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randirhoades
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The Catholic Church teaches the gospel. There are many Catholic Bible study groups you can go to and we hear the gospel being read during the homily at Mass. Why say we aren’t taught the gospel?
Many Religious sects will say they are the one true Church. I’ve heard many people of different faiths say it. Yet, I don’t get in a debate with them about it. Many get riled when you do. Corruption is in all Denominations, don’t kid yourself. We aren’t perfect and all sin. To say there is no perversion in a Church is like saying you belong to a “Perfect” Church which is not true. Nothing and no one is perfect except for Jesus who walked the earth 2,000 years ago. Plus, teachers corrupt kids more. CC has 1% rating. Plus, I should know. In 7th grade we had a pedophile as an English Teacher. And when I got older, did a lot of research since I worked for the state with eight attorneys before I became disabled. Peace be with you.
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MaryT777
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He doesn’t have the spare time to be on CAF; to me it’s a luxury to have the time to post here and his time as a Pastor is limited with his Family and Congregation.I think the standard is probably a small c, but if its a proper name in English…
It would be far cheaper for all involved if the pastor were to join us on CAF. And he would be quite welcome.
Jon
Mary.
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benjohnson
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I love it! When I said OHCAC, from here it seems that you immediately thought I meat the Catholic Church in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
That a good thing! But… from where I stand the OHCAC is our church, and your church is probably part of it, but we’re not entirely sure so we’ll keep mum about it and pray for all.
If a Lutheran says that his church stated in the 1500’s by a testy monk… then they need to understand their own faith a bit better and understand that our church started a bit earlier than that. Hopefully… or things will be a bit awkward for us poor Lutherans.
https://sphotos-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/969978_510352155685996_1257688189_n.jpg
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Ridgerunner
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I don’t see how anything derivative can be the “pure” form of anything. That’s like saying Dachshunds are the only “pure” wolves.
And too, did Jesus really intend that the “pure” church be limited to Teutonic people? Almost nobody who isn’t German or Scandinavian is a Lutheran.
Having said that, I will also say that LCMS people are a good deal less hostile to Catholicism here in southern Mo than they sound like they are in the northern plains. Not sure why that would be.
Finally, I’ll add that Lutherans are not the only protestants who claim to be the “real” or “pure” church. Other protestant sects make the same claim.
And too, did Jesus really intend that the “pure” church be limited to Teutonic people? Almost nobody who isn’t German or Scandinavian is a Lutheran.
Having said that, I will also say that LCMS people are a good deal less hostile to Catholicism here in southern Mo than they sound like they are in the northern plains. Not sure why that would be.
Finally, I’ll add that Lutherans are not the only protestants who claim to be the “real” or “pure” church. Other protestant sects make the same claim.
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Judas_Thaddeus
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No, it is true, I will admit, that the Catholic Church was not 100% perfect back then in
its conduct, and I will even believe that Luther at first just wanted to fix the Catholic
Church, but he totally went about it the WRONG way.
Let’s go back to the days when Lutheranism began: What was the dominant religion?
Roman Catholicism. Now what was Lutheranism? Lutheranism was a group breaking
away from mainstream society based on the ideology of one man. What do we call a
new religious movement breaking away from the mainstream today? A Cult!
THAT’S RIGHT, I SAID IT !!!
It’s been about five centuries since Luther’s time, however, so Lutheranism has become
part of what we consider today to be a mainstream norm, so it may not be fair to label
Lutheranism as a cult in these modern times, but doesn’t the idea of it’s beginnings
bother anyone?
Ok. Explain how he went about it the wrong way.
For those who have expressed a concern about Lutheran “anti-Catholic” polemics.Let’s go back to the days when Lutheranism began: What was the dominant religion?
Roman Catholicism. Now what was Lutheranism? Lutheranism was a group breaking
away from mainstream society based on the ideology of one man. What do we call a
new religious movement breaking away from the mainstream today? A Cult!
THAT’S RIGHT, I SAID IT !!!
You walked that back well.
Yes, I am very concerned about how Lutheranism came about. It concerns me greatly that, 1) the Church we love went through so much corruption and dissension that even the possibility of a reformation presented itself.
2) instead of working on things to solve the 500 year old schism, some on both sides want to use polemics that continue it.
Jon
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Rence
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Most believers of non-Catholic Christian faiths believe that their church is the one true church. Even though it all started with the Catholic Church, they believe that the Catholic Church went astray and that their branching from it was the true way. Certainly, if they didn’t believe their religion had the one true faith, they wouldn’t be believers of that religion.
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MaryT777
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Yep.
Every non Catholic told me they have the true Faith.
Some even include Lutherans with perverting the Faith with infant baptism and real presence
albeit the HUGE different understanding of it.
I said they just understood Rome was right on that one
Mary.
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JerryZ
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As a non-Catholic/Lutheran Christian (raised in the Church of Christ), I believe that the “True and/or Only Church” is comprised of ALL who believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior, thus WE ARE ALL CHRISTIANS. The Church is the people. We are The Church. Isn’t that what Jesus taught us?
