Major scandal; Now proven that the entire global warming threat is based on fabricated data

[kimmielittle]

IMHO - This seems the response of someone only looking to have a fight, no?
To read between the lines - ‘implying’ - is open to one’s own read between the line - we can disagree without being disagreeable right?

For example to say that someone isn’t qualified could also be offensive - even if that wasn’t your intent:shrug:

Is she/ he qualified to know that I’m not seeking truth?

 

[rinkevichjm]

I can see it coming now all long term weather and climate forecasting models will have to have their data and equation validated and approved by a reputable set of engineers and scientists who will provide various test sets and conditions to verifiy if the output is right. The climate scientists have been proven to have been doing one thing they shouldn’t have: practicing science and engineering as if they were arts and not scientific and technological demonstrations. Even worse it looks like they pulled strings with their evaluators to hide this.

 

[kimmielittle]

kimmielittle;6066530:

Hiyas
More are under investigation

Isn’t this the same group that are referenced in the OP being investigated?

Everyone on-site who has an email account received this letter. That’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 8000 people.

DOE-SR = Department of Energy Savannah River
SRNS = Savannah River Nuclear Solutions
SRR = Savannah River Remediation

It concerns East Anglia In England, and/or climate change science, yes. However, it seems they are now trying to find out how deep within the USA this goes.

PS This was verified

 

[4elise]

I have asked many times

Prove AGCC Man-made Global Warming ] is responsible for Climate Change
Prove CO2 causes this Climate Change
Prove Cap-and-Trade Reverses Climate Change
Prove Carbon Credits decrease CO2 - Reverses Climate Change and is even, environmentally sound.

If the foundation is unsound…the whole house falls

The other “cures” are things like
Contraceptives
Abortions

I have actually seen nothing presented that has a reverence for ALL life but we are to believe these ‘cures’ are.

abort now so future generations can live

Now, one could find this offensive if one was to think that you are saying that to agree with AGW - therefore one believes the ‘cures’ are contraception and abortion -

I am sure you are just trying to ‘make your point’ - that you disagree with the other ways recommended to address the issue: co2 reduction / cap and trade -

I know that one of the issues in all the posting is that people doubt the sources posted by those who disagree with them, that is why I really doubt that this method of communication (web forums) has any impact on moving people from their current position - people believe what they believe - and I was really trying to take a break from the forums - but for example - this Union of Concerned Scientists link IMHO has the information that I find to be substantiated by other sources (no doubt you will disagree)

ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/global-warming-faq.html

Blessings,

 

[StAnastasia]

One step at a time! Come on over to the Catholic Vegetarians and Vegans group for some recipes!
Just FYI (sorry off topic:blush I have a 30 year old son who isn’t too happy that his mom doesn’t cook the way she used to! He even made a turdunken for his in-laws last Thanksgiving!

4Elise, I can’t go that far yet. I like honey and eggs too much, and I wear wool; Vegans oppose all of these. But I can look on and wish you well!

 

[4elise]

4elise;6066612:

It concerns East Anglia In England, and/or climate change science, yes. However, it seems they are now trying to find out how deep within the USA this goes.

PS This was verified

I for one am glad they are investigating this - the key point here is that they are investigating this - that is what the article was about – IMHO it is inflammatory to assume that because there is an investigation wrong doing will be found -

And if they find no connection will you be equally satisfied?

 

[4elise]

4Elise, I can’t go that far yet. I like honey and eggs too much, and I wear wool; Vegans oppose all of these. But I can look on and wish you well!

Any reduction helps IMHO goveg.com/environment-globalWarming.asp

 

[kimmielittle]

Now, one could find this offensive if one was to think that you are saying that to agree with AGW - therefore one believes the ‘cures’ are contraception and abortion -

I am sure you are just trying to ‘make your point’ - that you disagree with the other ways recommended to address the issue: co2 reduction / cap and trade -

I know that one of the issues in all the posting is that people doubt the sources posted by those who disagree with them, that is why I really doubt that this method of communication (web forums) has any impact on moving people from their current position - people believe what they believe - and I was really trying to take a break from the forums - but for example - this Union of Concerned Scientists link IMHO has the information that I find to be substantiated by other sources (no doubt you will disagree)

ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/global-warming-faq.html

Blessings,

Hiyas

therefore one believes the ‘cures’ are contraception and abortion -

Have you seen what has been proposed?
Contraceptives and abortions are high on the list at COP15

As to your link…if it’s based on IPCC who got their data from CRU…

 

[kimmielittle]

kimmielittle;6066629:

I for one am glad they are investigating this - the key point here is that they are investigating this - that is what the article was about – IMHO it is inflammatory to assume that because there is an investigation wrong doing will be found -

And if they find no connection will you be equally satisfied?

