Makeup and vanity?

[GodIsGracious]

It must be tiresome to be Mary… she is probably shaking her head at all those who take her hostage to their own oppinions and tastes…

I sort of chuckled when I read this. I never thought about things this way in how people use Mary. I guess when we say we hold her up to be an example of how we should be, people literally do. Like, in everything.

Hrm. I wonder if Mary had 2 cats. The bible does not specifically state that Mary had 2 cats so there is no biblical proof that I should have 2 cats. Since I have 2 cats. Does this mean I am not being like Mary?

I think Mary is not a petty person.
Anyhow… if some people think it’s bad to want to attract the admiration from the other sex, I dont quite understand that.
Yes, I also wear make-up in order to look pretty when the knight in shining armor shows up. If I am blessed to become a wife I will have even more enjoyment trying to look really pretty for him, and … wooo… maybe I’ll even buy lingeri

Agreed. I think it is also natural to want to please our spouses. Shouldn’t we want to please our spouses? And they please us?

 

[Marfran]

Craisin, a little bit of makeup, such as you describe, is consistent with what is considered good grooming. To wear makeup like this is to show respect for yourself and others. To omit it might indicate a carelessness about your appearance that would cause others to draw negative conclusions about you, which would be detrimental to you in the workplace and in your personal apostolate.

Betsy

Totally agree!!! Make-up is a part of good grooming. And of course it can be overdone, and in excess, and in bad taste–just as everything else. Good grooming applies to both sexes. Keep yourself clean, hair washed, etc. Even animals and birds attend to their appearance–groom their fur and feathers. Different cultures have different clothing styles and matters of dress. Make-up is a form of clothing and dress–and of course it can be gaudy and out-of-place too.

 

[Marfran]

It must be tiresome to be Mary… she is probably shaking her head at all those who take her hostage to their own oppinions and tastes…
I think Mary is not a petty person.
Anyhow… if some people think it’s bad to want to attract the admiration from the other sex, I dont quite understand that.
Yes, I also wear make-up in order to look pretty when the knight in shining armor shows up. If I am blessed to become a wife I will have even more enjoyment trying to look really pretty for him, and … wooo… maybe I’ll even buy lingeri

You *might buy *lingerie??? Does that mean that you go *au natural *now? There’s another thread!!! Or maybe there is one already!

Did anyone see the thread about women and pants? Some people said that women shouldn’t wear pants because they were masculine items of clothing, and that women who wear pants are guilty of crossdressing.

So what kind of underwear are we supposed to wear? Feminine lingerie??? Unfeminine lingerie? (Because feminine is too sexy? Or would we be cross-dressing?) What about au natural???

 

[GodIsGracious]

You *might buy *lingerie??? Does that mean that you go *au natural *now? There’s another thread!!! Or maybe there is one already!

Did anyone see the thread about women and pants? Some people said that women shouldn’t wear pants because they were masculine items of clothing, and that women who wear pants are guilty of crossdressing.

So what kind of underwear are we supposed to wear? Feminine lingerie??? Unfeminine lingerie? (Becauses feminine is too sexy? Or would we be cross-dressing?) What about au natural???

[bold emphasis mine]

I started to read that thread but left. It’s ridiculous. Please.

There are people who go to such extremes on whether they’re being pious in what they wear (clothes, make up hair) that, IMO, it really distracts them from simply being with God. It can then become an obsession, which is no less than obsessing from alcohol.

 

[Marfran]

[bold emphasis mine]

I started to read that thread but left. It’s ridiculous. Please.

There are people who go to such extremes on whether they’re being pious in what they wear (clothes, make up hair) that, IMO, it really distracts them from simply being with God. It can then become an obsession, which is no less than obsessing from alcohol.

It **was **so ridiculous!!! Isn’t this make-up thing the same thing? Good taste, good grooming, versus extreme, in poor taste and excess… And then people here are saying it’s sinful etc.

 

[GraceDK]

I sort of chuckled when I read this. I never thought about things this way in how people use Mary. I guess when we say we hold her up to be an example of how we should be, people literally do. Like, in everything.

No one imitates Mary in everything.
What we know about Mariam of Nazareth is very limited. the most important thing conveyed to us is her attitude: humility, belief and following Jesus.

I am not Mary: I am someone else.
I dont mind at all that we try to imitate Jesus, or Mary or another saint… however, we are not to assume something about how they think and beat someone over the head with it.
I remember still how ridiculous it became when someone said we as women should imitate Mary’s attire. I then said I assumed he wore the attire that Jesus wore, full beard and tunic, and that I’d love to see a pic.
Needless to say there could be no pic. His rules were his taste, and he used his taste to dictate the clothes of others.

