Made in God's Image?

[ZenFred]

I hope this message finds all of you in contentment and peace.

I have been contemplating the nature of divine/transcendent reality (aka God) and was wondering about the Christian explanation of divine nature.

When you say that we are made in God’s image, obviously that doesn’t mean that God has a physical body (apart from the incarnation). But does that mean that God has a human-like (though perfect) mind that has sensation, perception, volition/thinking/judgement something like ours? Is the will of God anything like the human will (again perfected)?

At least in the biblical view (again apart from the incarnation) God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions, able to communicate through human language.

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

Namaste, Fred

 

[tonyrey]

God must transcend and be superior** in every respect **to everything we know - including persons with the capacity for truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love.

Peace be with you, Fred.

 

[hasantas]

Namaste, Fred

İf there is a verse in Gospels that God created man in God’s image then it needs a very careful interpretation because speechs of God is so extensive.

God has no any image. Human can not grasp an infinite thing. God is infinite and eternal with His all attributes and essence.

İn a hadiths it is said " God created Adam like/unto image of Rahman or God". There are many different interpretations for that hadith. Most valid meaning is that Rahman means grace and mercy. Human is the most in need among creatures and human is most recipient of God’s grace and mercy.

The other meaning is that human shows most of God’s attributes just like life, love, speaking, hearing, force, etc. But micro human attributes is being given to understand God’s inifinite attributes. For example if human did not could see he would not understand God’s eternal and infinite see. İndeed human has no anything because when mankind die he lose everything. But God is presence eternally and never dissolve.

 

[hazcompat]

JOHN OF RUYSBROECK

The final state of the Christian mystic, then, is not annihilation in the Absolute. It is a condition wherein we dwell wholly in God, one life and truth with Him; yet still “feel God and ourselves,” as the lover feels his beloved, in a perfect union which depends for its joy on an invincible otherness. The soul, transfused and transfigured by the Divine Love as molten iron is by the fire, becomes, it is true, "one simple blessedness with God"35 yet ever retains its individuality: one with God beyond itself, yet other than God within itself.36
The “deified man” is fully human still, but spiritualised through and through; not by the destruction of his personality, but by the taking up of his manhood into God. There he finds, not a static beatitude, but a Height, a Depth, a Breadth of which he is made part, yet to which he can never attain: for the creature, even at its highest, remains finite, and is conscious that Infinity perpetually eludes its grasp and leads it on. So heaven itself is discovered to be no mere passive fulfillment, but rather a forward-moving life:37 an ever new loving and tasting, new exploring and enjoying of the Infinite Fulness of God, that inexhaustible Object of our knowledge and delight. It is the eternal voyage of the adventurous soul on the vast and stormy sea of the Divine.

The path is the goal

Be well ZenFred

Peace

 

[hazcompat]

Blessed Angela of Foligno

HOW IT MAY BE KNOWN THAT GOD HATH ENTERED INTO THE SOUL
IT must be known that God cometh sometimes unto the soul when it hath neither called, nor prayed unto, nor summoned Him. And He doth instill into the soul a fire and a love and a sweetness not customary, wherein it doth greatly delight and rejoice ; and it doth believe that this hath been wrought by God Himself there present, but this is not certain.
Presently the soul doth perceive that God is inwardly within itself, because albeit it cannot behold Him within it doth nevertheless perceive that His grace is present with it, wherein it doth greatly delight. Yet is not even this certain.
Presently it doth further perceive that God cometh unto it with most sweet words, wherein it delighteth yet more, and with much rejoicing doth it feel God within it ; yet do some doubts still remain, albeit but few. For the soul possesseth as yet no perfect certainty, neither is it assured that God is truly within it, because such converse and such feelings can be produced likewise by other spirits.
Wherefore is it still in doubt. And it seemeth unto me that this cometh either of its own malice and sinfulness, or else truly by the will of God, who desireth not that the soul should feel certain and secure. But when the soul doth feel the presence of God more deeply than is customary, then doth it certify unto itself that He is within it.
It doth feel it, I say, with an understanding so marvellous and so profound, and with such great love and divine fire, that it loseth all love for itself and for the body, and it speaketh and knoweth and understandeth those things of the which it hath never heard from any mortal whatsoever. And it understandeth with great illumination, and with much difficulty doth it hold its peace ; and if it doth hold its peace, it holdeth it out of the abundance of its zeal, that it may not be displeasing unto God its Lover nor cause offence, and likewise by reason of its humility ; for it desireth not to speak of things so exceeding high that it may not draw attention unto itself.

