Malachi 1:11: How can Protestant type of worship fullfil this passage?

[Mannyfit75]

Since Protestant Worship lacks sacrifice how can they justify the prophecy stated in Malachi 1:11 which states,

"For from the rising of the sun to its setting, My Name is Great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My Name, and a Pure Offering; for my name is great amongst the nations, says the Lord of Host.

Orthodox Liturgy and Catholic Liturgy seems to fullfill this prophecy. There none in Protestant type of “praise and worship service.”

 

[Crumpy]

Are you “going beyond” the prophecy?

What did the verse mean in the day of Malachi? Is the modern protestant service any different?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Are you “going beyond” the prophecy?

What did the verse mean in the day of Malachi? Is the modern protestant service any different?

It is a prophecy that the Lord will offer a Pure Offering, which the Liturgical Mass has. In the Mass, the Eucharist is the sacrifice, it is made present to all to be offered to God, the Father.

 

[Tonks40]

Since Protestant Worship lacks sacrifice how can they justify the prophecy stated in Malachi 1:11 which states,

"For from the rising of the sun to its setting, My Name is Great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My Name, and a Pure Offering; for my name is great amongst the nations, says the Lord of Host.

Orthodox Liturgy and Catholic Liturgy seems to fullfill this prophecy. There none in Protestant type of “praise and worship service.”

In a nutshell, I believe they can’t.

Ask a protestant, and they’d probably say that Malachi is not referring to liturgy, but rather one’s own actions of worship to God on a daily basis, whether it be prayers, or song, or offerings of their own suffering (which I’m sure they believe is pure).

 

[cckz7]

In a nutshell, I believe they can’t.

Ask a protestant, and they’d probably say that Malachi is not referring to liturgy, but rather one’s own actions of worship to God on a daily basis, whether it be prayers, or song, or offerings of their own suffering (which I’m sure they believe is pure).

So true. They have a so-called answer for everything. That’s why its aggravating trying to talk to them sometimes… Even so, i have to remember that thye were raised differently… and it is very hard to overcome how you were raised…

 

[cckz7]

Are you “going beyond” the prophecy?

What did the verse mean in the day of Malachi? Is the modern protestant service any different?

i dont understand this comment: is the modern protestant serv any different?"

I feel that the Protestant’s services are good insofar as they stick to Scripture and true interpretations thereof… and as long as they are done with charity toward other “denominations” and Catholics… But frankly, how many of them do that? And besides, man is man and God is God… Protestant religions are based on the opinions of men (Martin Luther, t he Father of Protestantism, Svigli, Wesley, etc…).
I have found in my Christian walk that holiness is something we humans don’t usually, in our natural selves, have much of a clue about… We have to be in Christ’s holy presence (in the Church) in order to know holiness…
Wehn outside the Church, we only know “about holiness”… more waht it is NOT than what it IS…
And even then, some of us (all of us??) get it wrong more often than not…
“Without holiness it is impossible to please God.”

 

[cckz7]

Since Protestant Worship lacks sacrifice how can they justify the prophecy stated in Malachi 1:11 which states,

"For from the rising of the sun to its setting, My Name is Great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My Name, and a Pure Offering; for my name is great amongst the nations, says the Lord of Host.

Orthodox Liturgy and Catholic Liturgy seems to fullfill this prophecy. There none in Protestant type of “praise and worship service.”

I just want to thank you for posting this… I had “forgotten” about that passage. It is so beautiful… Reading it makes me feel so Catholic!! (That’s so important to me because i live around Soooo many Protesters… )… Please pray for me…

 

[Randy_Carson]

Since Protestant Worship lacks sacrifice how can they justify the prophecy stated in Malachi 1:11 which states,

"For from the rising of the sun to its setting, My Name is Great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My Name, and a Pure Offering; for my name is great amongst the nations, says the Lord of Host.

Orthodox Liturgy and Catholic Liturgy seems to fullfill this prophecy. There none in Protestant type of “praise and worship service.”

