R
reen12
Guest
Hello, all.
I’ve read the thread, to this point, and have an
observation to make.
The West can learn a few things, from the East.
One of which is the concept of dukkha.
Dukkha is described as “craving” or “attachment.”
These operations give rise to many “sins” - to use
Christendom’s term, for this reality.
Now, in the East,* dukkha* is seen as giving rise
to suffering, and, further - same re-inforces a sense of “self.”
So, in the East:
-suffering exists
-craving and attachment are the source of suffering
-suffering can be ended, by learning not to be
attached, not to crave things, experiences etc.
-to come to realize satori] that there is no self
Translated, into Christian reality:
-sin exists
-craving and attachment can lead to sin
-leave these behind, through prayer, asking for grace
The critical difference, in these two thought systems,
resides in the view of the “self.” {Beyond the
obvious: there is a God…]
Self is to be, in a sense, “unlearned” in the East.
[hence, concepts such as “no-self.”]
The belief is that the “self” is merely a stream of
“experiences”…and that nothing can be pointed to
that constitutes a “self”, in reality. [Go with the flow!]
This concept, of course, is rejected in Christianity,
where we are to “transcend” self, by the grace of
God -not “deny” that a self exists.
The interesting thing, to me, in all of this is:
When a person who has “mastered” the
self that is not there, there is a serenity, there,
that I admire. For, after all, if no “self” exists,
“who” is there, to react in anger? “Who” is
there, to respond with pride?
In the East, the concept is:
All conditioned things rise, manifest, and pass away.
A person who “meditates” does so, in part, to learn
to recognize this reality. In some schools of
meditation, the idea is to sit quietly, following the
breath, as it enters and leaves the body, and to
note, with no sense of disruption:
“There is a sound.”
“There is a cramp, in the right leg.”
“It is very warm, in this room.”
And, after the “noting,” one returns to following the
breath.
What is the point, in all of this meditating?
To realize that each phenomenon rises,
endures, and…passes away. A sense of
equanimity arises, as a result of this practice.
The application?
Today, someone really hurt my feelings. I was
initially upset. After 15 minutes of this unpleasantness,
I realized: This is unpleasant. Yet, all things rise, endure
and pass away.
[Another *form of meditation, is to characterize
the flow of experience as it arises: pleasant, unpleasant,
neutral…neither pleasant, nor unpleasant.]
Perhaps this is what the Vatican website referred to,
in saying the deMello offered some observations,
from the East, that were “…valuable” in attaining
“self-mastery.”
As to the Vatican noting that deMello offered some
of the wisdom of the East, in terms of dealing with
the “viscissitudes” of life…
I felt much better, when I realized that my hurt
feelings were a temporary, passing thing…and
not to be “attached” to this unpleasantness,
or “crave” to get even.
Others around me didn’t experience the irritation,
that would have billowed out from my own sense
of hurt, if I had not appreciated the wisdom of the
East, in this regard.
Best,
reen12
I realize that Christ said: Heaven and earth shall pass
away, but My words shall never pass away…
and
The soul is not a “conditioned thing.” It is eternal.
I’ve read the thread, to this point, and have an
observation to make.
The West can learn a few things, from the East.
One of which is the concept of dukkha.
Dukkha is described as “craving” or “attachment.”
These operations give rise to many “sins” - to use
Christendom’s term, for this reality.
Now, in the East,* dukkha* is seen as giving rise
to suffering, and, further - same re-inforces a sense of “self.”
So, in the East:
-suffering exists
-craving and attachment are the source of suffering
-suffering can be ended, by learning not to be
attached, not to crave things, experiences etc.
-to come to realize satori] that there is no self
Translated, into Christian reality:
-sin exists
-craving and attachment can lead to sin
-leave these behind, through prayer, asking for grace
The critical difference, in these two thought systems,
resides in the view of the “self.” {Beyond the
obvious: there is a God…]
Self is to be, in a sense, “unlearned” in the East.
[hence, concepts such as “no-self.”]
The belief is that the “self” is merely a stream of
“experiences”…and that nothing can be pointed to
that constitutes a “self”, in reality. [Go with the flow!]
This concept, of course, is rejected in Christianity,
where we are to “transcend” self, by the grace of
God -not “deny” that a self exists.
The interesting thing, to me, in all of this is:
When a person who has “mastered” the
self that is not there, there is a serenity, there,
that I admire. For, after all, if no “self” exists,
“who” is there, to react in anger? “Who” is
there, to respond with pride?
In the East, the concept is:
All conditioned things rise, manifest, and pass away.
A person who “meditates” does so, in part, to learn
to recognize this reality. In some schools of
meditation, the idea is to sit quietly, following the
breath, as it enters and leaves the body, and to
note, with no sense of disruption:
“There is a sound.”
“There is a cramp, in the right leg.”
“It is very warm, in this room.”
And, after the “noting,” one returns to following the
breath.
What is the point, in all of this meditating?
To realize that each phenomenon rises,
endures, and…passes away. A sense of
equanimity arises, as a result of this practice.
The application?
Today, someone really hurt my feelings. I was
initially upset. After 15 minutes of this unpleasantness,
I realized: This is unpleasant. Yet, all things rise, endure
and pass away.
[Another *form of meditation, is to characterize
the flow of experience as it arises: pleasant, unpleasant,
neutral…neither pleasant, nor unpleasant.]
Perhaps this is what the Vatican website referred to,
in saying the deMello offered some observations,
from the East, that were “…valuable” in attaining
“self-mastery.”
As to the Vatican noting that deMello offered some
of the wisdom of the East, in terms of dealing with
the “viscissitudes” of life…
I felt much better, when I realized that my hurt
feelings were a temporary, passing thing…and
not to be “attached” to this unpleasantness,
or “crave” to get even.
Others around me didn’t experience the irritation,
that would have billowed out from my own sense
of hurt, if I had not appreciated the wisdom of the
East, in this regard.
Best,
reen12
I realize that Christ said: Heaven and earth shall pass
away, but My words shall never pass away…
and
The soul is not a “conditioned thing.” It is eternal.
. I see Reen too has posted and I have not commented on her Post which may be as well lest I confuse the simplicity and directness of what she has to say. But I will get to it. Its only 7.05pm here but I’m getting ready to retire as I must get up very early and with a long day ahead of me…or long as I assess matters for myself.
)