Luturgical abuses?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Big_Feet
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
MartyrForJesus said:
You must have a lot of clerics! Most parishes over here have a single priest, except for the FSSP parish which has a priest, a deacon and a sub-deacon.
Click to expand...
Yes, the parish of 300 families or so has five priests and three deacons. A bit spoiled, I think. I wish at least two of the priests would go to another parish for the good of the Church, but whatevs.
 
I went to a Mass in Canada and the Priest didn’t even hand out communion. He sat down while EM’s handed out communion.
 
jam070406 said:
I went to a Mass in Canada and the Priest didn’t even hand out communion. He sat down while EM’s handed out communion.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that’s pretty sad. And an abuse. Of course, there is the chance that he was disabled or otherwise not fit to distribute Holy Communion for some reason, however unlikely.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Yeah, that’s pretty sad. And an abuse. Of course, there is the chance that he was disabled or otherwise not fit to distribute Holy Communion for some reason, however unlikely.
Click to expand...
He was a tad old but got around fine. He seemed to be fine during the homily. Although, he was standing at a podium. Guess I should give him the benefit of doubt. 😦
But it did strike me as strange at the time…
 
We have an 80-year-old priest who cannot distribute Holy Communion due to his Parkinson’s. Yet he can celebrate Mass and give the homily and such. I suppose if people did not know him and how cripled his hands are, thy might assume abuse where none is intended. Most of the EMHC’s at my parish know the “extra” in “extraordinary” means just that - they always defer to the ordained!

But I still think EMHC’s ARE used too frequently and perhaps used to “keep to the time schedule” which IMHO takes the reverence out of Mass. I want to cry each time the Prescious Blood is spilled and the EMHC either doesn’t react or simply doesn’t notice.
 
Big_Feet said:
What are the most common (and possibly generally accepted) liturgical abuses that those here often see during the OF of the Holy Mass? What would be the correction to those abuses?
Click to expand...
As some have already said over use of EM. Adding or removing things from the Roman Missal regardless of the intentions. Dancing during the liturgy. Using the homily for personal agenda or political talk that has nothing to do with the readings.

The EF can also be abused, some priest can omit certain parts and it can be easy to do since the mass is quiet.
 
jam070406 said:
I went to a Mass in Canada and the Priest didn’t even hand out communion. He sat down while EM’s handed out communion.
Click to expand...
Big time abuse! Unless his health or something else prevented him. Clericazation of laity at its worst. Also a lay person saying the homily is a big time abuse.
 
Nothing takes away the natural “flow” & reverence of the mass more than these things:
-The “kiss” of peace, the way that it’s done in many parishes.
-The army of EMHCs walking towards the altar
-The hand holding or orans posture during the Lord’s prayer, especially when done across the aisles.
 
archangel04 said:
Nothing takes away the natural “flow” & reverence of the mass more than these things:
-The “kiss” of peace, the way that it’s done in many parishes.
-The army of EMHCs walking towards the altar
-The hand holding or orans posture during the Lord’s prayer, especially when done across the aisles.
Click to expand...
This thread is supposed to be about liturgical abuses. What you have mentioned are not abuses, even though you may not like those things.
 
choliks said:
With regards to OP. I’ve seen a bishop do something that seemed like sign language during the Our Father. It was really odd, but nobody from the laity spoke against it. I didn’t question it too under obedience.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that sign language is an approved vernacular, perhaps there are others to cover other national languages as well. I don’t see this as a problem.
 
I don’t know if it’s an abuse or not, but it’s annoying when the priest races through the Latin so fast that I can’t even keep up reading it in the missal! He’s usually at least two parts of the Mass ahead of the schola. I love the EF, go whenever I get a chance to, but frequently leave Mass at the end scratching my head wondering about that.

The cantor at my OF parish performs. She has a beautiful trained voice, but sings well outside normal range when she is leading the choir and the people. Again, it’s distracting and a little frustrating for me, but I don’t know if it’s an abuse.

I don’t mention either of these things at the respective parishes: The priest who celebrates the EF is extremely traditional, and I’m too intimidated by that. And the OF parish is nice and tries really hard to give a beautiful liturgy. I don’t feel that it’s my place to complain. I don’t know if I’m being charitable or passive.

My own spirituality feels most nourished when I attend daily Mass at a different OF parish which is run by a religious order. Reverent, and just the Mass!
 
odile53 said:
I don’t know if it’s an abuse or not, but it’s annoying when the priest races through the Latin so fast that I can’t even keep up reading it in the missal! He’s usually at least two parts of the Mass ahead of the schola. I love the EF, go whenever I get a chance to, but frequently leave Mass at the end scratching my head wondering about that.

:p:D He’s probably not rushing, just saying it normally. I sometimes have trouble keeping up too, and I read the English section!
Click to expand...
 
Lack of respect for the Blessed Sacrament is one of the worse I have seen here
 
odile53 said:
I don’t know if it’s an abuse or not, but it’s annoying when the priest races through the Latin so fast that I can’t even keep up reading it in the missal! He’s usually at least two parts of the Mass ahead of the schola.
Click to expand...
I would say the priest should at least let the servers catch up on their responses. There are very fast English speakers as well.
I love the EF, go whenever I get a chance to, but frequently leave Mass at the end scratching my head wondering about that.
Click to expand...
The Mass is intended to remain a mystery, if that helps. It’s part of its beauty. 😉
 
YoungTradCath said:
Yes, the parish of 300 families or so has five priests and three deacons. A bit spoiled, I think. I wish at least two of the priests would go to another parish for the good of the Church, but whatevs.
Click to expand...
We have to keep one thing in mind, unless your parish is run by a religious community the other priests do not have a duty to be available to help distribute Holy Communion at other masses.