 

[hazcompat]

Blessed Angela (cont.)

Thus hath it happened divers times unto me, that, out of my burning desire to work the salvation of my neighbour, I did speak things for the which I was reproved, and it was said unto me, " Sister, turn thee again unto the Holy Scriptures, for they say not thus, and therefore do we not understand thee."
But with that feeling whereby it is certified unto the soul that God dwelleth within it, there is given unto it a disposition so perfect that it doth most entirely and verily agree with the soul in all things, and in every way do all the members of the body agree with the soul and do truly form one cause together with it ; neither do they rebel against the will of the soul, but do perfectly desire those things which are of God, but which, nevertheless, they had not heretofore in any way desired. And this disposition is granted unto the soul through grace whereby it doth perceive that the Divine Being hath entered into it, and hath granted it the assurance and the desire of God and of those things which are of God, after the manner of the true love wherewith God hath loved us. Thus doth the soul feel that God is mingled with it and hath made companionship with it.
Further, when God cometh unto the soul, it is some times given unto it to behold Him, and it beholdeth Him devoid of any bodily shape or form, and more clearly than doth one man behold another. For the eyes of the soul do behold a spiritual and not a bodily presence, of the which I am not able to speak because words and imagination do fail me. And in very truth the soul doth rejoice in that sight with an ineffable joy and regardeth naught else, because this it is which doth fill it with most inestimable satisfaction.
This searching and beholding (whereby God is seen in such a manner that the soul can behold naught else) is so profound that much doth it grieve me that I cannot make manifest aught whatsoever of it, seeing that it is not a thing the which can be touched or imagined or judged of. Moreover, the soul doth know in many other ways that God hath without doubt entered into it, of the which ways I will now speak of two.
One is an holy unction which doth so instantly revive the soul, make meek all the members of the body, and cause them to agree together with the soul, that they cannot be touched or offended by anything whatsoever the which could even in the smallest degree agitate the soul. Therefore doth it feel and hear that God speaketh within it, and by means of this great and in all ways unspeakable unction the soul doth understand with the utmost certainty that God is within it, because no saint nor any angel in Paradise would have power to grant this. But seeing how that it is a thing the which cannot be expressed, it grieveth me that I can find no words wherewith to describe it in comparison of that which it truly is.
Wherefore I pray God that He will pardon me, for this is not of mine own will, and if I were able and if it were pleasing unto God, I would make manifest somewhat of His goodness. The other way whereby the soul knoweth that God is within it is by an embrace which He doth give unto the soul. There is neither father, nor mother, nor son, nor any other person whatsoever who can embrace the object beloved with so great a love as that wherewith God embraceth the soul. For He doth embrace it with such love and draw it unto Himself with such sweetness and gentleness that methinketh there is not a man in the world who can declare it, nor express it, nor believe it unless he hath himself experienced it ; and although he might perchance divine somewhat of this love, yet could he not possibly know it as it truly is. Of a surety, God doth implant most sweet love in the soul, the which doth make it burn for Christ alone. And it beareth with it so great a light (whereby it understandeth the fulness of the goodness of God which it experienceth within itself) that it hath understanding of much more than it feeleth within itself.
Then hath it the assurance and certitude that Christ dwelleth within it ; but all that we can say is as nothing in comparison with that which it really is. Then the soul hath no more tears, whether of joy or of sorrow or of any other kind, seeing that when the soul hath tears it is in a lower state. For God poureth into the soul an exceeding great sweetness, in a measure so abundant that it can ask nothing more yea, verily, it would be in Paradise if this should endure, its joy being so great that it filleth the whole body ; and all injury which the soul suffereth, whether by deeds or words, is esteemed as naught and is turned into sweetness.

