Making nice, but working against us

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cestusdei

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I was visiting a major Catholic shrine this week. A huge and important one. Who was hanging around outside looking to collar catholics on our own home turf? That’s right, 2 young men in white shirts with Elder badges. Keep this in mind when they make nice with you. It is only to get us off guard.
 
From the way you got flamed on your last thread I got the impression that this type of activity was strictly forbidden. :confused:
 
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cestusdei:
I was visiting a major Catholic shrine this week. A huge and important one. Who was hanging around outside looking to collar catholics on our own home turf? That’s right, 2 young men in white shirts with Elder badges. Keep this in mind when they make nice with you. It is only to get us off guard.
I wonder if LDS would like to be “hit on” while visiting the Carthage Jail or Hill Cumorah. I imagine they would take great offense to such activity. Very, very, shameful.
 
I’d ask them if they wouldn’t like to come in with me to say hello to Jesus and pray the Rosary with me. Afterall, if we got them there, God would take over.
 
Unfortunately I’ve seen worse. I"ve seen evangelical protesters at the Dallas LDS Temple jumpimg around in Temple clothing and screaming about witchcraft.

I have also known LDS missionaries who would “volunteer” at public libraries as a “service to the community” so that they could add pro LDs books to the inventory and remove anti-LDS publications from it.
 
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majick275:
Unfortunately I’ve seen worse. I"ve seen evangelical protesters at the Dallas LDS Temple jumpimg around in Temple clothing and screaming about witchcraft.

I have also known LDS missionaries who would “volunteer” at public libraries as a “service to the community” so that they could add pro LDs books to the inventory and remove anti-LDS publications from it.
The public library closest to me is right across the street from the local ward meeting house and has a terrific selection of LDS publications (all ‘pro’ - but it is nice to be able to be able to check out volumes of the JoD: they have a set of ‘reference only’ that cannot be checked out as well as two sets which can be taken home). As to whether they also have an ‘anti-Mormon’ selection, I can’t say, as I’ve never really looked although I do know that there are none of the Tanner’s books available!

It’s interesting to note that there is a Catholic church less than 1.5 miles west of this library and, until recently, the ‘Catholic’ section was sparse with a lot of ‘da Vinci’ stuff mixed in with the occasional ‘popular’ Catholic book (a Sheen, a JPII, etc. - no CCC’s at all) but that after the death of JPII, the Catholic section almost doubled with many ‘coffee-table’ type books with photos of JPII and almost the complete Ignatius Press collection of Ratzinger.

I have no doubt that the proximity of the LDS church to the library has resulted in a well-stocked selection of faith promoting LDS books likely donated to the library. If the electronic search catalog is correct, this rather small branch is the only in the county to contain even one complete set of the JoD.

Not a volume on BoM archeology, however…
 
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allhers:
I’d ask them if they wouldn’t like to come in with me to say hello to Jesus and pray the Rosary with me. Afterall, if we got them there, God would take over.
That is a terrific idea - should I ever find myself in the same situation I think that is exactly what I would do (and they may have been there as curious tourists in the first place - I wouldn’t expect a priest to remove his collar while wandering the grounds of the SLC temple, nor would I expect missionaries to remove their distinctive “Elder Smith” badges).
 
Does anyone know if the owners of Walmart are LDS? Our Walmart had the largest selection of LDS books, Book of Mormon, etc. etc. I have ever seen next to the Desert book store. The space given to LDS books was way out of proportion to space given to all other religious books. We have a new temple, about two years old, so maybe Walmart thought this display of “religious” books would be a good seller. I have noticed the size of the display shrinking over the past few months, but still outrageous. I am considering taking a list of Catholic books to the manager and requesting that they be give space in the book section right next to the LDS.

Love and peace,

Mom of 5
 
Mom of 5:
Does anyone know if the owners of Walmart are LDS? Our Walmart had the largest selection of LDS books, Book of Mormon, etc. etc. I have ever seen next to the Desert book store. The space given to LDS books was way out of proportion to space given to all other religious books. We have a new temple, about two years old, so maybe Walmart thought this display of “religious” books would be a good seller. I have noticed the size of the display shrinking over the past few months, but still outrageous. I am considering taking a list of Catholic books to the manager and requesting that they be give space in the book section right next to the LDS.
I think this is just marketing. The MediaPlay’s and Wal-Marts in Utah, Idaho, Nevada and Wyoming all stock lots of LDS books. But in the Bible belt you won’t see hardly any but will see lots of Protestant books. Having been a distributor to Wal-Mart I can tell you they’re only interested in merchandise that sells quickly. If the LDS stuff doesn’t sell well it won’t last long.
 