It is sad to me that people of faith are fighting over who is “really” following God’s commandments to us. The words of the Bible are the Truth, period. The words Jesus spoke to us are the Truth and the Light, period. There are certainly those who have perverted the words in the Bible to “mean” one thing or another, depending upon their own interpretation, thus creating their own version of “The Church.”
Thus, we now have so many different denominations which declare knowing the True faith and understanding of the Bible, people who are not born and baptised into a certain Christian denomination and are seeking the Truth, have a very difficult time choosing which one is “right” or “wrong.”
When asked what religion I follow, I simply state that I am a Christian ~ final answer! Isn’t it the duty of all of us to spread the Good News that Jesus in the one and only Messiah, and that He came here to offer everyone forgiveness for their sins as long as they believe in Him? When Jesus returns, isn’t He going to reign over all people for 1000 years?
Actualy that is NOT what Jesus taught…Lets see:
Luke 10:16 Whoever hears you, hears me. And whoever despises you, despises me. And whoever despises me, despises him who sent me.”
John 5:24 Amen, amen, I say to you, that whoever hears my word, and believes in him who sent me, has eternal life, and he does not go into judgment, but instead he crosses from death into life.
Matthew 16:18 And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
16:19 And** I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven**. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven.”
John 21:15 Then, when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
21:16 He said to him again: “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
21:17 He said to him a third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was very grieved that he had asked him a third time, “Do you love me?” And so he said to him: “Lord, you know all things. You know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my sheep".
He did not say I will build 40000 sects.
If you actually believe in Jesus, tell me WHO has HIS KEYS NOW. Today. This moment.
Or do you ascribe to the theory that Jesus gave the Keys to Peter WHO died and that’s it
So we are left with no earthly representantive to keep us?
How do you reconcile that with John 21:15
Are you Peter? Are you in charge of His lambs?
Are you the one making sure they are NOT led astray?
Do you have the authority to say “Thus sayeth God”?
Where can we find this authority in the 40000 “Christian” denominations? (NOWHERE!)
John 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world is not able to accept, because it neither perceives him nor knows him. But you shall know him. For he will remain with you, and he will be in you.
14:18 **I will not leave you orphans. I will return to you.
**
Jesus founded His Church and I believe His words that no one will be able to tear it down.
NO one until the end of times.
So please desist in claiming that the Church of Jesus can somehow aposthatize, IF it could then it was NOT Jesus’s Church in the first place.
And since The Catholic Church is the only one that can trace back it’s origin to Jesus’s founding it on Peter 2000 or so years ago anything you say has no standing against the word of Jesus.
You are “partly right” in one aspect. Yes through Baptism you were grafted into the “Body of Christ”.
But I have news for you. His Body IS the Catholic Church.
Also while outside of the true Church you are diminished in the sense that you cannot make yourself avail of the Sacraments.
NO they where NOT invented by someone recently, they are the continued presence of our Lord Jesus to feed us with the manna from Heaven.
By confessing our sins and having them forgiven by Jesus
John 20:23 Those whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, and those whose sins you shall retain, they are retained”
Retaining sins? how can you retain something unless you are TOLD them?
You need to confess something so that it can either be forgiven or retained
Sorry for the long post.
Peace
It’s funny, because compared to some of our Protestant siblings, Rome has a lot of stuff right, from a Lutheran perspective.Yep.
Every non Catholic told me they have the true Faith.
Some even include Lutherans with perverting the Faith with infant baptism and real presence
albeit the HUGE different understanding of it.
I said they just understood Rome was right on that one
Mary.
Jon
=JerryZ;11065801]
Amen.
Agreed, though the thread is about Lutherans and Catholics in particular.
The Church does, of course, as St. Peter received them for the Church. That’s why Lutherans still practice confession/Holy Absolution.Or do you ascribe to the theory that Jesus gave the Keys to Peter WHO died and that’s it
Why are you under the impression Lutherans have given up, or given away St. Peter or any of the other apostles, simply because we do not accept what we consider the innovation of universal jurisdiction?
Amen.
Not sure anyone has made that claim in this thread.
While Holy Orthodoxy would dispute this claim, the Lutheran confesses weekly our membership in the OHCAC, and we are of that same Church that Christ established.
And also with you,Peace
Jon
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IgnatianPhilo
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One wonders where this pure church was before the reformation.
It was most likely the undivided Church that gave us the 7 councils. Maybe you can tell me where it is now. See if you can get everyone to agree.
Jon
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JRKH
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And, as you know, James, I pray for their success.I think that this is precisely the aim of the Catholic / Orthodox talks…
Peace
James
Jon
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JRKH
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Ridgerunner
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One cannot really compare the relationship between Catholicism and Orthodoxy to that between Catholicism and Lutheranism.Some of our Orthodox friends might say we are a derivative of a derivative.
Really? Some of our strongest, fastest growing synods are in Africa.
And that’s the way it should be.
As does Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
Jon
I realize there are some 900,000 Lutherans in Africa. Some in Indonesia and other places too. It’s still mostly a Teutonic religion, though that could change.
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