Major Canadian paper demands gay-straight clubs in Catholic schools

[Holly3278]

A leading Canadian newspaper is demanding that the government of Ontario compel Catholic schools, which receive public funding, to allow gay-straight student clubs and alliances.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=12529

This is sickening. Gay straight clubs may sound semi-innocent when you first hear about them but they are not innocent at all. A gay straight club is an organization where straight people ally with liberal homosexuals who want to make homosexuality mainstream in all aspects of society. They want to make sure that “gay marriage” is available to all homosexuals everywhere and a lot of them don’t want others to speak out against their lifestyle. From what I understand, there are even reports of homosexual activists filing lawsuits against others for speaking out against the homosexual lifestyle. In other words, these clubs are nothing more than bad news and should not be allowed in a Catholic school. After all, such clubs advocate things that Catholic morality prohibits.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Have we not been through this before? when homosexual invated the Church and now we have all these scandals?

I agree with you, this is another strategy of the evil one to infiltrate the CC and eventually discredit her in every way possible, including forcing her to marry them. I hope our fathers of the Church stand firm and protect the Holy Church of God and its education system.

 

[Holly3278]

Have we not been through this before? when homosexual invated the Church and now we have all these scandals?

I agree with you, this is another strategy of the evil one to infiltrate the CC and eventually discredit her in every way possible, including forcing her to marry them. I hope our fathers of the Church stand firm and protect the Holy Church of God and its education system.

I also hope that our Church is protected. However, I am confused. What do you mean by “our fathers of the Church”? Are you talking about the Early Church Fathers or are you talking about the bishops, priests, and the Pope?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I also hope that our Church is protected. However, I am confused. What do you mean by “our fathers of the Church”? Are you talking about the Early Church Fathers or are you talking about the bishops, priests, and the Pope?

\

Yes, the Bishops and priests and the holy father. I call them our fathers.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Is this ‘major Canadian newspaper’ demanding Muslim schools include gay-straight clubs?

This is the problem when Catholic institutions rely on government funding. The same problem was seen with the Catholic adoption agencies which had to close or depart from the Church because from the states point of view the charity had no right to reject gay couples from being a choice for adopted children.

There is an element of religious conscience here, you can not force religious organizations to allow something which is against the core of their beliefs. Is a gay-straight club for discussing celibacy among gay students, and abstinence before marriage for the straight students? I don’t think so.

 

[Myqyl]

The Church teaches that the homosexual act is clearly not God’s plan, but we should look at the totality of Church teaching on this. How are the “straight” called by the Church to act and react to the homosexual? A quote from the Catechism :

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Government intrusion is another side of this coin, and I agree whole-heartedly that this is an intrusion of the worst kind. But let’s keep in mind that we are called to respect and love our gay sisters and brothers. Perhaps the Church should encourage such clubs, where Catholic students are taught that we must love the sinner. A club such as this might be the perfect forum for the Church to express it’s true teachings and discredit the false impression the the Church is an unaccepting homophobic organization.

My 2 cents

God bless

 

[Nimzovik]

Yes. CC need to rid themselves of Gov’t funding. Also we need to do collection plates for Civil Liberties for Catholics in terms of legal issues. We must take the bull by the horns!

Also it is not just Canada! We have the very same problem here in the USA. I do not understand Catholics that vote for a Pro - Choice president then wonder why we have our civil liberties taken away!

 

[JRKH]

Yes. CC need to rid themselves of Gov’t funding. Also we need to do collection plates for Civil Liberties for Catholics in terms of legal issues. We must take the bull by the horns!

Also it is not just Canada! We have the very same problem here in the USA. I do not understand Catholics that vote for a Pro - Choice president then wonder why we have our civil liberties taken away!

As much as I know the difficulties with the above, I agree. AND Catholic (and other Christian) parents need to take another bull by the horns to either suck it up and pay tuition, or see if something in the Law can be changed to allow a tax abatement for parents whose children do not attend public School…

So long as we permit the Government access to the purse strings, we leave ourselves open to such interference.

Peace
James

 

[Nimzovik]

Yes - the Voucher System may be the way to go. However the Teacher Unions will fight adamantly against it. Ergo we need to address them as well. The movie ‘Waiting for Superman’ may have brought up a few salient points in this regard.

We have the numbers for voting. We need to get our fellow Catholics to understand just what they are voting for. Are we to vote for our** wallet** or vote for our Catholic Faith? I for one am **thrilled **to see the church -much more so nowadays IMHO- speak from the pulpit almost daily about Pro- Life. Bravo!

 

[JRKH]

Yes - the Voucher system may be the way to go. However the Teacher Unions will fight adamantly against it. Ergo we need to address them as well.

Yes - I think the voucher system is a good option, but even then one must be careful…lest the government place onerous restrictions and requirements on the schools in order to be “Certified” for the vouchers…
As we know all too well, in the legal system nothing is permanent. Even if a voucher system were put in place this year, in five or ten years some new changes or requirements could be added, not unlike what is being seen in this Canadian Article.