Mom of 5:
Does anyone know if the owners of Walmart are LDS? Our Walmart had the largest selection of LDS books, Book of Mormon, etc. etc. I have ever seen next to the Desert book store. The space given to LDS books was way out of proportion to space given to all other religious books. We have a new temple, about two years old, so maybe Walmart thought this display of “religious” books would be a good seller. I have noticed the size of the display shrinking over the past few months, but still outrageous. I am considering taking a list of Catholic books to the manager and requesting that they be give space in the book section right next to the LDS.

Love and peace,

Mom of 5
Mom,

Not a BoM nor any other LDS in the Wal-Mart or Sam’s Club that I frequent in a suburb of Birmingham, Alabama: must be a regional thing as there are TONS of protestant books, bibles, etc., to be found but no Catholic bibles, CCCs, etc. I don’t know if there are new titles in that “Left Behind” series but the Sam’s Club, in particular, has devoted more square feet to those titles than any best seller so I assume that they still sell well (in the south, anyway).
 
Mom of 5:
Does anyone know if the owners of Walmart are LDS? Mom of 5
Sam Walton was Christian, not a Catholic, but also not a mormon. When he died, his kids and wife inherited the business. I am not sure how the corporation works, but most franchises are run by different people under the umbrella of the original. Those people make decisions based on the local area and the guidelines of the company. If there is a large number of LDS in the area, and not many Catholics, it would explain the number of books available. However, not knowing how the local stored are ‘owned’, it may also be that the LOCAL owner/franchisee is LDS.

Yes, take in a list of good Catholic books and ask them to consider carrying them. But choose books that you know sell, so that they are convinced that there is a market for future sales with other titles.
 
After my last thread I had to post this one since I saw it myself personally. In my local library I donated some Catholic books. The included Karl’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism. I check occasionally to ensure they aren’t “lost”. They do get checked out.
 
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cestusdei:
I was visiting a major Catholic shrine this week. A huge and important one. Who was hanging around outside looking to collar catholics on our own home turf? That’s right, 2 young men in white shirts with Elder badges. Keep this in mind when they make nice with you. It is only to get us off guard.
LDS Missionaries are encouraged to visit religious sites of other faiths to some extent. I have seen them attend Seventh-Day Adventist worship services. I have seen them at the local Hare Krishna restaurant-and-temple. I have seen them at a Greek Orthodox festival, and bumped into them as we were all viewing the Orthodox chapel/sanctuary.

So far as I know, they may not participate in other people’s religious practices but are encouraged to observe wherever they are welcome to do so. Apparently the LDS Church encourages them to broaden their awareness of other faiths to some degree while on their missions. It has already been made abundantly clear in other threads that missionaries are forbidden by LDS Church policy to tract or proselytise on other folk’s sacred ground. They may however visit and learn, and in my experience they often do. Nothing ominous going on.
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majick275:
I have also known LDS missionaries who would “volunteer” at public libraries as a “service to the community” so that they could add pro LDs books to the inventory and remove anti-LDS publications from it.
To my knowledge, LDS Missionaries don’t remove anti-LDS materials from libraries though they do often volunteer at such and contribute pro-LDS material. Missionaries are also known to participate in Habitat For Humanity and other laudatory projects. They used to volunteer here in the Wood River library though I think they now spend their time volunteering elsewhere. They never stole anything of which I am aware. Our local library system has plenty of anti-LDS material to accompany the pro-Mormon stuff. If you ever catch a Missionary removing anti-LDS stuff, report them to the Mission President and watch how quickly that Elder goes home in disgrace.
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Tmaque:
I wonder if LDS would like to be “hit on” while visiting the Carthage Jail or Hill Cumorah. I imagine they would take great offense to such activity. Very, very, shameful.
Actually, they DO get ‘hit upon’ at their more well-known attractions and events, and often by very rude, obnoxious, and flamboyant protestors. Go over to FAIR-LDS and look up the thread on “General Conference Photos”–pretty abysmal behavior, no matter how dim a view one takes of LDS doctrine.
 
