"Lutherans" Why the name?

[Hockeygurl]

What’s in a name? Why is it important?

Would that mean the “Church of Christ” was founded by Christ and is the “true” church?

Because Mormons use the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does that mean that they teach Christ’s true teachings?

IMO, it’s just a name… there are WAY too many other things to worry about.

 

[Johann_Johann]

One small point–Lutherans and other Protestants spell “catholic” with a lower case c. They point out that “Catholic” refers to the Church of Rome, and “catholic” means universal! Of course that only applies in English. In French or Spanish, it’s quite different.

 

[joe371]

steido01;11948880]I’ll bite.Where in Scripture does the Pope have the right to name who is the King of England or remove the President of the United States from office? And where in Scripture does it state that those who don’t believe the Pope to hold this power have put their salvation in jeopardy?

It does not. The Pope does not possess the power or have the right to decide who the King of England should be, or remove the President of the United States from office. The Catholic Church established by Jesus, and guided by the Holy Spirit, is here to preach and teach on spiritual matters, faith and morals, and these fallible leaders (Petrine office +Ecumenical Council) do just that via the infallible guidance of God, as per scripture. This, we, as Catholics, have faith in, due to Sacred scripture + Sacred tradition + Catholic Church history.

The church catholic, in general. Likely the Bishops, together, in particular. Like the good ol’ early days. Oh, how we Christians miss the guidance of the united Pentarchy.

Well, God promised to be with His church forever, guiding her, as the bride of Christ, into all truth, so evidently the Pentarchy alone was the not way in which God chose to preserve doctrinal unity, logically speaking.

 

[benjohnson]

Can you also provide a Catholic Source for the above quote. Thanks.

In the Papal Bull Unam Sanctum

“We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal.”

That said, the older understanding of Unam Sanctum is in someways no longer how it is understood today by Catholic theologians.

 

[Jon_S_1]

In the Papal Bull Unam Sanctum

“We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal.”

That said, the older understanding of Unam Sanctum is in someways no longer how it is understood today by Catholic theologians.

Thanks for your honesty.

The only place I could find your quote was on Lutheran websites. It no doubt was an extrapolation (falsely but perhaps innocently) of the text.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Thanks for your honesty.

The only place I could find your quote was on Lutheran websites. It no doubt was an extrapolation (falsely but perhaps innocently) of the text.

"We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: ‘Behold, here are two swords’ [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: ‘Put up thy sword into thy scabbard’ [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.

However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: ‘There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God’ [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other."

fordham.edu/halsall/source/B8-unam.asp

Not a Lutheran website.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Which tradition of the Catholic Church contradicts scripture?

Who determines that? Luther, the homosexual clergy of the Lutheran Church, or the clergy of the Lutheran Church that denounce Homosexuality, etc etc?

Do you get why your not making any waves here. Your own denomination fundamentally disagrees on what the Bible says.

Hmm…right, as opposed to the Catholic Church, where you can be Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden or the Kennedy’s and still receive communion, have high masses at your funerals and be told by a cardinal that you’re not a Catholic in bad standing.

You’re right, of course, that we have the ELCA, but at least I can see which congregation they’re attending and avoid fellowship with them. Better a thousand denominations where only one is true, than a thousand denominations in one church.

 

[hn160]

Well…how can you believe you are a continuation of it?

You threw out the ancient traditions of the 7 sacraments, the authority of bishops…for starters…and started calling a bishop the anti christ…

Speaking about tradition and doctrine:

Contraception, cohabitation, divorce, remarriage and same-sex unions: They’re issues that pain and puzzle Roman Catholics who want to be true to both their church and themselves.
Now those issues are about to be put up for debate by their leader, a man who appears determined to push boundaries and effect change.
On Pope Francis’ orders, the Vatican will convene an urgent meeting of senior clerics this fall to reexamine church teachings that touch the most intimate aspects of people’s lives. Billed as an “extraordinary” assembly of bishops, the gathering could herald a new approach by the church to the sensitive topics.
The run-up to the synod has been extraordinary in itself, a departure from usual practice that some say is a mark of the pope’s radical new leadership style, and a canny tactic to defuse dissent over potential reforms.

latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-vatican-family-20140430,0,6157008.story#ixzz30QkKyYqs

In the Missouri Synod, anything that pertains to Scripture can not be voted on. The doctrine concerning men only ordination, homosexuality can not be voted on by the Synod.

 

[Jon_S_1]

"We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: ‘Behold, here are two swords’ [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: ‘Put up thy sword into thy scabbard’ [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.

However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: ‘There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God’ [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other."

fordham.edu/halsall/source/B8-unam.asp

Not a Lutheran website.

Right, but this is a far cry from what you posted. I believe that an ideal world would have everyone be subject to God in his church.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hmm…right, as opposed to the Catholic Church, where you can be Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden or the Kennedy’s and still receive communion, have high masses at your funerals and be told by a cardinal that you’re not a Catholic in bad standing.

You’re right, of course, that we have the ELCA, but at least I can see which congregation they’re attending and avoid fellowship with them. Better a thousand denominations where only one is true, than a thousand denominations in one church.

Please don’t act as if Nancy Pelosi is somehow a leader of the church. What a false equivalency. A sect of your denomination claiming the Bible Alone tells them their error and they preach their errors as gospel vs a highly rebuked lapsed laymen.

Come now.

