Make it a better church

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I’m curious what it is you’re looking for on a Catholic web site. If we knew, perhaps we could help you find it.
 
kristaok said:
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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James 2:19-24
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You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
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Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
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Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
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You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
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Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
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See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
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Faith in Jesus is not sufficient in and of itself. It could not be spelled out more clearly.

I return, however, to the question of Baptism.

John 3:5. The very words of Jesus Christ:
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
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1 Peter 3:21
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In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison,*
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who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
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This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God* for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
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The Bible makes it explicitly clear that baptism is necessary for salvation. However, many churches in your supposed spiritual body of Christ reject baptism as being necessary for salvation.

This is not some minor issue you can brush off as unimportant. Jesus Christ Himself says that we need to be baptized to be saved. Either He was telling the truth, or He wasn’t. If your position is true, then those churches which ignore Christ’s words and reject baptism are equal to those which follow Christ’s words and believe it to be necessary. If the sole measure of a church’s validity is how well they adhere to Christ’s teachings, or even the Protestant notion of how well they follow the Bible, then there is empirical justification for rejecting those faiths which reject baptism, meaning that the body of Christ in the Protestant churches is not unified, but is divided based on this essential belief.

As I said above, this is just one of many such examples of why a “spiritual body of Christ in the various churches” is irrational and not in keeping with the Bible, history, or Christian tradition.
 
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anikins said:
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hymin:
Was it Pope Benedict XVI who said, I would rather see a praying church than a doing church?
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Seems counter to faith + works.
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Only if you believe the two things to be essentially divided. From the Catholic perspective, an increase in prayer invariably leads to an increase in works because it is through works that we express our love for God to others, and it is through prayer and works that this love grows within us.

A work-less Church that is praying will become a work-ful Church. A working Church that is not praying will not necessarily be lead to prayer through their works.
 
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Elf01 said:
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TC3033:
Just this week the priest called out that the Parish make sure they understand that us non-Catholics are not to be viewed as equals and called us flawed
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What was the exact quote?
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As best I can remember:

It was along the lines of: Remembering not to believe that all denominations are equal because that couldn’t be further from the truth, and to do some research yourself to learn what they really teach not just in viewing the actions of their flawed members.
 
I guess that’s up to you. In the context of the opinion being discussed on being more welcoming to other Christians, I find it unwelcoming to go to church to be told that I’m a 2nd class Christian. If that’s what you believe, that’s fine. I’m of the opinion that I’m going to attend Mass a little less with my family now, since it has been pointed out that I’m not really welcome there as less of a Christian and don’t really feel like going to church to hear that. We’ve had issues already with how we’re going to take on teaching our children the faith, if this is how Dad is going to be spoken about at church.
 
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kristaok said:
Don’t feel bad, I considered going to mass myself but I think I’ll pass. I don’t like being called unsaved when I know that I’ve been saved my whole life.

God loves you and your family - God bless you.
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No one can have assurance of their salvation.

If St. Paul himself cannot be assured of his salvation, then how can you think that simply saying some prayer is good enough.

St. Paul calls us to work out our salvation with “fear and trembling.”(Phil 2:12) Do those sound like the words of someone who believes in OSAS? The parable of the sower and the seeds also reveals that it is possible to be a believer, but later fall away and be burned. Repeatedly, the NT warns us that we must continue to work on our salvation our whole lives, and that no one is assured of salvation until they have obtained it at their judgment.

Your belief that you are saved is a folly, and that is part of why we cannot consider Protestant ideologies to be on equal footing with Catholic theology. They are, simply put, unBiblical.
 
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TC3033 said:
I guess that’s up to you. In the context of the opinion being discussed on being more welcoming to other Christians, I find it unwelcoming to go to church to be told that I’m a 2nd class Christian. If that’s what you believe, that’s fine. I’m of the opinion that I’m going to attend Mass a little less with my family now, since it has been pointed out that I’m not really welcome there as less of a Christian and don’t really feel like going to church to hear that. . . .
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I think you are maybe being a little too sensitive about what was said. Let’s look at the words as best as you can remember them:
“Remembering not to believe that all denominations are equal because that couldn’t be further from the truth, and to do some research yourself to learn what they really teach not just in viewing the actions of their flawed members.”

As for the first part, it is not “welcoming” to lie to someone, don’t you agree? We are Catholic because we know that “all denominations are” in fact NOT equal. This was my initial point. If I believed that they were, why would I, why would anybody be Catholic? Should you really in all fairness expect the priest to say anything else?
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Yes and no. I understand that’s the belief, but I find it strange for the Parish to tell us how “welcome” we are and call us “brothers” but then point out we’re not on equal footing. Strange to me.
Let’s look at the second part: "do some research yourself to learn what they [not sure who the “they” is here] really teach.