Well I should clarify here. I don’t personally know of any LDS missionaries who STOLE library books. What I observed myself was that they would donate their pro-LDS books as “updates” or “corrections” to replace the anti-books. The librarians in those cases just assumed that doctrine had been updated or some such and that it was a good idea to replace the “obsolete” books on Mormonism with the shiny new “updated” ones.

I have READ and HEARD about LDS missionaries checking out “anti” Moromon library books, throwing them away and then just paying the library fine for a lost book. I have not been able to confirm any of those reports. (just as background info those incidents all came to my attention through LDS sources)

I have seen LDS missionaries attend pentecostal services in the US and then seek out the “curious” for later appointments.
 
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majick275:
Well I should clarify here. I don’t personally know of any LDS missionaries who STOLE library books. What I observed myself was that they would donate their pro-LDS books as “updates” or “corrections” to replace the anti-books. The librarians in those cases just assumed that doctrine had been updated or some such and that it was a good idea to replace the “obsolete” books on Mormonism with the shiny new “updated” ones.

I have READ and HEARD about LDS missionaries checking out “anti” Moromon library books, throwing them away and then just paying the library fine for a lost book. I have not been able to confirm any of those reports. (just as background info those incidents all came to my attention through LDS sources).
You’re acknowledging that you are treating hearsay as established fact. I don’t doubt that some ‘true believers’ may do something of this sort, but I think the same is true of anti-Catholic material in some areas, anti-Republican Party material in some places, etcetera. In other cases, Protestants or Catholics (or Republicans) have checked out the books and kept them for their own private libraries. I happen to know personally of people who have done this–not that anecdotal evidence is proof of very much.

Since the books get paid for, in theory they ought to be replaced by the library with the identical book, but this doesn’t always happen. I’m sure that some librarians get influenced by the ploy you described but I also expect that good librarians are even more aware of the tactics of book-burners, censors, and ideologues than we are and take measures to ensure that their resources remain as balanced as possible.
I have seen LDS missionaries attend pentecostal services in the US and then seek out the “curious” for later appointments.
Tactics like that would backfire a lot I suspect. Most people attending any sort of worship service are relatively committed or have a circle of committed family and friends. Door-to-door proselytising would be much more effective than fishing in the manner you describe. Even more effective are the pageants, tourist attractions, plays, musical events, advertisements, and similar tactics which draw in people who are already clearly interested and curious. Most LDS Missionaries have a pretty full plate of ‘prospects’ without putting their hand into hornet’s nests and piranah ponds.

And in some cases I think that LDS Missionaries go onto potentially ‘hostile’ territory because one or more of the pair are already experiencing some measure of doubt. I would look upon their presence in exactly such a light. I wouldn’t expect them to shuck their name tags on the spot, but I would be cordial and watch for opportunities to ‘water seeds’ which may already be growing. Abandoning a mission as an apostate is highly improbable–the disgrace can be overwhelming–but plenty of former Mormons are returned missionaries.
 
flame,
I saw them and they were proslytizing. This is not the first time. I saw them at the Cathedral in Madrid doing the same thing. They weren’t just playing “tourist”. This is a tactic that ex-missionaries will admit to.
 
You must realize, Missionaries are only human. As a Mormon, I know we don’t profess to be perfect. I agree with about everything I have read in this thread. It isn’t right for a missionary to proselyte on the grounds of another religion, but I see no reason why they cannot be there. In fact, if I were invited in as a missionary, I would gladly accept the opportunity, but I would refuse to debate religion within the walls of the building or the surrounding property. That’s a good way to get yourself lynched (metaphorically speaking).
 
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isaac.madsen:
That’s a good way to get yourself lynched (metaphorically speaking).
Maybe even literally depending on the religion…:bigyikes:
 
😃 Yes. Unfortunately, this is true. Some people try to lynch missionaries even if those particular missionaries don’t do anything against them. For example, my uncle served a mission in Mexico City and was chased across a beach by a man wielding a machete. Luckily, my uncle was in shape back then and the man with the machete was quite rotund.
 
Sadly enough when I was LDS I have lived in two different wards in the USA where a total of three full time missionaries were murdered. It was great tragedy and they didn’t deserve that.
 
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