Peace

 

[hazcompat]

The Philokalia

St Maximos the Confessor
Four Hundred Texts on Love
First Century

1. When the intellect is engaged in the contemplation of things visible, it searches out either the natural principles of these things or the spiritual principles which they reflect, or else it seeks their original cause.
2. When the intellect is absorbed in the contemplation of things invisible, it seeks their natural principles, the cause of their generation and whatever follows from this, as well as the providential order and judgment which relates to them.
3. When the intellect is established in God, it at first ardently longs to discover the principles of His essence. But God’s inmost nature does not admit of such investigation, which is indeed beyond the capacity of everything created. The qualities that appertain to His nature, however, are accessible to the intellect’s longing: I mean the qualities of eternity, infinity, indeterminateness, goodness, wisdom, and the power of creating, preserving and judging creatures. Yet of these, only infinity may be grasped fully; and the very fact of knowing nothing is knowledge surpassing the intellect, as the theologians Gregory of Nazianzos and Dionysios have said.

Peace

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I hope this message finds all of you in contentment and peace.

I have been contemplating the nature of divine/transcendent reality (aka God) and was wondering about the Christian explanation of divine nature.

When you say that we are made in God’s image, obviously that doesn’t mean that God has a physical body (apart from the incarnation). But does that mean that God has a human-like (though perfect) mind that has sensation, perception, volition/thinking/judgement something like ours? Is the will of God anything like the human will (again perfected)?

At least in the biblical view (again apart from the incarnation) God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions, able to communicate through human language.

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

Namaste, Fred

Excluding the incarnation (that is, only within the divine nature), I would hesitate to say that God has these human like attributes only perfected. Rather, I would say that God has divine attributes, and that our human attributes reflect them somewhat.

For example, God is immutable - unchanging - so He cannot have emotion like moods that we do, going from happy to sad, or “getting angry” when He wasn’t angry “before” (quotes because God is not restricted by time, and again Jesus has a human nature and does have human emotions, but not talking about those). But there is something about God which our emotions reflect which we might call God’s emotions - and in fact do, because we can’t really refer to them as anything else. But our emotions are essentially changing things, where this cannot be true of whatever emotion like attribute God has.

A link focused on this example but that explains lots of things related to this question (which I am still reading, but which seems excellent): www2.franciscan.edu/plee/doesgodhaveemotions.htm

 

[grannymh]

I hope this message finds all of you in contentment and peace.

I have been contemplating the nature of divine/transcendent reality (aka God) and was wondering about the Christian explanation of divine nature.

When you say that we are made in God’s image, obviously that doesn’t mean that God has a physical body (apart from the incarnation). But does that mean that God has a human-like (though perfect) mind that has sensation, perception, volition/thinking/judgement something like ours? Is the will of God anything like the human will (again perfected)?

At least in the biblical view (again apart from the incarnation) God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions, able to communicate through human language.

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

Namaste, Fred

You are not alone. Most of us, at some point in our lives, have some kind of difficulty with the marvelous relationship between God and persons.

May I begin with some basics about God as known by Christians. First, there is only one almighty God Who created everything. What was created was our own material world and our human nature residing in this world. Regarding the nature of this Creator God, we describe it as totally spiritual, that is, God is pure spirit without restrictions. Nothing limits God. The beauty and intelligibility of our universe reflects the creative power of God.

We all know that the author of the first three chapters of Genesis was not a Ph.D. scientist. Nonetheless, this author was a keen observer. He observed the marvels of the universe such as the sky, earth, sun, water, etc., and correctly attributed them to God as Creator. He observed the animals, birds, fish, and creeping things. Finally, he observed himself and fellow humans. Then as now, humankind is peerless. We are the pinnacle of earthly creation. What makes humans different from everything else is that we can communicate with our spiritual Creator God Who is not a natural being like ourselves and our universe. Within our nature, there is the inherent sense of the spiritual, that is, the super-natural. This sense of the spiritual aka immaterial or non-material, has existed since the dawn of human history. Obviously, this recognition of a spiritual existence had taken many forms, some good, some not so good.

By the time the author of Genesis, chapters 1-3, put quill to parchment, there were numerous populations having different views of the super-natural. It was the Hebrews who had maintained the tradition of humankind beginning as Adam and Eve and their relationship with a totally spiritual God as their Maker. The non-scientist author, an excellent observer of real life, recognized that the only way humans, with definitely physical/material anatomies, could communicate with their spiritual, non-material Maker was that at the point of human creation, God created a way for humans to remain human, yet have a spiritual principle which would enable them to have a relationship with God. Stepping back so that he could get a good look at humans who, at that moment, were worshiping the One God, the author realized that in order to communicate with God, these people needed to be spiritual in some way.