 

[Marfran]

I remember still how ridiculous it became when someone said we as women should imitate Mary’s attire. I then said I assumed he wore the attire that Jesus wore, full beard and tunic, and that I’d love to see a pic.
Needless to say there could be no pic. His rules were his taste, and he used his taste to dictate the clothes of others.

Right on!!!

 

[LilyM]

It must be tiresome to be Mary… she is probably shaking her head at all those who take her hostage to their own oppinions and tastes…
I think Mary is not a petty person.

I’d imagine she probably is shaking her head … and probably isn’t a petty person. At least we can try to be like her in THAT regard!

 

[GodIsGracious]

No one imitates Mary in everything.
What we know about Mariam of Nazareth is very limited. the most important thing conveyed to us is her attitude: humility, belief and following Jesus.

I am not Mary: I am someone else.
I dont mind at all that we try to imitate Jesus, or Mary or another saint… however, we are not to assume something about how they think and beat someone over the head with it.
I remember still how ridiculous it became when someone said we as women should imitate Mary’s attire. I then said I assumed he wore the attire that Jesus wore, full beard and tunic, and that I’d love to see a pic.
Needless to say there could be no pic. His rules were his taste, and he used his taste to dictate the clothes of others.

I remember that! It was in your thread of the video of the brave Muslim girl. It’s interesting, tho’, that many of those who profess to “know” how* women* “should look” are men. I hate to pull the gender card, but I have it right here up my sleeve.

That being said, I have always thought that when I heard we should be “Christ-like” or look to Mary for how we should be, the key word there is “be.” It is their attributes, not their looks, that we should strive for.

Now, granted, if a woman looks like she’s getting ready to get on the set of a porn movie, that’s a different situation … (Ok, I’m being silly now…)

 

[GodIsGracious]

I’d imagine she probably is shaking her head … and probably isn’t a petty person. At least we can try to be like her in THAT regard!

:yup::clapping:

 

[Marfran]

I remember that! It was in your thread of the video of the brave Muslim girl. It’s interesting, tho’, that many of those who profess to “know” how women** “should look” are men. I hate to pull the gender card, but I have it right here up my sleeve.

That being said, I have always thought that when I heard we should be “Christ-like” or look to Mary for how we should be, the key word there is “be.” It is their attributes, not their looks, that we should strive for.

Now, granted, if a woman looks like she’s getting ready to get on the set of a porn movie, that’s a different situation … (Ok, I’m being silly now…)

Completely right on!!!

 

[aicirt]

Make up can help a woman sell herself. It can make her look glossy like a glossy mag model or a pop star. Lipstick gives me lips that money can buy, foundation and blusher give me skin and cheeks that money can buy. Make up gives my face a price tag. My face without make up is free, I can’t buy it, but it’s also priceless as it is designed by God. My skin colour and lip colour are unique.

Make up is not Mary-like. I think you’ll find most nuns do not wear make up or jewellery for that matter. A lot of lay women wear make up because they do not have any guidelines on appearance like the celibate orders. Make up isn’t necessarily a good for a Christian relationship although it may be necessary in some non-Christian relationships. Not anybody’s fault, that’s just the way it is and not everybody has proper guidance.

May I ask where you obtained your proper guidance?

IMO vanity can be two sides of the same coin. It is by definition becoming excessively proud of oneself or one’s qualities or possessions. It is self-conceit.

First, is the woman who puts herself in debt and becomes a slave to her ideas of perfection. One woman has undergone multiple surgeries to make herself like the doll, Barbie. Michael Jackson would be another example of too much emphasis on self.

Second, the person who takes a sanctimonious attitude against something that isn’t a sin. An example of this extreme would be the mother in Stephen King’s “CARRIE”. No sin existed except in the mother’s imagination. Because of Mom’s obsession, she made life hellish for her daughter and very uncomfortable for people around her.

 

[gabriel22a]

May I ask where you obtained your proper guidance?

IMO vanity can be two sides of the same coin. It is by definition becoming excessively proud of oneself or one’s qualities or possessions. It is self-conceit.

First, is the woman who puts herself in debt and becomes a slave to her ideas of perfection. One woman has undergone multiple surgeries to make herself like the doll, Barbie. Michael Jackson would be another example of too much emphasis on self.

Second, the person who takes a sanctimonious attitude against something that isn’t a sin. An example of this extreme would be the mother in Stephen King’s “CARRIE”. No sin existed except in the mother’s imagination. Because of Mom’s obsession, she made life hellish for her daughter and very uncomfortable for people around her.

