Madison Diocese Provides Contraceptive Coverage (Complies with State Law)

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Ana_v

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In a previous and recent thread, I quoted a comment that stated that the Diocese of New York already offers coverage of contraception (the implication of the commenter being, that Cardinal-designate Dolan’s public objection to the HHS mandate is superfluous/dishonest).

Well, today the same commenter posted this article (from 2010) on his FB: Madison Diocese offers birth control insurance, but warns employees not to use it
"A state law is forcing the Madison Catholic Diocese this month to begin offering its employees insurance coverage for birth control.

However, a diocesan spokesman said employees will be warned against using the benefit and that open defiance of Catholic teaching on the issue could ultimately lead to termination.

St. Mary’s Hospital in Madison has notified employees that it, too, soon will be required for the first time to cover contraception.

Both entities sought to get around the mandate by becoming self-insured, but the costs proved prohibitive."
1) In light of this, what is the proper response that Catholic organizations should adopt with regards to the HHS mandate: Provide contraception coverage but prohibit employees from accessing contraception using that coverage or, outright refuse to comply with the mandate? If the latter, then, are we to say that the Diocese of Madison committed a moral wrong in complying with the state law?

Also posted his FB page today (2007 article): Connecticut bishops reverse stand on Plan B
"After fighting against the passage of a new state law requiring hospitals to provide the “emergency contraceptive” Plan B pill to rape victims, the Catholic bishops of Connecticut have announced that Catholic hospitals will comply with the law when it goes into effect next week. "
I think readers of this thread can see where he is going with this. He is suggesting that the Catholics undermine themselves in opposing the HHS mandate (on the argued basis of infringement of religious liberty), because they have complied with the law in previous occasions when the law obliged Catholic coverage of contraceptives.

**2) **What is your opinion – Are Catholic Bishops ultimately going to submit to the mandate (assuming the mandate is still alive on Aug. 1, 2013)?
 
I’m unclear on exactly where the conflict is here.

Like most employers, the Diocese contracts with independent private insurance companies (such as Blue Cross) to provide insurance coverage for their employees.

Whatever medical claims are submitted are paid by the insurance company, not by the employer. The employer (the Diocese) never even sees the claims (and, under HIPAA, it would actually be unlawful in the United States). I see no moral conflict on the part of the Diocese.

This would be like saying it is wrong for the Diocese to buy paper at WalMart because WalMart also sells condoms.

I’ve never seen a grocery store that didn’t sell contraceptives, but I seriously doubt the Bishops grow their own food. They get their food from grocery stores like everyone else. A store where condoms could be bought, but (hopefully) aren’t.
 
Yikes.

I will be adding the Madison Diocese and the Diocese of New York to my prayers. I wish that they would be going with what the Bishops of the country are advocating. I cannot believe that these dioceses are supporting this in blatant defiance to the Church’s teaching and stance made by the courageous bishops of the United States of America.

What Amercia needs now are Catholics who are willing to stand for their faith no matter what the cost even unto death if need be. I know that you may be saying it’s all easy since I do not live in your country, well it’s not becuase I have a great deal of many friends and family that will suffer if this mandate goes into effect.
 
These Diocese should stop this and refuse on religious grounds. Period. We must, under penalty of conscience disobey this unjust, unholy law.
“15. The one only reason which men have for not obeying is when anything is demanded of them which is openly repugnant to the natural or the divine law, for it is equally unlawful to command to do anything in which the law of nature or the will of God is violated. If, therefore, it should happen to any one to be compelled to prefer one or the other, viz., to disregard either the commands of God or those of rulers, he must obey Jesus Christ, who commands us to “give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s,”[18] and must reply courageously after the example of the Apostles: “We ought to obey God rather than men.”[19] And yet there is no reason why those who so behave themselves should be accused of refusing obedience; for, if the will of rulers is opposed to the will and the laws of God, they themselves exceed the bounds of their own power and pervert justice; nor can their authority then be valid, which, when there is no justice, is null.”

H.H. Pope Leo XIII; Diuturnum
link papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13civ.htm
 
David, I don’t get it either, and so far, no one has explained it to me to help me understand.

Ana, first of all, an employer can’t warn employees not to use benefits, it’s illegal. Secondly, they’d never know because of HIPPA laws anyway.

Speaking of that, it would be a really good time while this subject is so fresh in the air, for Catholics to once again hear from the pulpits that ABCs is not a matter of conscience.

