, celibacy was instituted as a popular reform. (Read about the Cluny Reform Movement sometime.) This is not a deal breaker, as the pope is allowed to relax or change this rule at any time. (i.e., it’s a changeable custom, not a doctrine.) The bigger problem is attracting people to the priesthood in such a secular world.

continued…

 

[Rolltide]

I also don’t know if I actually believe in Transubstantiation. I believe in the real presence of the Lord in the Eucharist but I think it is spiritual not physical. I also don’t understand why the Church of Rome would have a monopoly on the Eucharist. I don’t believe they do and I think that the Orthodox Churches, The Anglican’s, the Lutheran’s, and some Methodist’s have the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

We agree that the Orthodox Churches have a valid Eucharist. The Real Presence is clearly physical and not spiritual, and this can be proved from the early church. Please take the time to read this article I created that I’ve posted several times on this board. It’s long, but it will answer most of your questions. (BTW… I’m a professional historian, if that lends it any weight.) As this is SO critical to our faith, this would be one of the most damning things for the Lutheran position.

Please read post #4:
catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28818

But, I want to be Catholic, because I love the Mass and the tradition and believe that it is a direct unbroken line from the Church of Rome that the Epistle was written too. I believe that the successor of Peter holds a special place in the Church and should be considered in all decisions, but I do not believe he is infallible. I support his intentions as long as they are Christ centered and aimed at spreading the gospel.

Out of curiosity, that sounds like a very Orthodox opinion. Why are you not considering that branch of Christianity, instead of Lutheranism? In many ways, it sounds closer to the views you are espousing. Are you aware that they also date back to Apostolic times, and that they agree with the Catholic Church on virtually every theological position (except the pope)? In fact, ALL the pre-Reformation churches agree with us in that regard. If Luther was right, you’d expect to see at least some evidence for his positions earlier.

Out of all of my apologetic and theological studies and my being a sponsor for a Lutheran of all things into the Catholic Church, yes, I have been through RCIA twice once as a candidate once as a sponsor, I have realized that the Catholic position is the hardest to evangelize. There is so much that gets in the way of people coming to the Church. Life gets in the way. It is so hard to look at people and know that for them to experience the peace of the sacraments it is almost impossible because of the time it takes and the details. There is too much bureaucracy standing in the way of Christ for the Catholic Church to be an effective servant of the Lord in this day and hour. Almost all of the Christian evangelizing and introduction to Lord is done by Protestants who invite people to come the same way Christ did, by just accepting Him.

And yet, the Catholic Church is seeing phenominal expansion in Africa and Asia. Part of the Assyrian Church of the East recently reunited with the Catholic Church after 1500 years. The rest is very close to joining as well. Relations with the Oriental Orthodox have never been so close. At a time when you see groups like the Anglicans imploding, the Catholic Church is resolving issues with many denominations (INCLUDING the Lutherans, as I pointed out above) and even reuniting them.

The reason Lutheranism is attracting me is because I have heard from them that they believe all of the things that the Catholic Church has always taught. They just don’t require us to believe the things that aren’t in scripture.

Most Protestants have the mentality that “If it’s not in Scripture, throw it out.” Catholics and Orthodox have the mentality of “As long as it doesn’t contradict Scripture, it’s ok, because Holy Tradition is equal to Scripture”. (At least when that Tradition can be clearly traced to the Apostles and the early church.)

Anyway, that’s just a few initial thoughts. I hope it helps. It sounds like your current frustration with the church is leading you to give the Lutheran argument far more of your attention. I would suggest you study each individual issue thoroughly and clearly before you make any kind of a decision either way.

 

[Jean_1958]

It sounds like your current frustration with the church is leading ou to give the Lutheran argument far more of your attention. I would suggest you study each individual issue thoroughly and clearly before you make any kind of a decision either way.

It sounds like he has made his choice to convert to Lutehranism and is just looking for others to justify his decision.

God Bless.

Jean

 

[DD2007]

The things you describe are very similar to the way I feel. The only thing is that I’m not Catholic, I don’t belong to any church and have been trying to decide on one and have been considering the Catholic Church the most. I’m also considering Protestant churches…and for the most part it seems their simplicity is more in line with the message of the Bible. Yet there are clearly some very good arguments to be made for the Catholic Church being the Church that Jesus established…

Basically all I’m saying is that I can relate. I hope you find your answers, and I hope I do too!

God Bless!

P.S. This is my first post! I’m a new member to the forum.

Welcome! ::tiphat: This is a great forum. I’m sure you will find a lot of useful information to think about here. :yup:

 

[DD2007]

Anyway, that’s just a few initial thoughts. I hope it helps. It sounds like your current frustration with the church is leading you to give the Lutheran argument far more of your attention. I would suggest you study each individual issue thoroughly and clearly before you make any kind of a decision either way.

Great info! I’ll check the links you provided. Pretty good for a Alabama fan. I’m a Sooner myself.

 

[DD2007]

It sounds like he has made his choice to convert to Lutehranism and is just looking for others to justify his decision.

God Bless.

Jean

I haven’t made the decision to convert yet. I’ve just made the decision to give the Lutherans a serious ear. It would be the easiest thing for my family. However, I want to make sure I do the best thing for them and myself. I have two children if I convert away it will affect the way they view theology. So, I have to make the right decision based on what I feel Christ would want me to do. Right now I don’t know. I’ve made some pretty bad decisions in the past. I hope converting TO catholicism wasn’t one of them.

 

[Rolltide]

Great info! I’ll check the links you provided. Pretty good for a Alabama fan. I’m a Sooner myself.

I’m an alumni of Iowa State as well, so I’ve seen the mighty Sooners in action many times. Now please go and kick the tar out of Florida!