What is needed, even more fundamentally, is court rulings that support the independent rights of Local School districts and Parochial/Private Schools to not violate their faith or the will of their own local populace.

Peace
James

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Church teaches that the homosexual act is clearly not God’s plan, but we should look at the totality of Church teaching on this. How are the “straight” called by the Church to act and react to the homosexual? A quote from the Catechism :

Government intrusion is another side of this coin, and I agree whole-heartedly that this is an intrusion of the worst kind. But let’s keep in mind that we are called to respect and love our gay sisters and brothers. Perhaps the Church should encourage such clubs, where Catholic students are taught that we must love the sinner. A club such as this might be the perfect forum for the Church to express it’s true teachings and discredit the false impression the the Church is an unaccepting homophobic organization.

My 2 cents

God bless

Are you serious? you dont think they already know what the CC teaches? this is more than just education. this is an attempt to destroy the Church. To discredit our Faith. this is has been done for awhile. We need to stop watering down the Faith to accomodate the infidels.

So you want to giving to their desires because you are afraid to be called homophobic? do you understand the power of language and how it can have control over people?

 

[JRKH]

The Church teaches that the homosexual act is clearly not God’s plan, but we should look at the totality of Church teaching on this. How are the “straight” called by the Church to act and react to the homosexual? A quote from the Catechism :

Indeed we are to hate the sin and love the sinner. We are to seek for all sinners that they understand, reform and thus attain heaven. This is true regardless of the sin.

Government intrusion is another side of this coin, and I agree whole-heartedly that this is an intrusion of the worst kind.

Yes it is. There can be no doubt but that the secular world and media offer sufficient opportunity for the “gay community” to get it’s message out. Equal rights should dictate that those institutions opposed to the acceptance of homosexual activity have the freedom to act on their conscience and not support it in any way.

But let’s keep in mind that we are called to respect and love our gay sisters and brothers. Perhaps the Church should encourage such clubs, where Catholic students are taught that we must love the sinner. A club such as this might be the perfect forum for the Church to express it’s true teachings and discredit the false impression the the Church is an unaccepting homophobic organization.

I would accept this idea in the sense that the Church should perhaps seek, through its own groups, to get the message out. Perhaps this could be the involvement of individual Catholics, even priests, deacons, catechists in such clubs, but not on a Catholic Campus and not “sponsored” by a Catholic School or anything else that might suggest that the Catholic Church condones or is neutral on the matter of homosexual acts.

Peace
James

 

[Melinda_Selmys]

The Catholic schools in Canada are pretty not-Catholic. Most of the serious Catholic families that I know up here either homeschool (that’s what I do), or put their kids into private Catholic schools. The introduction of gay-straight alliances won’t represent any kind of major shift…
This probably isn’t the place for a long essay on the development of the Catholic school system in Canada, but so far as I know there are a number of political and social concerns that make it fairly distinct from the parochial schools in the US (the influence of the English vs. French conflict, e.g.)
Really, though, I think that the basis of the problem is that parents have abdicated on their “primordial and inalienable” right and duty to educate their children. (CCC 2221) It’s really easy to turn your kids over to someone else who’ll keep them out of your hair, but the consequence is that you lose the ability to be responsible for their formation. Oddly enough, homosexuality is one of the perennial consequences of that (C.S. Lewis talks about the role that it played in the British public school system, e.g. I think in “Surprised By Joy,” and any even casual reading of the ancient Greek texts reveals the close association of pederasty and pedagogy in that society…)

 

[Myqyl]

I would accept this idea in the sense that the Church should perhaps seek, through its own groups, to get the message out. Perhaps this could be the involvement of individual Catholics, even priests, deacons, catechists in such clubs, but not on a Catholic Campus and not “sponsored” by a Catholic School or anything else that might suggest that the Catholic Church condones or is neutral on the matter of homosexual acts.

Peace
James

I agree with you James that we should not appear to be neutral on matters of homosexuality… But I disagree that we (the Church) should not sponsor these clubs. We SHOULD sponsor them and run them. And in them we should teach the truth about Catholic teaching on homosexuality rather that let the media tell the world “what Catholics say”. We should be saying it loud and clear. We should be living it.

It might be true that the way these clubs are run in public schools may be pushing a “gay agenda”… I don’t know, having never participated in one. But if the Church sponsors and runs the club, the CHURCH gets to say what the Church says instead of the distortion we get through the media. Such a club, run by the Church, would naturally start each meeting with a prayer. In my book, that alone is reason to do it! But also, likely for the first time, a young gay girl or boy would hear what we ACTUALLY teach and not what their friends SAY we teach!

We all too often whine and cry that our message is not getting out and that it is wildly distorted when it does get out… Well, to use the plain and simple language of the teens we are discussing ~ “Well, DUH!” ~ … It seems that we are so afraid of appearing to embrace the sin that we leave the sinner to rot… Let’s live our faith, even when it’s outside our comfort zone.

My third and fourth cent

God bless

 

[Myqyl]

Are you serious? you don’t think they already know what the CC teaches? this is more than just education. this is an attempt to destroy the Church. To discredit our Faith. this is has been done for awhile. We need to stop watering down the Faith to accommodate the infidels.