I don’t know if the mandate will ever stick. I don’t know what the religous based employers will do about it. I do know that if one employer cites ‘religous reasons’ to be excempt from some type of coverage, anther can do the same for another set of coverage, and so on. That could get really old really fast.

I really wish that they would simply exempt all religious based employers, without a discount. And then allow the employees of such a company a voucher from the HHS/rider from the insurance company so that they can get the coverage without the employer feeling they’re all responsible for it. That would make everyone happy and it’s just a paper shuffle that will result in the employer being taken out of the loop.
 
This from the USCCB website:
Claim:“Over half of Americans already live in the 28 States that require insurance companies cover contraception: Several of these States like North Carolina, New York, and California have identical religious employer exemptions.Some States like Colorado, Georgia and Wisconsin have no exemption at all.”
Response: This misleads by ignoring important facts, and some of it is simply false. All the state mandates, even those without religious exemptions, may be avoided by self-insuring prescription drug coverage, by dropping that particular coverage altogether, or by taking refuge in a federal law that pre-empts any state mandates (ERISA). None of these havens is available under the federal mandate. It is also false to claim that North Carolina has an identical exemption. It is broader:It does not require a religious organization to serve primarily people of its own faith, or to fulfill the federal rule’s narrow tax code criterion.Moreover, the North Carolina law, unlike the federal mandate, completely excludes abortifacient drugs like Ella and RU-486 as well as “emergency contraceptives” like Preven.
usccb.org/news/2012/12-020.cfm
 
This is one of the reasons I’m almost glad that this HHS mandate has come to pass as it has. Rather than the slow erosion of religious liberty taken against places here and there(Boston diocesan adoption agencies here, and Illinois diocesan adoption agencies there, and apparently Wisconsin health care plans, too), we have a full-frontal assault. This forces us to band together and fight it head on.

I think that whatever individual dioceses have done thus far to “get by” under whatever battles are raging in their particular locale are really beside the point. This HHS mandate cannot pass and conformity is not an option.

Perhaps the recent round of ad limina visits had something to do with it as well. 🙂
 
This is one of the reasons I’m almost glad that this HHS mandate has come to pass as it has. Rather than the slow erosion of religious liberty taken against places here and there(Boston diocesan adoption agencies here, and Illinois diocesan adoption agencies there, and apparently Wisconsin health care plans, too), we have a full-frontal assault. This forces us to band together and fight it head on.

I think that whatever individual dioceses have done thus far to “get by” under whatever battles are raging in their particular locale are really beside the point. This HHS mandate cannot pass and conformity is not an option.

Perhaps the recent round of ad limina visits had something to do with it as well. 🙂
I guess that’s right. When the federal government makes a frontal assault on religious liberty it’s pretty stark. And so are the consequences.

In my opinion, no Catholic institution should comply with the mandate. And they should refuse to pay the fine.

And, like EWTN, every religious institution in the U.S. should file suit to stop the HHS mandate.
 
The problem is that HHS requires that Catholic organizations pay a company to pay for immoral “medical treatments.” This is a too-direct a participation in immoral activity.

Say your son came and told you that his girlfriend was pregnant and he wanted you to pay for an abortion. You would not be able, morally, to do that. Just because he would be the person actually handing over the money would not mitigate the fact that you paid for the abortion, would it?
I’m unclear on exactly where the conflict is here.

Like most employers, the Diocese contracts with independent private insurance companies (such as Blue Cross) to provide insurance coverage for their employees.
Most large groups can tailor their policies.
Whatever medical claims are submitted are paid by the insurance company, not by the employer. The employer (the Diocese) never even sees the claims (and, under HIPAA, it would actually be unlawful in the United States). I see no moral conflict on the part of the Diocese.
This would be like saying it is wrong for the Diocese to buy paper at WalMart because WalMart also sells condoms.
I’ve never seen a grocery store that didn’t sell contraceptives, but I seriously doubt the Bishops grow their own food. They get their food from grocery stores like everyone else. A store where condoms could be bought, but (hopefully) aren’t.
The difference is distance of participation. The Church has no control over what the store sells so is not participating in the sale of condoms. Paying an insurance company to pay out for abc is more direct and so the Catholic organization is participating in sinful activity.
David, I don’t get it either, and so far, no one has explained it to me to help me understand.