Good question–where is the proper guidance? Divine revelation? Sorry for the sarcasm, but in catching up on this thread I re-read “This is divine revelation” in Budgie2’s post regarding peacocks. I hope she means personal divine revelation that applies to herself. I’m not sure about the Church’s stand on proclaiming divine revelation. She also says that she knows the Church is going to add the wearing up makeup as a venial sin. Do you know what the Church teaches about distributing divine revelations because I don’t. Do you know if the Church is headed this way? Budgie2 is not answering the question and I think it is a good one.

But to your post–very pithy and strong. I agree with your comparisons. And although some may say comparing the sanctimonious obsession with imaginary sin with Carrie’s mom is over the top, I am not one of them. I understand your point and fully agree. It is the logical outcome of a religious spirit gone awry. Or more pointedly–gone to an unnatural extreme that transgresses the law of love. I am afraid this is how cults start, and am curious about the underlying causes of the psychological make-up (pardon the pun) that makes a person obsess about what I would consider a matter of personal taste and conscience.

Thanks for the definition of vanity. I hope it eases the minds of those who may have been feeling guilty for no reason–and convicts those who are guilty of it.

 

[lobster]

And Mary didn’t wear makeup. For that matter, in fact we don’t know that she DIDN’T wear any - it is certainly not on record anywhere that she didn’t.

IF she didn’t, that ALSO is not to say that she despised or rejected makeup. For all we know, if she wore none, it may have simply because she was too poor to afford any. Cosmetics were much more expensive in her time than they are now.

As you’ve so ably demonstrated, it is totally fallacious to assume that merely because Mary didn’t do something that it’s wrong to do that thing.

Bingo.

So we can imitate Mary whether we have sex within marriage (which she didn’t do) or not (as she did). Whether we have one child (as she did) or more than one (as she did NOT do). Whether we wear no makeup (as budgie thinks she didn’t) or wear makeup

Bingo again. In fact we are also called to imitate Christ in all things. We follow and imitate Christ whenever we are doing good and not evil. This applies to the marital act as well.

 

[swimmerzo]

God created makeup, however indirectly. Like all the rest of His creation, it is good in and of itself, bad if abused.

A little mascara to boost your confidence, even if you wear it every day, is not an abuse - like the wine Paul recommended Timothy take it ‘gladdens the heart of man’.

It’s something of an art as well, like fashion, hairstyles and the other visual arts. Most of us take at least some pains to select clothing and hairstyles that flatter us and makes us look our best, and don’t just wear any old rags or go totally uncombed and uncoiffed.

It is not vanity to do so - not unless you are totally obsessed and spend an exorbitant amount of your time/money/energy worrying about what your clothes look like or adjusting or reapplying your makeup.

Thank you for saying this, this is probably a bit more encouraging to us makeup wearers. I wear makeup to accent the face God has given me. I feel that any face God has given is beautiful and so I will do things such as hide pimples or blemishes so that my actual face can be seen, not my hormonal pores (hahaha). I do wear a bit of eye makeup, but really its just accent. I don’t change how I actually look.
And as a few people have mentioned, wearing makeup is like wearing nicer clothes or fixing ones hair. Its a matter of respect to those around you to take care of yourself and to make yourself presentable.
Vanity is a different thing. Makeup that appeals to the lust of men is a different matter and that should not be the point. (now answering the original question) If you feel that this is how you’ve felt when wearing makeup, then its best to stop, or so to say remove yourself from the sin.

 

[Ron_Conte]

I’m curious if the Catholic Church teaches anything on women wearing makeup?

There is an interesting passage in the last chapter of the book of Job that applies to this question:

13 And he had seven sons, and three daughters.
14 And he called the name of one Dies, and the name of the second Cassia, and the name of the third Cornustibii.
15 And there were not found in all the earth women so beautiful as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.

The third daughter is called cornu-stibii, which means ‘horn of antimony’. Antimony was an ancient form of make-up. The expression ‘horn of’ would seem to indicate that this daughter used a lot of cosmetics. All three daughters were beautiful in body and soul. One of the daughters wore quite a bit more make-up than the other two.

 

[lonelypetunia]

I love makeup!!! Its my girly vice… I don’t think I paint my face or look enticing or made up for night time. I work at a Catholic institution and my appearance has never caused any scandal. I dress and wear makeup appropriate for my environment. I actually love the natural makeup look all the time… Where you enhance your face rather than paint one on…

I do LOVE girly stuff though!!