So you want to giving to their desires because you are afraid to be called homophobic? do you understand the power of language and how it can have control over people?

Yes I am serious. I don’t have to think about if they know what we teach, I know they don’t… They believe the Church is “against” homosexuals… They believe we “oppress” them and “condemn” them. This is what I’ve been told by several gays. You should see the absolute shock on their faces when I pull out the Catechism and show them the truth of what we believe. The usual response is “that doesn’t sound like anything I’ve ever heard from a Catholic…” That’s the saddest part. We don’t live it, they don’t see it and the media is allowed to set our position for us.

I agree that we need to stop “watering down our faith”, but instead of “to accommodate the infidels” I think we need to stop watering it down for the faithful that don’t want to embrace the WHOLE teachings of the Church…

God bless

 

[wisdomseeker]

I agree with you James that we should not appear to be neutral on matters of homosexuality… But I disagree that we (the Church) should not sponsor these clubs. We SHOULD sponsor them and run them. And in them we should teach the truth about Catholic teaching on homosexuality rather that let the media tell the world “what Catholics say”. We should be saying it loud and clear. We should be living it.

It might be true that the way these clubs are run in public schools may be pushing a “gay agenda”… I don’t know, having never participated in one. But if the Church sponsors and runs the club, the CHURCH gets to say what the Church says instead of the distortion we get through the media. Such a club, run by the Church, would naturally start each meeting with a prayer. In my book, that alone is reason to do it! But also, likely for the first time, a young gay girl or boy would hear what we ACTUALLY teach and not what their friends SAY we teach!

We all too often whine and cry that our message is not getting out and that it is wildly distorted when it does get out… Well, to use the plain and simple language of the teens we are discussing ~ “Well, DUH!” ~ … It seems that we are so afraid of appearing to embrace the sin that we leave the sinner to rot… Let’s live our faith, even when it’s outside our comfort zone.

My third and fourth cent

God bless

I think you live in a fantasy world. Have you not heard about gay Mass and how gays are taking over some Catholic Churches and still living their life styles?

Let me tell you, we dont have many courageous people in teh Church to speak up and teach what the Church teaches. this is a dangerous thing. teh next thing, we would find ourselves in a big mess with homosexuals claiming all kinds of rights in teh Church. Dont understimate the power of evil. Specially now and days where the Spirituality of Catholics are the lowest.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes I am serious. I don’t have to think about if they know what we teach, I know they don’t… They believe the Church is “against” homosexuals… They believe we “oppress” them and “condemn” them. This is what I’ve been told by several gays. You should see the absolute shock on their faces when I pull out the Catechism and show them the truth of what we believe. The usual response is “that doesn’t sound like anything I’ve ever heard from a Catholic…” That’s the saddest part. We don’t live it, they don’t see it and the media is allowed to set our position for us.

I agree that we need to stop “watering down our faith”, but instead of “to accommodate the infidels” I think we need to stop watering it down for the faithful that don’t want to embrace the WHOLE teachings of the Church…

God bless

So, did you convert any of them after they found out from you? have they stopped their life style since?

 

[Dale_M]

Is this ‘major Canadian newspaper’ demanding Muslim schools include gay-straight clubs?

Probably not, but I don’t think that Muslim schools in Ontario are publicly funded.

I’m am not familiar with the controversy, but from the editorial in question it seems that the Catholic schools have been opposed to the creation of such clubs. However, a proposed law would require that the clubs be allowed. The editorial’s beef is that the name of the new clubs will not be “Gay-Straight Alliance” (or something similar) but be called “Equity Clubs.” The editorial argues that this name hides the gay identity as if it is something shameful.

Here is a link to the editorial
theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/catholic-schools-dont-ask-dont-tell-policy-bad-for-gay-students/article2255606/

This is the problem when Catholic institutions rely on government funding. The same problem was seen with the Catholic adoption agencies which had to close or depart from the Church because from the states point of view the charity had no right to reject gay couples from being a choice for adopted children.

I agree. This is one more example why a separation of Church and State is a good idea. It protects religion from government interference.

 

[Melinda_Selmys]

So, did you convert any of them after they found out from you? have they stopped their life style since?

Wisdomseeker,

I myself have converted gays and lesbians using Myqyl’s approach, and it was certainly a part of my own decision to give up living as a homosexual. I’ll admit, however, that it doesn’t work most of the time.
I’m wondering if you’ve had more success? If so, I’d really like to what methods you’ve used so that I can modify my own approach.

 

[Myqyl]

So, did you convert any of them after they found out from you? have they stopped their life style since?

Convert them? That was never my intent… Stopped their life style? I still sin, so am I to condemn them for faults I have? Is their sin greater than our own?

What I did do is open their eyes to the fact that the Catholic Church instructs it’s members to defend them, love them and pray for them.

If you are without sin, then by all means, please continue casting stones… I will live as best I can the teachings of the Church by meeting all persons, regardless of anything, with love, compassion and understanding.

I’ll be praying for you WisdomSeeker

God bless