…I don’t know if the mandate will ever stick. I don’t know what the religous based employers will do about it. I do know that if one employer cites ‘religous reasons’ to be excempt from some type of coverage, anther can do the same for another set of coverage, and so on. That could get really old really fast.
Like conscientious objection, it could probably be limited to actual religions who have actual religious problems with certain medical treatments, like JWs with blood transfusions, etc.
I really wish that they would simply exempt all religious based employers, without a discount. And then allow the employees of such a company a voucher from the HHS/rider from the insurance company so that they can get the coverage without the employer feeling they’re all responsible for it.
I don’t think that will make the cooperation remote enough to work without a discount. All that would be doing is inserting another level between the Catholic organization and the payment–it’s still a straight line.

If the government wants to pay for people’s contraception and other immoral things, they can. But they can’t tell the Church to pay some money which they will then use to pay for abc and other immoral things.
 
I’m unclear on exactly where the conflict is here.

Like most employers, the Diocese contracts with independent private insurance companies (such as Blue Cross) to provide insurance coverage for their employees.

Whatever medical claims are submitted are paid by the insurance company, not by the employer.
That’s the way insurance works for small companies. For most dioceses (and larger employers), the insurance company administers the coverage but it is provided by the employer. The insurance company pays for the claims out of the money the employer has set aside or paid up-front. If there is money left over (after paying the administration expense), it generally rolls into the following year’s pool of money. If the claims exceed what the employer has already put into the pool, the employer pays the difference at the end of the plan year. Some employers purchase separate insurance against catastrophic expenses that might make a single year (or a few) out of the norm.

As noted on the USCCB website, in states that have mandated ABC coverage, the Church has been able to stay in compliance by self insuring all of the insurance or at least the prescription drug portion of the coverage. The new HHS mandate would not allow that configuration.
The employer (the Diocese) never even sees the claims (and, under HIPAA, it would actually be unlawful in the United States). I see no moral conflict on the part of the Diocese.
The employer doesn’t see individual claims but they do see a summary report. (ie $XX paid for office visits, $XX paid for prescription coverage, $XX paid for outpatient surgery, $XX paid for cancer treatments, etc.) Employers often get even more detail, for example, dollars spent on claims related to particular health concerns such as heart condidtions or smoking. That way they can tailor wellness programs and healthy living incentives to the needs of the group.
 
That’s the way insurance works for small companies. For most dioceses (and larger employers), the insurance company administers the coverage but it is provided by the employer. The insurance company pays for the claims out of the money the employer has set aside or paid up-front. If there is money left over (after paying the administration expense), it generally rolls into the following year’s pool of money.
WHAT? That model is true only for a non-profit (ie, an HMO like Kaiser Permanente - which happens to be my medical provider). A for-profit insurance company (the large majority of medical providers) is FOR PROFIT. Any profits are paid to the owners (the shareholders) or reinvested in some way. They are NOT returned to the policy holders (customers) - that would defeat the whole concept of “for profit.” A “for-profit” business makes money from its customers; it does not give that money back to its customers.

Insurance companies make money when they are very good at predicting risk (the job of brilliant people called actuaries). A group policy is cheaper than an individual policy because risk is easier to calculate for a group (statistical norms become more reliable).
If the claims exceed what the employer has already put into the pool, the employer pays the difference at the end of the plan year.
No, absolutely not. What you are describing is no different than if the employer was self-insured (ie, no insurance company involved). Most employers (even HUGE multi-billion Euro worldwide corporations such as my employer, with hundreds of thousands of employees) are NOT self-insured - precisely because they do not want to manage the risk. They pay a fixed premium negotiated on an annual basis, and will never pay a dime more (even if the provider is a non-profit). Next year premiums might go up, but there are no retroactive premiums. (Actually this might not be true outside of the United States - my employer is based in Germany, but we’re talking only about US law here, and my coverage options are through US providers).
Some employers purchase separate insurance against catastrophic expenses that might make a single year (or a few) out of the norm.
Not employee health insurance coverage - there’s no such thing. There are always disaster riders for hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. Some employers offer disability insurance, but this is a completely separate policy, and not an extension of medical insurance (and perhaps not even provided by the same company - mine is not).
As noted on the USCCB website, in states that have mandated ABC coverage, the Church has been able to stay in compliance by self insuring all of the insurance or at least the prescription drug portion of the coverage. The new HHS mandate would not allow that configuration.
Yes, I understand. Some Dioceses have been able to bypass private insurance and provide coverage themselves, and thus avoid any requirements that the private insurance companies offer prescription coverage for birth control. But I don’t understand why that is necessary in the first place. Which is my whole point.
The employer doesn’t see individual claims but they do see a summary report. (ie $XX paid for office visits, $XX paid for prescription coverage, $XX paid for outpatient surgery, $XX paid for cancer treatments, etc.)
No they absolutely do not!!! This is insurance company “corporate trade secrets.” Insurance companies absolutely guard this information with their corporate lives! They do not disclose it to ANYONE. This is what they pay their actuaries big bucks to predict. Their livelihood depends on their actuaries predicting these expenses accurately so that they can offer policies expensive enough to cover their costs + earn profits, but not so expensive that they are out-bid by competitors. It’s a fine line, and they closely guard this financial information. If this information became known to their competitor’s actuaries, they could use this information to more accurately predict expenses (because the competitor’s actuaries could build more accurate statistical models - more data equals greater accuracy). Insurance is about one thing, and one thing only - risk management. If you do not understand risk, you cannot manage it. And if you help your competitors understand risk better, you loose.