In addition, God often communicated with the Hebrews by way of prophets and other “holy” people. Because God was not a material being like ourselves, God needed a way to communicate Himself to a material human being.

At this point, the Genesis author added the creation of human beings to the list of swimming creatures and winged birds. What is noticeable about Genesis 1: 26-27, is the shift from a general list to a specific material creation which, in context, is different from everything else.

Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
​

It was certainly clear that humans, with their decomposing anatomies, were not divine. Yet, human communication with God, and especially a loving relationship, needed to be beyond that of common humanity. Humans had to be similar in some way to God. That similarity had to be part of the created human nature. The author correctly deduced that the human nature was both material and spiritual. Having this spiritual principle, known as the spiritual rational soul, makes it possible for humans to have a true relationship with God. God did not change His nature in order to be in a relationship with humans. God designed human nature with the goal of being in relationship with Himself. To meet this goal, humans were given the spiritual aspect, aka soul, which was needed for them to seek and love their spiritual Creator.

The limited spiritual aspect of humans made them similar to, yet, not the same as God, an unlimited Spiritual Being. Thus, a living relationship could be established between Divinity and humanity. This is what is being described in Genesis 1: 26-27.

“God created man in His image;
in the divine image He created him;
male and female He created them.”
​

 

[Linusthe2nd]

You are not alone. Most of us, at some point in our lives, have some kind of difficulty with the marvelous relationship between God and persons.

May I begin with some basics about God as known by Christians. First, there is only one almighty God Who created everything. What was created was our own material world and our human nature residing in this world. Regarding the nature of this Creator God, we describe it as totally spiritual, that is, God is pure spirit without restrictions. Nothing limits God. The beauty and intelligibility of our universe reflects the creative power of God.

We all know that the author of the first three chapters of Genesis was not a Ph.D. scientist. Nonetheless, this author was a keen observer. He observed the marvels of the universe such as the sky, earth, sun, water, etc., and correctly attributed them to God as Creator. He observed the animals, birds, fish, and creeping things. Finally, he observed himself and fellow humans. Then as now, humankind is peerless. We are the pinnacle of earthly creation. What makes humans different from everything else is that we can communicate with our spiritual Creator God Who is not a natural being like ourselves and our universe. Within our nature, there is the inherent sense of the spiritual, that is, the super-natural. This sense of the spiritual aka immaterial or non-material, has existed since the dawn of human history. Obviously, this recognition of a spiritual existence had taken many forms, some good, some not so good.

By the time the author of Genesis, chapters 1-3, put quill to parchment, there were numerous populations having different views of the super-natural. It was the Hebrews who had maintained the tradition of humankind beginning as Adam and Eve and their relationship with a totally spiritual God as their Maker. The non-scientist author, an excellent observer of real life, recognized that the only way humans, with definitely physical/material anatomies, could communicate with their spiritual, non-material Maker was that at the point of human creation, God created a way for humans to remain human, yet have a spiritual principle which would enable them to have a relationship with God. Stepping back so that he could get a good look at humans who, at that moment, were worshiping the One God, the author realized that in order to communicate with God, these people needed to be spiritual in some way.

In addition, God often communicated with the Hebrews by way of prophets and other “holy” people. Because God was not a material being like ourselves, God needed a way to communicate Himself to a material human being.

At this point, the Genesis author added the creation of human beings to the list of swimming creatures and winged birds. What is noticeable about Genesis 1: 26-27, is the shift from a general list to a specific material creation which, in context, is different from everything else.

Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
​

It was certainly clear that humans, with their decomposing anatomies, were not divine. Yet, human communication with God, and especially a loving relationship, needed to be beyond that of common humanity. Humans had to be similar in some way to God. That similarity had to be part of the created human nature. The author correctly deduced that the human nature was both material and spiritual. Having this spiritual principle, known as the spiritual rational soul, makes it possible for humans to have a true relationship with God. God did not change His nature in order to be in a relationship with humans. God designed human nature with the goal of being in relationship with Himself. To meet this goal, humans were given the spiritual aspect, aka soul, which was needed for them to seek and love their spiritual Creator.