 

[marywarfield]

Hmm…right, as opposed to the Catholic Church, where you can be Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden or the Kennedy’s and still receive communion, have high masses at your funerals and be told by a cardinal that you’re not a Catholic in bad standing.

You’re right, of course, that we have the ELCA, but at least I can see which congregation they’re attending and avoid fellowship with them. Better a thousand denominations where only one is true, than a thousand denominations in one church.

I don’t see where Pelosi, Biden and the Kennedy’s
back their stand with sola Scriptura? Can you
reference that please?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Speaking about tradition and doctrine:

Contraception, cohabitation, divorce, remarriage and same-sex unions: They’re issues that pain and puzzle Roman Catholics who want to be true to both their church and themselves.
Now those issues are about to be put up for debate by their leader, a man who appears determined to push boundaries and effect change.
On Pope Francis’ orders, the Vatican will convene an urgent meeting of senior clerics this fall to reexamine church teachings that touch the most intimate aspects of people’s lives. Billed as an “extraordinary” assembly of bishops, the gathering could herald a new approach by the church to the sensitive topics.
The run-up to the synod has been extraordinary in itself, a departure from usual practice that some say is a mark of the pope’s radical new leadership style, and a canny tactic to defuse dissent over potential reforms.

latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-vatican-family-20140430,0,6157008.story#ixzz30QkKyYqs

In the Missouri Synod, anything that pertains to Scripture can not be voted on. The doctrine concerning men only ordination, homosexuality can not be voted on by the Synod.

Don’t believe the media. Dogma cannot be “voted on”. It is what it is. What can and will be discussed is how the church teaches and ministers to people in these situations.

In your denomination they don’t vote on it…they just leave and start “the true Lutheran Church” in their mind. And there is no authority to say you are right and they are wrong…other than opinions.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Don’t believe the media. Dogma cannot be “voted on”. It is what it is. What can and will be discussed is how the church teaches and ministers to people in these situations.

In your denomination they don’t vote on it…they just leave and start “the true Lutheran Church” in their mind. And there is no authority to say you are right and they are wrong…other than opinions.

So…in your church when the Pope says X and Catholic says Y, what happens then?

 

[Per_Crucem]

Please don’t act as if Nancy Pelosi is somehow a leader of the church. What a false equivalency. A sect of your denomination claiming the Bible Alone tells them their error and they preach their errors as gospel vs a highly rebuked lapsed laymen.

Come now.

Oh, it only counts if they’re leaders now? Someone can publicly disagree with Catholic teaching, all the way enacting civil law as a public sign of disobedience, and still be considered faithful enough to receive communion and it doesn’t matter because she’s not a leader?

Come now.

And the ELCA does not endorse sola scriptura LoL.

 

[adf417]

Hmm…right, as opposed to the Catholic Church, where you can be Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden or the Kennedy’s and still receive communion, have high masses at your funerals and be told by a cardinal that you’re not a Catholic in bad standing.

Are you suggesting these fine upstanding Catholics are not invited to receive communion in your church? Please don’t answer this for fear of incrimination.

Peace!!!

 

[Jon_S_1]

So…in your church when the Pope says X and Catholic says Y, what happens then?

Frankly it’s between the dissenter and God.

It is the church’s responsibility to instruct and correct when necessary.

But for most lay people the church isn’t bringing them in and quizzing them annually on their views.

Some people choose to act outside the church. God will judge them.

Now if the kennedy family. started teaching catechism classes and teaching that abortion was a virtue then of course the would be censured.

This is why Pelosi has been more controversial. She made some statements that were false about catholic teaching as such, it’s been recommended she not receive communion. (Her bishop may have privately settled it with her which is plenty appropriate).

 

[Per_Crucem]

Are you suggesting these fine upstanding Catholics are not invited to receive communion in your church? Please don’t answer this for fear of incrimination.

Peace!!!

No, they’re not lol. Peace, adf Lol

 

[Jon_S_1]

Oh, it only counts if they’re leaders now? Someone can publicly disagree with Catholic teaching, all the way enacting civil law as a public sign of disobedience, and still be considered faithful enough to receive communion and it doesn’t matter because she’s not a leader?

Come now.

And the ELCA does not endorse sola scriptura LoL.

No.

But believe it or not there are tons of Catholics and Lutherans receiving communion in mortal sin.

The church wields it’s excommunication sword with care and caution and prudence. Just as they did with Luther

 

[Per_Crucem]

Frankly it’s between the dissenter and God.

It is the church’s responsibility to instruct and correct when necessary.

But for most lay people the church isn’t bringing them in and quizzing them annually on their views.

Some people choose to act outside the church. God will judge them.

Now if the kennedy family. started teaching catechism classes and teaching that abortion was a virtue then of course the would be censured.

This is why Pelosi has been more controversial. She made some statements that were false about catholic teaching as such, it’s been recommended she not receive communion. (Her bishop may have privately settled it with her which is plenty appropriate).

I agree that those matters are between them and God. If only, in discussion, you afforded the same courtesy to non-Catholics who disagree with the teaching of their church body, other than an opportunity to say, “ah ha! See, disunity!”

Be that as it may, politicians are public figures, and the very act of her receiving communion at Mass is a scandal to faithful Catholics. It’s all well and good, if one lives in Chestertonian fairy land on a forum, to say that Rome is somehow monolithic in its unity and its ability to maintain sound doctrine, and another to actually point to it taking place in the real world.

 

[Jon_S_1]

No, they’re not lol. Peace, adf Lol

I thought you had an. “Open table” !