:clapping:

 

[Jennifer_G]

In a nutshell, I believe they can’t.

Ask a protestant, and they’d probably say that Malachi is not referring to liturgy, but rather one’s own actions of worship to God on a daily basis, whether it be prayers, or song, or offerings of their own suffering (which I’m sure they believe is pure).

Or simply the Old Testament. The way I took it being raised in a Lutheran background, most of what was said in the Old Testament stayed there, with a few execptions (10 Commandments, Isiah, etc.). Protestants tend to focus the church service on the Gospel rather than any traditions done in the Old Testament days.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Or simply the Old Testament. The way I took it being raised in a Lutheran background, most of what was said in the Old Testament stayed there, with a few execptions (10 Commandments, Isiah, etc.). Protestants tend to focus the church service on the Gospel rather than any traditions done in the Old Testament days.

Does the Gospel not have a Sacrifice?

 

[Fiona_S]

Or simply the Old Testament. The way I took it being raised in a Lutheran background, most of what was said in the Old Testament stayed there, with a few execptions (10 Commandments, Isiah, etc.). Protestants tend to focus the church service on the Gospel rather than any traditions done in the Old Testament days.

This is very true!!! I belong to another forum which is mixed Catholic and Protestant although it is largely Protestant. There are many times in which we debate issues and scripture from the old testement is dismissed.

:banghead:

 

[Mannyfit75]

This is very true!!! I belong to another forum which is mixed Catholic and Protestant although it is largely Protestant. There are many times in which we debate issues and scripture from the old testement is dismissed.

:banghead:

You know the argument that OT is dismiss would contradict 2 Tim 3:16-17:

**All scripture **is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

This include all OT text and since this was written at the time of St. Paul the only Scripture then was the OT, both the Tanakh Hebrew Scripture and the Septuagint…

 

[Mamastrocity]

You know the argument that OT is dismiss would contradict 2 Tim 3:16-17:

And a lovely answer to that is 1 Tim 3:15:

“so that if I should be delayed you will know what kind of conduct befits a member of God’s household, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of truth.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

And a lovely answer to that is 1 Tim 3:15:

“so that if I should be delayed you will know what kind of conduct befits a member of God’s household, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of truth.”

and the Church offers Sacrifice that is pure just stated in Malachi 1:11…

 

[MarcoPolo]

Does anyone have a New Jerome commentary? If so, does it conclude that Malachi 1:11 was in reference to the purity of other pagan sacrifices at the time Malachi was written?

According to New Jerome commentary:

It is difficult to take the literal sense as having reference to the future. It is made up of nominal clauses, without any finite vb., and the ptc. muggas, “offered” cannot by itself give these clauses future reference any more than do the ptcs. in v 12, whose time reference is clearly present. …

See this protestant argument.

I am not fully convinced by the “present tense” nature of this passage meaning that it doesn’t reference the future, because prophets sometimes spoke in present tense.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Does anyone have a New Jerome commentary? If so, does it conclude that Malachi 1:11 was in reference to the purity of other pagan sacrifices at the time Malachi was written?

According to New Jerome commentary:

See this protestant argument.

I am not fully convinced by the “present tense” nature of this passage meaning that it doesn’t reference the future, because prophets sometimes spoke in present tense.

The only question remains though, how can Protestant type of worship made sense to the passage in Malachi 1:11?

Second there is als a parallel between this a passage when Jesus was speaking to the Samaritan woman.

21 Jesus saith to her: Woman, believe me, that the hour cometh, when you shall neither on this mountain, not in Jerusalem, adore the Father. John Chapter 4 verse 21.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Since Protestant Worship lacks sacrifice how can they justify the prophecy stated in Malachi 1:11 which states,

"For from the rising of the sun to its setting, My Name is Great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My Name, and a Pure Offering; for my name is great amongst the nations, says the Lord of Host.