The limited spiritual aspect of humans made them similar to, yet, not the same as God, an unlimited Spiritual Being. Thus, a living relationship could be established between Divinity and humanity. This is what is being described in Genesis 1: 26-27.

“God created man in His image;
in the divine image He created him;
male and female He created them.”
​

A very good meditation Granny and quite original.

Linus2nd

 

[Counterpoint]

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

Some Buddhists have no problem with the personification of the Dharmakaya.

Some Mahayana Buddhists consider [Buddha] an embodiment of the cosmic Dharmakaya, born for the benefit of others.[15] (source: Wikipedia: God in Buddhism)

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I hope this message finds all of you in contentment and peace.

I have been contemplating the nature of divine/transcendent reality (aka God) and was wondering about the Christian explanation of divine nature.

When you say that we are made in God’s image, obviously that doesn’t mean that God has a physical body (apart from the incarnation). But does that mean that God has a human-like (though perfect) mind that has sensation, perception, volition/thinking/judgement something like ours? Is the will of God anything like the human will (again perfected)?

The Catholic explanation of God defines God as a Pure Spirit, containing in His Nature the absolute perfection of Existence. That is His Nature is Pure Existence and the absolute fullness thereof. As such He is the source of all other but lesser forms of existence. And since this is so, His very Nature is reflected, but imperfectly, in all He created.

Since He is the Perfection of Existence, He natrually is Perfect Intellect, Will, Beauty, Goodness, Love all bound up in and one with His Existence. One of the creatures He made was man who reflects His Nature in that man has intelligence and will as powers of his spiritual nature.

God Himself does not have senses as man does and God’s Intellect does not move by degrees and steps like ours. He simply knows and wills and acts in one eternal " motion " of His Nature or Existence. " To be " is for God to know, to will, and to act, all at once.

At least in the biblical view (again apart from the incarnation) God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions, able to communicate through human language.

God does not have emotions and does not " make " decisions.These are analogies that man has always used to describe God in human terms, they are antromorphisms only.

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

The Catholic Church teaches that we can know this only through God’s direct Revelation which was completed in Jesus Christ, who was not only the eternally begotten Son of God but also was God. And while the Second Person assumed a human nature, He still maintained His purely spiritual existence in the Divine Trinity. So one can say that from the moment of the Incarnation, the Second Person of the Trinity exists simultaneously in two forms and will do so eternally.

You are getting into the mystery of the Trinity here which has been Revealed by God Himself. And no one will ever be able to understand this. We can only believe it is so because God has Revealed it.

According to this Revelation the Father is one Person, the Son is another Person, eternally begotten by the Father. The communication of intellect, will, and love between the Father and the Son eternally forms the Holy Spirit, the third Person. Each is fully God, each is God in all His fullness, yet each is a different Person. Personhood in the One God is not like human personhood. And, as I said, we can only believe it, we cannot understand it.

But we can make some human analogies by way of illustration. Take a tree for example. There is the tree, yet it has a trunk, branches, and leaves. The branches and the leaves are clearly part of the essence of what the tree is, yet each is different.

Or take a human family composed of a Father, a Mother, and a Child. Each is a member of the family, yet each is a different person.

These are poor examples but they help illustrate how God is three Persons.

Linus2nd

 

[Counterpoint]

God does not have emotions and does not " make " decisions.These are analogies that man has always used to describe God in human terms, they are antromorphisms only.

Two Questions:

1. Do you consider “love” to be an emotion?
2. The divine “choice” to create or not to create was not actually a decision?

