B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Hi all…………………I have read the Posts since last night (7.38am here in Sth. Aust.) and I certainly am not familiar with Eastern Wisdom or Mysticism, only what I have read here and there.
Reen – Post #21]
The belief is that the “self” is merely a stream of
“experiences”…and that nothing can be pointed to
that constitutes a “self”, in reality. [Go with the flow!]
This concept, of course, is rejected in Christianity,
where we are to “transcend” self, by the grace of
God -not “deny” that a self exists.
I’m wondering Reen if to comment on ‘the self’ there needs to be common agreement about what exactly ‘the self’ is as a common concept for the purposes of discussion and then to determine through discussion whether it exists or not. Perhaps one definition has been established in other Posts which I have not yet read with sufficient care. Certainly in Catholic thought the self exists and I tend towards that it does from my own concept of what it is. I am neither versed in Eastern theology, and with Catholic theology I merely have a working knowledge and not at all well versed in theology; However, I do have an experience of ‘self’ in that I amount to a mixture of thoughts, desires and motivations etc. etc. I may also have a concept of who I am and I am not necessarily correct in this assessment. I may think that I am right on an issue including a description of who I am when I am not. Hence the false self is in charge. If my false self is in charge, then my thoughts etc. are merely a ‘puff of smoke’ because my concept of myself is entirely inaccurate to the reality. About all I can claim with real confidence is that I am a human being.
Mastery of self comes about through detachment from all the above. This is not at all not caring. Rather a freedom to act against all the above for a positive or negative reason, hopefully positive. If for example I am in the presence of a depressed person and I am full of joy………I have the freedom to detach myself from my joy and act with empathy, understanding and compassion and so on and so forth. Detachment is a function of interior freedom. Freedom also leads to serenity and peace.
Quoting Reen………Post #21
To realize that each phenomenon rises,
endures, and…passes away. A sense of
equanimity arises, as a result of this practice.
I agree with this comment Reen………….as St. Paul says “all things pass only God remains”. And it is my experience that all things do indeed pass. Nothing in life is stable and consistent except God or rather my concept of God since God cannot be known and is Absolute Mystery. Possibly my prime concept of God is that He is Absolute Loving Mercy and Understanding, Compassion. And yet there have been times when I have been totally unable to ‘sight’ this…………hence my concepts of God remain inconsistent and not stable, passing. They may return but nevertheless they passed and then returned.
In pure Faith however, such concepts do not pass – only sense perception or awareness of them. Pure or naked, dark Faith presents an alternative perception or awareness of God.
I will respond to other Posts where and if I can; however time and word count too are limiting me to the above. A very quick read of other Posts does indicate to me that discussion is moving out of my field of confident knowledge and that merely means I probably wont comment, but still intend to read with care all Posts.
Regards all, Barb
Reen – Post #21]
The belief is that the “self” is merely a stream of
“experiences”…and that nothing can be pointed to
that constitutes a “self”, in reality. [Go with the flow!]
This concept, of course, is rejected in Christianity,
where we are to “transcend” self, by the grace of
God -not “deny” that a self exists.
I’m wondering Reen if to comment on ‘the self’ there needs to be common agreement about what exactly ‘the self’ is as a common concept for the purposes of discussion and then to determine through discussion whether it exists or not. Perhaps one definition has been established in other Posts which I have not yet read with sufficient care. Certainly in Catholic thought the self exists and I tend towards that it does from my own concept of what it is. I am neither versed in Eastern theology, and with Catholic theology I merely have a working knowledge and not at all well versed in theology; However, I do have an experience of ‘self’ in that I amount to a mixture of thoughts, desires and motivations etc. etc. I may also have a concept of who I am and I am not necessarily correct in this assessment. I may think that I am right on an issue including a description of who I am when I am not. Hence the false self is in charge. If my false self is in charge, then my thoughts etc. are merely a ‘puff of smoke’ because my concept of myself is entirely inaccurate to the reality. About all I can claim with real confidence is that I am a human being.
Mastery of self comes about through detachment from all the above. This is not at all not caring. Rather a freedom to act against all the above for a positive or negative reason, hopefully positive. If for example I am in the presence of a depressed person and I am full of joy………I have the freedom to detach myself from my joy and act with empathy, understanding and compassion and so on and so forth. Detachment is a function of interior freedom. Freedom also leads to serenity and peace.
Quoting Reen………Post #21
To realize that each phenomenon rises,
endures, and…passes away. A sense of
equanimity arises, as a result of this practice.
I agree with this comment Reen………….as St. Paul says “all things pass only God remains”. And it is my experience that all things do indeed pass. Nothing in life is stable and consistent except God or rather my concept of God since God cannot be known and is Absolute Mystery. Possibly my prime concept of God is that He is Absolute Loving Mercy and Understanding, Compassion. And yet there have been times when I have been totally unable to ‘sight’ this…………hence my concepts of God remain inconsistent and not stable, passing. They may return but nevertheless they passed and then returned.
In pure Faith however, such concepts do not pass – only sense perception or awareness of them. Pure or naked, dark Faith presents an alternative perception or awareness of God.
I will respond to other Posts where and if I can; however time and word count too are limiting me to the above. A very quick read of other Posts does indicate to me that discussion is moving out of my field of confident knowledge and that merely means I probably wont comment, but still intend to read with care all Posts.
Regards all, Barb