Insurance companies (if they are publicly traded) disclose the total liability of claims, but NEVER break it down in any way.

You clearly have no idea how insurance works, and are simply making this up as you go along.
 
Many media sources do not well explain what Catholics are objecting to. The mandate does not only require religious organizations to pay for contraceptives use (which is bad enough), but also to pay for sterilizations and abortion-causing drugs. I presume in fact that is why Evangelicals, Orthodox and other religious groups are so vehemently joining in the fight with Catholics against this mandate, groups that have no particular objection to contraception themselves.
 
I guess I could understand the objections to this ruling better if the rhetoric weren’t so ramped up. When I listen to the news I hear pundits and Republicans shouting about Obama’s war on religion, and then it is hard for me to take this issue seriously. I feel then like it is all about politics and not about the issue.
 
No, absolutely not. What you are describing is no different than if the employer was self-insured (ie, no insurance company involved).
I do not want to derail this thread with a lesson about what insurance is or isn’t. I just want to correct this one statement because this term is being used a lot in the HHS debate.

Self-insured does NOT mean no insurance company involved. It simply means that the purchaser (the employer) assumes all or the vast majority of the financial risk. Companies that self insure still use an insurance company for the actuarial portion, the administration and the actual delivery.

(as a disclaimer, I have spent most of my career working with the benefits of mid-size and large corporations. All have self-insured, including the one who covers me now. All have used insurance companies for the benefit administration.)
 
I think that whatever individual dioceses have done thus far to “get by” under whatever battles are raging in their particular locale are really beside the point.
The thing is these dioceses, colleges, etc made a choice: they chose money over Catholic principles. I completely get that from a practical standpoint, but there are those out there who are questioning why these Catholic institutions did not sue then when the attack began. I see their point and I do wonder if it will hurt the current cause. It certainly doesn’t help getting more people on board on our side of the fight.
 
I guess I could understand the objections to this ruling better if the rhetoric weren’t so ramped up. When I listen to the news I hear pundits and Republicans shouting about Obama’s war on religion, and then it is hard for me to take this issue seriously. I feel then like it is all about politics and not about the issue.
If you want some clarity on the facts of the matter, I would encourage you to look at the info on the US Bishops’ website: www.usccb.org/conscience.

The bishops aren’t seeking to better position themselves for the November elections, so their info is not politically slanted. 😉 Of course, they certainly aren’t “impartial” but their information is accurate and pretty matter-of-fact.
 
Self-insured does NOT mean no insurance company involved. It simply means that the purchaser (the employer) assumes all or the vast majority of the financial risk. Companies that self insure still use an insurance company for the actuarial portion, the administration and the actual delivery.
30% of employers are self insured. In a self insured scenario, the employer is the plan administrator. They contract with an insurance company that acts as a Third Party Administrator that generates it’s profit through Administrative Services Only fees. It rents it’s network to the employer, pays the claims on the employer’s behalf, and works with the employer on plan design.

The employer takes on the risk, and generally buys Stop Loss insurance to pay for catastrophic claims. All claims as paid by the employer, from a combination of employee contributions (so called premiums) and employer funds. The employer is responsible for determining employee contributions and for tracking Incurred But Not Realized (IBNR) costs to ensure that they have enough money on hand to pay the claims.

But, the problem with the HHS mandate is that to design a plan without contraceptive coverage (if you offer drug coverage) would be illegal and the TPAs would not comply.

As I said in another thread - it is against the Catholic faith to provide contraceptive coverage, but it is not essential to any faith to have contraceptives covered.
 
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