ABSOLUTELY

But it won’t answer anything but the depth of CRU scientists involvement. It doesn’t settle unsettled science.

 

[kimmielittle]

I can see it coming now all long term weather and climate forecasting models will have to have their data and equation validated and approved by a reputable set of engineers and scientists who will provide various test sets and conditions to verifiy if the output is right. The climate scientists have been proven to have been doing one thing they shouldn’t have: practicing science and engineering as if they were arts and not scientific and technological demonstrations. Even worse it looks like they pulled strings with their evaluators to hide this.

I can not believe this wasn’t done at the start:shrug:

 

[4elise]

Hiyas

Have you seen what has been proposed?
Contraceptives and abortions are high on the list at COP15

I am sure that there are some who would recommend these solutions - can you show me something that says that any official proposal from COP15 is including these?

As to your link…if it’s based on IPCC who got their data from CRU…

The data used by the IPCC (and any subsequent source) is not exclusively from the EA - and while the OP seems to state that this scandal ‘proves’ AGW a vast conspiracy - the actual facts are being - IMHO - overstated by those who already want to believe this isn’t real - AND this goes to the point I was trying to make (and why I was taking a forum break) I do not believe anyone every is moved in discussions on internet forums - people agree with those they agree with, post links to that which supports their position, disagree with the ‘other side’ and find fault with any link / source that is posted that does NOT support their position —

God bless us all - I believe we are all trying to do our best - I just try to find a way to live my faith - and guess we are all doing this:shrug: frustrating though isn’t it…

 

[kimmielittle]

I am sure that there are some who would recommend these solutions - can you show me something that says that any official proposal from COP15 is including these?

I will find for you tomorrow

The data used by the IPCC (and any subsequent source) is not exclusively from the EA - and while the OP seems to state that this scandal ‘proves’ AGW a vast conspiracy - the actual facts are being - IMHO - overstated by those who already want to believe this isn’t real - AND this goes to the point I was trying to make (and why I was taking a forum break) I do not believe anyone every is moved in discussions on internet forums - people agree with those they agree with, post links to that which supports their position, disagree with the ‘other side’ and find fault with any link / source that is posted that does NOT support their position —

God bless us all - I believe we are all trying to do our best - I just try to find a way to live my faith - and guess we are all doing this:shrug: frustrating though isn’t it…

Personally, I admire you.

I wish people to find my environmental attempts as admirable.

 

[4elise]

I will find for you tomorrow

Personally, I admire you.

I wish people to find my environmental attempts as admirable.

Thank you kimmilittle - I think we can all do better on these forums (it is after all CATHOLIC Answers Forum) - we can try to assume good will on the part of all who post here - we may disagree, but I believe we must try to respond to each other respectfully - - and even (maybe especially) if we think someone is being disingenuous, we have to try not to respond in kind, right? We can throw water on the fire, not fuel.

Blessings!

 

[4elise]

17/12/2009 15.52.49

oecumene.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=342960
Pope: “Courage and Sacrifice Necessary for Climate Change Pact”

(17 Dec 09 - RV) On Thursday Pope Benedict XVI received a group of ambassadors from Africa, Asia and Northern Europe who presented the Holy Father with their letters of credence…

The new ambassadors to the Holy See come from Uganda, Sudan, Kenya, Kazakhstan and Bangladesh, Denmark, Finland and Latvia.

Pope Benedict XVI gave each of them a personal message for their nation and then addressed them as a group in French. For the second time this week, following on from his message for the World Day for Peace published Tuesday, the Holy Father revealed his overriding concern for the protection of the environment.

Pope Benedict again repeated the need to restore a proper relationship between man and creation and for a conversion to a human ecology. He said “environmental responsibility can not be separated from” the need to end the “scandal of poverty and hunger”, because the continued degradation of the environment is a direct threat to human survival”, and as a consequence to peace.

He continued that “more determined commitments must be made both individually and politically”, above all through “binding international agreements that are effective and fair to all”.

The Popes comments come as over 300 world leaders descend on the Danish city of Copenhagen for the final stages of the United Nations Climate Change Conference, in an attempt to reach consensus on a binding agreement for emissions targets.