 

[ZenFred]

I hope everyone is having a holy and contemplative Good Friday, by the way. I am always impressed with the depth of responses on this forum.
It seems to me that in discussing Abrahamic faiths it always comes back to revelation. Christianity has as its core the revealed claim that Jesus is uniquely God and the sole path of redemption of sin. If these claims are put aside, then Christian, Muslim, Taoist, Buddhist, and many others are just differing perspectives or points of view. But despite agreement or at least a compatibility with the nature of the invisible, unrevealed God, it comes down to that central question. Is Jesus the only example of “God made man” and is the “way, the truth, the light”? Which of course from a Zen perspective, is unanswerable.
As the heart sutra says “Within emptiness [true reality] there is no seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no tasting, no feeling, no thinking. No realm of sight, no realm of mind.” This is to say that reality is beyond human conception and knowledge via our thinking minds. There is no way for us to know if such claims are true (or false). Counterpoint, I would say that even my fellow Buddhists who believe in literal deities or bodhisattvas are clinging to idols of the mind, yet so would be denouncing all possibilities of divine personhood(s).
Grannymh, you make an excellent point. If “God” were a reality that so removed/unfathomable/alien to human nature then we would not be able to experience or interact with Him in any way? The deep mystery is how is it that God is both completely unfathomable and transcendent, yet at the same time accessible and be intimate with us, non-transcendent human beings. The focus of my zen practice is experiencing that transcendence and I feel it is constantly available and almost inviting as well as transformative and healing, yet completely indescribable and undefinable.
I think perhaps statements such as “Those who do not profess to be Christians are going to hell” do not appreciate an understanding of either Christianity, which teaches a transcendent God, or Buddhism, which in many of its forms is not about belief or non-belief, but direct experience of reality as it is without mental labels.
Again wishing everyone a blessed and holy Good Friday

 

[fred_conty]

I hope this message finds all of you in contentment and peace.

I have been contemplating the nature of divine/transcendent reality (aka God) and was wondering about the Christian explanation of divine nature.

When you say that we are made in God’s image, obviously that doesn’t mean that God has a physical body (apart from the incarnation). But does that mean that God has a human-like (though perfect) mind that has sensation, perception, volition/thinking/judgement something like ours? Is the will of God anything like the human will (again perfected)?

At least in the biblical view (again apart from the incarnation) God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions, able to communicate through human language.

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

Namaste, Fred

…Christian explanation of divine nature.

He is intellegent and has a will, both perfect. He sees his whole creation from beginning of time to the end of time like in one big bubble. He supports every creature, no matter how big or how tiny, in existence so that it will not fall back into void. Therefore he is all powerful, all knowing, all beautiful, and yet simple with no parts. “I Am who Am” as he said to Moses. Or as John said, “God is love.”

When you say that we are made in God’s image…

In the beginning of John’s gospel we read,
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be.”

The “Word” was the Son, and “God” refers to the Father. And “Word was God” refers to being God as well as the Father being God. The Word is the perfect image of the Father. And it was through this Word, image, that the Father created everything that was made. And nothing that was made ever came into existence without coming through the image of the Word.

So what this means more precisely is that the Son is God, the Father is God. The Son is the perfect image of the Father and both existed from eternity and had no beginning. But those things that did have a beginning the Father brought into being using the Word, his eternal thought, to make all things like him in some way, greater or lessor. Man being the highest, would reflect the Word of the Father to a greater degree by their spiritual soul, intellect and will. And also by the grace of divine life.

God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions,…

When God is described as having human passions and senses, he is being described in an anthropromorphic way. Because that is how we as human beings are best able to understand. But he is not that way in himself.

When we say he has love, it isn’t like we have love. But rather God IS love. Which means he can never lose his love as we can. And love is not just an emotion, but an act. And this is why he made us, out of love, to share with him his own happiness.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[Pablopedro]

I hope this message finds all of you in contentment and peace.

I have been contemplating the nature of divine/transcendent reality (aka God) and was wondering about the Christian explanation of divine nature.

When you say that we are made in God’s image, obviously that doesn’t mean that God has a physical body (apart from the incarnation). But does that mean that God has a human-like (though perfect) mind that has sensation, perception, volition/thinking/judgement something like ours? Is the will of God anything like the human will (again perfected)?

At least in the biblical view (again apart from the incarnation) God clearly is depicted as having emotions, making decisions, able to communicate through human language.

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

Namaste, Fred

I think what the matter comes down to is in Christianity God is an intelligent person. God is not simply a force or unintelligent thing. God has a will, purpose, sentience, self-awareness, and yes emotions. In fact our Church teaches that God created us because he loved us and created us for the purpose of Loving us. The purpose of existence then is being in a loving relationship with God. This is how we are created in His image, not only our minds, but that we are spiritual beings not only physical beings.