Orthodox Liturgy and Catholic Liturgy seems to fullfill this prophecy. There none in Protestant type of “praise and worship service.”

In two ways:​

• 1. By offering the spiritual sacrifice of a heart that is obedient to the Will of God
• 1. By obeying the command to show forth His death until He shall come again, which is done in their commemorations of His “Pure Offering”
     That, or something of the kind, is what I would say if I were a mainstream Protestant, such as an Anglican.

Calvin has this on that passage: ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom30.iv.ii.xii.html?scrBook=Mal&scrCh=1-1&scrV=11-11#iv.ii.xii-p5.1

St. Augustine has this: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf102.iv.XVIII.35.html

Matthew Henry (18th century): ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc4.Mal.ii.html?scrBook=Mal&scrCh=1-1&scrV=11-11#Mal.ii-p12.5 - near the end of the page, from “V. He declares his resolution…” to “…even the priests themselves.”

Jamieson, Faussett & Brown (1871): ccel.org/ccel/jamieson/jfb.x.xxxix.ii.html?scrBook=Mal&scrCh=1-1&scrV=11-11#x.xxxix.ii-p27.6

FWIW, different translations seem to disagree about the tenses in the verse, so some translations are more favourable to an understanding of the text as referring to the Mass than others.

 

[SyCarl]

The only question remains though, how can Protestant type of worship made sense to the passage in Malachi 1:11?

Second there is als a parallel between this a passage when Jesus was speaking to the Samaritan woman.

21 Jesus saith to her: Woman, believe me, that the hour cometh, when you shall neither on this mountain, not in Jerusalem, adore the Father. John Chapter 4 verse 21.

Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
(Hebrews 13:15 NASB)

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Why do Protestants believe in un-holy water but hate incense?

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Since Protestant Worship lacks sacrifice how can they justify the prophecy stated in Malachi 1:11 which states,

"For from the rising of the sun to its setting, My Name is Great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to My Name, and a Pure Offering; for my name is great amongst the nations, says the Lord of Host.

Orthodox Liturgy and Catholic Liturgy seems to fullfill this prophecy. There none in Protestant type of “praise and worship service.”

ROFL ROFL ROFL

When you rip a text compeletely out of context you create a false teaching on the text, NO it does not fit protestant worship, NOR does it fit Catholic worship, since it is in CONTEXT speaking of Jewish ANIMAL sacrafices, no christian worship services have animal sacrafices to my knowledge. The context of Malachi one is not addressing Christians at all. Frankly, it is this form of poor interpretation of scripture by catholics that push us protestants away from you. Jesus is NOT the subject of sacrafice in this text, blind and lame animals are. Jesus is a lamb without spot or blemish.

Blemished Sacrifices

6 “A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?” says the LORD Almighty. "It is you, O priests, who show contempt for my name.
"But you ask, ‘How have we shown contempt for your name?’
** 7 "You place defiled food on my altar.**
"But you ask, ‘How have we defiled you?’
“By saying that the LORD’s table is contemptible. 8 When you bring blind animals for sacrifice, is that not wrong? When you sacrifice crippled or diseased animals, is that not wrong? Try offering them to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you?” says the LORD Almighty.

9 “Now implore God to be gracious to us. With such offerings from your hands, will he accept you?”-says the LORD Almighty.

10 “Oh, that one of you would shut the temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on my altar! I am not pleased with you,” says the LORD Almighty, “and I will accept no offering from your hands. 11 My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.

12 “But you profane it by saying of the Lord’s table, ‘It is defiled,’ and of its food, ‘It is contemptible.’ 13 And you say, ‘What a burden!’ and you sniff at it contemptuously,” says the LORD Almighty.
“When you bring injured, crippled or diseased animals and offer them as sacrifices, should I accept them from your hands?” says the LORD. 14 “Cursed is the cheat who has an acceptable male in his flock and vows to give it, but then sacrifices a blemished animal to the Lord. For I am a great king,” says the LORD Almighty, "and my name is to be feared among the nations.