In his message to the new ambassador from Denmark, Pope Benedict said: “while some consensus can undoubtedly be reached” through the elaboration of shared aspirations, policies and targets, “fundamental change – individual or collective – requires conversion of heart”.

For this reason we need “courage and sacrifice, fruits of an ethical awakening, enable us to envisage a better world”, because when the “moral tenor of society” declines the “challenges facing today’s leaders can only increase”.

Bangladesh is one of the nations worst hit by climate change and wrought by poverty that undermines social stability. In his address to Bangladesh’s new ambassador, Pope Benedict praised the initiatives taken by the government to alleviate poverty through micro-financing small businesses and greater access to education, a field that the nation’s tiny Catholic minority are active in. But he also noted the scourge of intimidation and violence, present in Bangladeshi society which he writes “erode the very basis of social harmony and must be decried as offensive to human life and freedom”. In his general discourse Pope Benedict reflected on the role religions play in promoting, society, the environment and peace.

Pope Benedict said it is true that in history, religions have often been a source of conflict. But it is also true that religion lived by its very essence was and is a force for reconciliation and peace, because for “people of faith” and “good will, the resolution of human conflict”, such as the delicate coexistence of different religions “may be transformed into a human coexistence” which has its “origin and dynamism in God”. This coexistence in respect of the nature of things is called peace.
Peace was at the heart of the Pope’s message to Sudan. In it he writes that : “the Holy See was profoundly gratified at the signing of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement four years ago which ended a tragic period of immense suffering, loss of life and destruction. The expectations generated by this agreement, contracted by important parties within the country and with the support of the international community, must be kept alive”.

In this context, continued the Pope “it must be noted that the people of Darfur continue to suffer greatly. Negotiated agreements between armed groups have been slow and faltering and are in urgent need of support from all sides. Respect for civilian populations and their basic human rights, and responsibilities in relation to national and regional stability clearly require renewed attempts to seek lasting agreements”.

Pope Benedict’s parting words to the ambassadors from the 8 nations was that its time for a global restructuring, both temporal and spiritual, which will allow a “fresh start toward the universal peace that God wants”.

 

[4elise]

ZE09121708 - 2009-12-17
Permalink: zenit.org/article-27875?l=english
Pope Urges Useful and Just Climate Accord

Says Key to Peace Is Putting Person at Center of Policies

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 17, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI today urged political leaders to advance binding international accords to protect the environment.

The Pope made this exhortation in a French-language address to eight new ambassadors to the Holy See, from Denmark, Uganda, Sudan, Kenya, Kazakhstan, Bangladesh, Finland and Latvia. The U.N. conference on climate change, under way in Copenhagen, is set to conclude Friday.

“I heartily encourage the political authorities of your respective countries and of the family of nations, not only to strengthen their activities in favor of protecting the environment, but also – given that the problem can only be confronted at the particular level in each country – to be a force for proposals and incentives, so as to reach binding international accords that are useful and just for everyone.”

“As much in the individual realm as in the political one, it is now necessary to take up more decided commitments and ones that are shared more widely, in that which pertains to creation,” he contended. “People cannot exclude themselves from [responsibility for creation], nor defer it to coming generations.”

The Bishop of Rome also pointed to the connection between creation and world hunger.

He cautioned that the deterioration of the environment “is a direct threat for the survival of man and for his proper development; and it can even directly threaten peace between people and populations.”

Reckless consuming

The Pope recalled that “the good of man is not found in ever more reckless consumption nor in the limitless accumulation of things – consumption and accumulation that are reserved to a small number and proposed as models for the masses.”

Instead, Benedict XVI proposed, religions are a source of peace.

Religions emphasize the “primacy of the person and the spirit,” he said, though the state as well has this duty.

The Pope continued by telling the ambassadors that nations should encourage the person in his spiritual quest.

“We all know that peace needs political and economic, cultural and spiritual conditions to establish itself,” he affirmed. “Peaceful coexistence among different religious traditions within each nation is sometimes difficult.”

“More than a political problem, this coexistence is also an internal problem,” he continued.

In God’s eyes

The key to the solution, the Holy Father proposed, is recognizing God as the creator of man: “of every man, regardless of his religion, social condition or political opinions.”

And by recognizing this, he said, “every one will respect the other in his uniqueness and difference.”

