Not a single word you’ve listened to, so Pharoah’s heart was hardened. I will answer for those who look on, but this fool’s errand, I won’t continue.
Let’s look at what you say- analyze it word by word
The very first thing you say fails, you misrepresent my position- left out the best part. The martyrs faced death and did not deny their faith, so I said. And the proof of this is that they are martyrs, for if they lied to save their life, they cannot be a martyr-
Why I should respond to analogies I don’t know, for in logic analogies prove nothing, but are only to make a thing clearer. So let’s stick with lying itself.
As for your pride, anyone who says they are not prideful is not a humble person. That much is sure, but let God judge between us. As you said, far be it from me to look into a man’s heart. So agree to this oath, let God punish whichever one of us is wrong on this matter-if calamity falls on me, I will be the first here to testify on your behalf. I only ask for the same in return…not for my sake, but for those onlookers, who could use the boost of faith. Perhaps both of our consciences are clear, but I ask God to judge even who is wrong. Misery from God is but a gift on the way. Open your mouth towards God therefore instead of looking to me. Let him show you the way- hard as it may be. I lie in wait too, in case I am wrong…as St. Paul says, “my conscience is clear, but let God be the judge” You’ll agree to this too surely enough- how can you not, when everything that comes from God is good?
Come one man. Are you paying attention? Let me try again:
me:
And please note that I am not interested in what you think of my motivations, whether or not I’m headed to hell, or my logical prowess, but only in your response to this question.
If you are not capable of presenting an argument without making baseless assumptions about the people you debate with, and are further not capable of seeing when someone is dealing with something you’ve said a bit more lightly because the alternative is to be offended by your presumption and arrogant rudeness, then perhaps you are not ready to debate - and you would certainly not be ready to start putting “Aquinas” in your name. Aquinas, if you’ll recall, listed objections and replied to them logically (and actually replied to them at all) without saying things like “anyone who disagrees with me must be a prideful terrible person”. It is ironic that the vice you’ve picked to project on everyone who has the gall to disagree with you is pride - perhaps you should think about that for a while before saying any more.
My last try to deal with you using some attempt at logic -
A Martyr is anyone who dies for his faith. A person may deceive to save his life because he is not yet ready to die, in the sense that his death would cause grave harm to others, and then be Martyred later. Thus if the Romans come running after me and say “have you seen Athanasius” and I say “he’s up ahead” and they go on, then I have not yet been martyred - and may have good reason to avoid being martyred at such time - but I may very well be later.
To let oneself be murdered when it is easily avoidable when one has dependents would be to fail to care for ones dependents. Get this through your head - protecting the life God has given us is not a bad thing in of itself. An argument “you only did that so wouldn’t die, what’s wrong with you” is no argument, because in general (and so long as we don’t do anything that is
actually immoral and not just something that some random guy on the internet keeps saying is immoral) trying to stay alive is a good thing.
Further, there is very much a difference between saying “Athanasius is up ahead,” and saying “I deny God.” Your problem with the first is that there is deception involved. The problem with the second is that saying it makes it true. It is unarguably true that one cannot deny God for any reason, but this does not extend to saying one cannot tell a beggar “I cannot help you, sorry” when it is true that you cannot in fact make sure they are actually helped.
So I say again. The saints were holy people. Some were martyred, some were not. Many of them acted contrarily to your opinion. If you’re going to invoke the martyrs, then I will invoke the communion of saints as a whole - by their actions they appear to disagree with you.
And again. This is not in principal and irrefutable argument. What you must do is us logic, and logic is not baseless accusations and insults and claiming to know how hard my heart is (my heart is actually performing quiet well right this moment, faint murmur, but thank you for caring) but an actual argument that proves something. Remember that an actual argument addresses the issue on hand, and is not “against the man” or even “against the man’s soul”.
Should I need to discuss the state of my soul, I will do so with a priest or with someone who has earned my respect and trust - not with some random person in on the internet who doesn’t see the problem with arguing by saying “you
dare disagree with me? how prideful thou must be!”
Instead of waxing on about this and that and making baseless assumptions about how I conduct my life, why don’t you actually address the points being brought up? Like why is it any of the beggars’ business if I have money if I have no intention of giving him any? Why it is necessary to act so pointlessly rude to beggars when all they care about is a simple yes or no? Why is saying “no” so much more evil than saying “yes, but no”?