Let’s leave the issue of who the “they” is aside for minute. Do you have a problem with the priest saying that we should do some research to see what a particular denomination really teaches? I sure don’t. I would hope you don’t because I don’t think any reasonable person would.
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No problem with that, that’s basically the reason I’m here.
Now let’s take a look at the last part, and here we need to come back to who the “they” is: “not just viewing the actions of their flawed members”

Flawed members part, snipping to fit quotes.
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I believe that he was calling us flawed individuals for not being Catholic. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been talked to or treated as such. Kinda getting used to it.
That isn’t calling anyone “second class”, it is a call to truth, which is just about the most welcoming, loving thing I can think of .
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In the context you’ve laid out, and with your beliefs…maybe not. With having been around this Parish for ~14 years now, and with what I’ve seen (an experienced) I’m just throwing it on the list of times Non-Catholics have been singled out here.
 
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If he was calling you “flawed” for not being Catholic, shame on him. I hope that isn’t what he meant. Obviously I wasn’t there and don’t have the history with this priest or parish that you do. If what you say is in fact true, maybe suggest to your wife that she find another Catholic church nearby with a different priest. Rest assured that if your view of this priest’s comments are accurate, it does not reflect our Church as a whole.
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We’ve only got two to choose from (this one and another country one 10 min outside of town). We’ve left each one once… The one in town because they wouldn’t marry us (because I’m not Catholic) and the one out of town because I got the asterisk treatment out there…(on top of other stuff)
 
kristaok said:
I’m real sorry to hear that… something similar happened to me, we ended up having to get married at the court house.
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Ya, since the Parish in town wouldn’t do it we went to my wife’s Parish in the country. Reluctantly they agreed to do it. What’s funny is the Sister that did our marriage classes loved me. It was refreshing to her to have someone in class that could have an intelligent theological discussion and challenge her a little bit.
 
Thank-you, I’m very much in an “it is what it is” mode right now. Having Religious Ed in town is too easy, we just can’t make another move now.
 
“Obedience to God is a freedom because it is the truth, it is the reference that comes before all the other human needs…However this implies that we truly know God and that we truly wish to obey him. God is not a pretext for one’s personal will, but is really the One who calls and invites us, if necessary, even to martyrdom. Therefore, in measuring up to this word that ushers in a new history of freedom in the world, let us pray above all to know God, to know God humbly and truly, and in knowing God, to learn true obedience which is the root of human freedom.” (Pope Benedict XVI, Homily, April 15 2010)
 
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Kristaok, I read what you wrote. What you are saying is I only desire my Father, and I do not want to accept my mother - I want to put all my trust in you Father, and forget you mother (the Catholic Church). Well if you knew God, you would fear to put yourself in that standpoint.

Be reasonable. Consider the early Church and what they believed when we were all one body. Start with this aspect of what they believed and also what the Catechism (CCC 181) presents for our assent of faith today:

"‘Believing’ is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. “No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother” (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519)
 
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I didn’t realize that a church could refuse marriage if one of the couple was non-Catholic.
 
kristaok said:
That’s not what I’m referring to or what I meant, I mean they should be more accepting of other Christians.
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Well they accepted my non-Catholic baptism and marriage and accepted me with open arms. 😉

Okay, I know that’s probably not what you meant. The Church does accept other Christians; you rarely hear a Catholic say other Christians aren’t Christian, but I can’t say the same of other groups of Christians with regard to Catholics. I don’t know in what sense you mean the Church should be more accepting. In all things that our separated brethren teach that are truth, we accept those teachings, but we won’t accept a lessor truth just to make people feel more comfortable.
 
Augustine says (Confess. x, 23) that happiness is joy in truth. (STh I-II, q. 4, a. 1, sc.)

edit: reading the Latin I think it could be better understood as joy about the truth
 
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kristaok said:
Who said I was OSAS? Because I’m not but I do know that if I continue to serve God I am / will be saved.
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My mistake, and I apologize. It’s just that generally when people state that they are assured of their salvation, they are generally speaking in the OSAS sense.
 
Usige said:
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kristaok:
That’s not what I’m referring to or what I meant, I mean they should be more accepting of other Christians.
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Well they accepted my non-Catholic baptism and marriage and accepted me with open arms. 😉

Okay, I know that’s probably not what you meant. The Church does accept other Christians; you rarely hear a Catholic say other Christians aren’t Christian, but I can’t say the same of other groups of Christians with regard to Catholics. I don’t know in what sense you mean the Church should be more accepting. In all things that our separated brethren teach that are truth, we accept those teachings, but we won’t accept a lessor truth just to make people feel more comfortable.
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You’re correct there, we are viewed as partial Christians (comes directly out of the Family Faith Formation book).

You don’t have to accept anything to make people feel more comfortable/welcome. I’ve seen and been through a lot with my family at two different Parishes now. We’ve jumped back and forth a couple times due to the way I was treated and made known I’m not welcome.

But it is what it is…I think that there are some progressive Parishes that really don’t care what creed you are, and some that really…really do. We just happen to live in an area where the only two my wife and kids have to chose from really…really do care and to them we (NC’s) may as well not be in the room.
 
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I don’t know if this sounds weird but I feel like I can’t contribute to the Church at all, but I am trying to contribute to society by hopefully being in the mental health field once I’m fully done with my studies. God knows that society is going downhill atm
 
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