“Before God there is no category or hierarchy of persons, inferior or superior, dominant or protected,” the Pontiff declared. “There is nothing for Him more than the person he has created out of love and who He wants to see live, in his family and in society, in fraternal harmony.”

“For the person of faith or of good will, the resolution of human conflicts, like the fragile co-existence of different religions, can transform itself in human coexistence in an order full of goodness and wisdom that has its origin and dynamism in God,” he continued. “This coexistence in the respect for the nature of things and the inherent wisdom that comes from God …] is called peace.”

In his place

The Pope acknowledged that it is sometimes difficult in the political and economic world to give primacy of place to the person.

Even more challenging is admitting “the importance and the necessity of religion,” he said, and giving “religion its true nature and space in the public sphere.”

But, the Holy Father concluded, “peace – which is so desired – will not be reached in any way other than with the joint action of individuals, who discover their true nature in God, and of the leaders of civil and religious societies who – with respect for the dignity and the faith of each one – know how to recognize and give to religion its noble and authentic function of completing and perfecting the human person.”

 

[sidbrown]

Gee, every page I went to came back with an error saying that it doesn’t exist.

Try these:
guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/mar/16/glaciers.climatechange
newscientist.com/article/dn13519
sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080317154235.htm
guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/dec/10/poznan-brazil-climate-change-environment
metro.co.uk/news/403107-himalayan-glaciers-melting-away

 

[kimmielittle]

Thank you kimmilittle - I think we can all do better on these forums (it is after all CATHOLIC Answers Forum) - we can try to assume good will on the part of all who post here - we may disagree, but I believe we must try to respond to each other respectfully - - and even (maybe especially) if we think someone is being disingenuous, we have to try not to respond in kind, right? We can throw water on the fire, not fuel.

Blessings!

Hiyas

United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) is the voice at IPCC. A partner with UN and World Bank

Their associations from their pages.

UNFPA supports programmes to improve maternal health in about 90 countries through technical and financial assistance for reproductive health services including family planning, advocacy for health reforms and upgrading of health facilities, improving and expanding training of midwives and doctors, mobilizing communities and promoting women’s rights. Our work is undertaken in close partnership with national governments, sister United Nations agencies, and the World Bank.

Why is the World Bank in the business of Population Control?

unitedfamiliesinternational.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/united-nations-population-fund-uses-climate-change-to-promote-abortion/

Their report is here.
unfpa.org/swp/2009/en/pdf/EN_SOWP09.pdf

ALL sounds good until you add in forced sterilizations as in China.

Linked already to USA funds

On Sunday, December 14, the omnibus bill, which had already been approved by the House, passed the Senate by a wide margin, funding a wide variety of federal government initiatives and projects. ** Among the funds approved were $648.5 million for “international family planning” (including abortion and contraception) and $55 million for the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), which has been exposed as having collaborated with China’s destructive and coercive “one child policy”. With President Barack Obama’s January 2009 reversal of the Mexico City Policy, federal funds are again permitted to be funneled toward groups that perform and promote abortion worldwide–permission that had been denied by the previous Bush administration. The bill is expected to be signed by President Obama soon.**

christiannewswire.com/news/9357212491.html

Why are we in the USA funding “International family planning - abortion”?

Could it be…Because China and others now are fighting any COP15 deal that has population control…and mandates by United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA)??

IMHO The reverence of life that United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) has… can not be understood as anything - than promoting “abortion now, for future generations to enjoy life”.

 

[paully]

Paully, congratulations on sticking things out – that shows courage and strength of character! It’s not a matter of “not wanting to help”; I’m not equipped on short notice to weigh in on this matter from a scientific perspective. Keep up your research on all the angles of this problem.

StAnastasia

Sounds to me like you just won’t even look at the websites!!! Now answer that!!! You seem equipped to make a lot of statements that suit your purposes. Good luck. Like I said, I guess that I will seek the truth be realizing you just can’t read what you disagree with. That’s hardly scientific or a good example to those on the board seeking the “truth”.

 

[Don_L]

Personally, like Christ the Apostles, I enjoy meat, though I’m waiting for some consistency from the AGW, animal rights, and no meat crowd.

When I see them dare to demand that all pets (billions or trillions?of cats and dogs included) that cause much of the greenhouse gasses, and serve little food function, be euthanised, they’ll have more credibility. They won’t, because they’d lose their support instantly.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Last warning.
Post charitibly or the thread will be closed.