 

[tonyrey]

I hope everyone is having a holy and contemplative Good Friday, by the way. I am always impressed with the depth of responses on this forum.
It seems to me that in discussing Abrahamic faiths it always comes back to revelation. Christianity has as its core the revealed claim that Jesus is uniquely God and the sole path of redemption of sin. If these claims are put aside, then Christian, Muslim, Taoist, Buddhist, and many others are just differing perspectives or points of view. But despite agreement or at least a compatibility with the nature of the invisible, unrevealed God, it comes down to that central question. Is Jesus the only example of “God made man” and is the “way, the truth, the light”? Which of course from a Zen perspective, is unanswerable.
As the heart sutra says “Within emptiness [true reality] there is no seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no tasting, no feeling, no thinking. No realm of sight, no realm of mind.” This is to say that reality is beyond human conception and knowledge via our thinking minds. There is no way for us to know if such claims are true (or false). Counterpoint, I would say that even my fellow Buddhists who believe in literal deities or bodhisattvas are clinging to idols of the mind, yet so would be denouncing all possibilities of divine personhood(s).
Grannymh, you make an excellent point. If “God” were a reality that so removed/unfathomable/alien to human nature then we would not be able to experience or interact with Him in any way? The deep mystery is how is it that God is both completely unfathomable and transcendent, yet at the same time accessible and be intimate with us, non-transcendent human beings. The focus of my zen practice is experiencing that transcendence and I feel it is constantly available and almost inviting as well as transformative and healing, yet completely indescribable and undefinable.
I think perhaps statements such as “Those who do not profess to be Christians are going to hell” do not appreciate an understanding of either Christianity, which teaches a transcendent God, or Buddhism, which in many of its forms is not about belief or non-belief, but direct experience of reality as it is without mental labels.
Again wishing everyone a blessed and holy Good Friday

What counts in the long run is how we live not what we claim to believe. Jesus demonstrated how we can change the world…

All of us **without exception **are blessed by His unselfish courage and love.

 

[tonyrey]

I think what the matter comes down to is in Christianity God is an intelligent person. God is not simply a force or unintelligent thing. God has a will, purpose, sentience, self-awareness, and yes emotions. In fact our Church teaches that God created us because he loved us and created us for the purpose of Loving us. The purpose of existence then is being in a loving relationship with God. This is how we are created in His image, not only our minds, but that we are spiritual beings not only physical beings.

We cannot love God unless we love our brothers and sisters:

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

1 John 4:20

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Two Questions:

1. Do you consider “love” to be an emotion?
2. The divine “choice” to create or not to create was not actually a decision?

1. What I have said on this issue is purely my personal opinion. Certainly a person can consider the " love " and " hate " God has as an emotion. But I don’t see how you could regard these in the same sense as one would regard human emotions. The Church teaches nothing much beyond the fact that God loves himself and all that he has created, hates evil, and possess an eternal joy within himself from his own infinite perfection and goodness and through the internal communion between the Divine Persons. My personal opinion is that God’s love and hate are eternal acts of his will and are merely an intellectual appreciation of what I have just said. No one can say exactly though, so I suppose one can believe as one pleases as long as one recognizes that whatever we say of God will fall short of the reality and must be cleansed of any antromorphic tint.
2. When we use the word " choice " in regard to God we are not speaking of a " choice, " we are employing an antromorphism. All the attributes we give God are one thing, the Divine Act of Existence. Choice implies movement of the will and there is no movement in God. He eternally is and does, in one Act of Existence. So in God, there is no " decision " in the human sense of mulling over a problem and then deciding to act. In God there is no movement. He eternally knows, wills, and acts. That’s the best I can do off the top of my head.

Linus2nd

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Obviously, I am having trouble wit the idea that God is some kind of supernatural “person”. Yet truth is truth, and perhaps He is that way.

The apostle John tells us that God is love. That point alone is sufficient to explain how we are made in God’s image and likeness. Our God is a personal God, not just the First Cause of Aristotle or Spinoza. If God were not a Person, how would it be possible to love God and communicate with God? How would it be possible for God to love us? It is simply impossible to intelligently imagine a mindless and heartless God. That way lies deism, and deism often leads to atheism.