There are two points that make diocesan priests different from priests who belong to religious communities and societies of apostolic life.
  1. Diocesan priests do not live in community. Each is an individual with his schedule and when he’s not on duty, his time is his own. That is not to say that he can’t help with Holy Communion. That is to say that he does not have to do so, if he has other plans such as meeting his mother for breakfast after his mass.
  2. Many diocesan priests don’t live on the parish campus. When a diocesan priest is assigned to a parish, he’s given a job description that details the times and days that he must be available. I know a parish that has a 700 bed hospital and three nursing homes within its boundaries. It receives many urgent calls. They have three priests. But those guys have to be on call two nights a week, from 4:00 pm (when the office closes) to 9:00 am (when the office opens). They get one day off and part of Sunday. The average secular man gets two days off and does not do two 24 hour days per week. Diocesan priests are independent secular men.
Regular priests are different. Regulars never have a day off, unless the superior approves it. They are part of a fraternity, which means that they have to be available to assist their brothers. They are not on schedules or on payrolls. As long as the distribution of Holy Communion does not coincide with a community function, they can make themselves available. In those rare cases when it does coincide with a community function, the community function takes priority over the parish. Most religious communities are pretty good at scheduling their community life.

Priests who belong to a society of apostolic life such as the FSSP, have this as their special mission. The exist for this purpose. Other societies of apostolic life, such as Maryknoll exist for a different purpose. The Church does not expect the same thing from Maryknoll as it does from the FSSP. Even though these priests are also secular Catholics, they are part of a fraternity with a specific mission.

We have to be very careful not to place all priests in the same box, because they’re priests. There is but one priesthood, but the Church places different expectations on priests, depending on their state in life.

The same holds true for deacons. Deacons are clergymen. However, unless they are regulars, they remain secular men. Most are married and are parents. They don’t hang around the parish. They’re in and out between their regular job and their family obligations.

I think that the Eastern Catholics have a better idea of this than the Latin Catholics. They are used to married clergy. Therefore, the thought that Father must be available all Sunday morning would not cross their minds. Having a married clergy helps them understand the whole concept of a secular priest much better. That’s probably what we don’t grasp to well in our Roman Catholic culture. Almost 80% of our priests in parishes are secular men.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
thistle said:
This thread is supposed to be about liturgical abuses. What you have mentioned are not abuses, even though you may not like those things.
Click to expand...
Things can be irreverent even if not technically abuses.
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
Things can be irreverent even if not technically abuses.
Click to expand...
The problem with the term “irreverent” is that it can be very subjective. Whereas abuse is understood as anything that is illegal. The only thing that you have to prove is whether the law has been violated or not. It’s like the terms banal and secular. They can be used to refer to things that are good, but may not belong in the realm of the sacred. Irreverent can be used by one to identify that which the individual believes does not belong in the sacred. However, there is much that individuals feel do not belong in the realm of the sacred and the Church has ruled that there is a place for them. In those cases, we have to accept the Church’s ruling.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
JReducation said:
We have to keep one thing in mind, unless your parish is run by a religious community the other priests do not have a duty to be available to help distribute Holy Communion at other masses.

There are two points that make diocesan priests different from priests who belong to religious communities and societies of apostolic life.
  1. Diocesan priests do not live in community. Each is an individual with his schedule and when he’s not on duty, his time is his own. That is not to say that he can’t help with Holy Communion. That is to say that he does not have to do so, if he has other plans such as meeting his mother for breakfast after his mass.
  2. Many diocesan priests don’t live on the parish campus. When a diocesan priest is assigned to a parish, he’s given a job description that details the times and days that he must be available. I know a parish that has a 700 bed hospital and three nursing homes within its boundaries. It receives many urgent calls. They have three priests. But those guys have to be on call two nights a week, from 4:00 pm (when the office closes) to 9:00 am (when the office opens). They get one day off and part of Sunday. The average secular man gets two days off and does not do two 24 hour days per week. Diocesan priests are independent secular men.
Regular priests are different. Regulars never have a day off, unless the superior approves it. They are part of a fraternity, which means that they have to be available to assist their brothers. They are not on schedules or on payrolls. As long as the distribution of Holy Communion does not coincide with a community function, they can make themselves available. In those rare cases when it does coincide with a community function, the community function takes priority over the parish. Most religious communities are pretty good at scheduling their community life.

Priests who belong to a society of apostolic life such as the FSSP, have this as their special mission. The exist for this purpose. Other societies of apostolic life, such as Maryknoll exist for a different purpose. The Church does not expect the same thing from Maryknoll as it does from the FSSP. Even though these priests are also secular Catholics, they are part of a fraternity with a specific mission.

We have to be very careful not to place all priests in the same box, because they’re priests. There is but one priesthood, but the Church places different expectations on priests, depending on their state in life.

The same holds true for deacons. Deacons are clergymen. However, unless they are regulars, they remain secular men. Most are married and are parents. They don’t hang around the parish. They’re in and out between their regular job and their family obligations.

I think that the Eastern Catholics have a better idea of this than the Latin Catholics. They are used to married clergy. Therefore, the thought that Father must be available all Sunday morning would not cross their minds. Having a married clergy helps them understand the whole concept of a secular priest much better. That’s probably what we don’t grasp to well in our Roman Catholic culture. Almost 80% of our priests in parishes are secular men.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
Click to expand...
My parish is run by Redemptorists who live in the rectory beside the church :confused:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top