Male consecrated virgins

[Dakota_Roberts]

So a man is always a virgin unless he gets screwed by another man or gets pegged?
QUOTE

What does that mean? I know i said I am done with this conversation. This is the last post on this. What makes a man a virgin is one that obstains from sex and never has sex. He keeps himself chaste throughout his life from birth to natural death. He gives himself to Christ as a virgin he hever had intercourse ever. That is what a virgin is one who saves him/herself either for marrage or their whole life for God. That is a virgin. again the OP’s nephew’s choice in life should be celebrated not discouraged. This is a Catholic forum here we should expect support not uncharitable statements like the one I quoted. That is just nasty and unsupportive and probably don’t sit well with the OP. I feel the OP’s nephew should be highly respected not called a girl or feminine or any other negative comments. God bless Good bye on this thread but I fully lovingly support this kid who is living for Christ. God bless you all Scoob.

I was referring to “without the act of penetration one indeed is considered a virgin”
There is nothing wrong with a man being meek and mild from a Catholic perspective indeed a number of saints were very much on the meek and mild side, but from the abominable modern perspective it is seen as weakness. I think the nastygrams are from people viewing it from the modern perspective.

Ms. Weber, I think it is excellent you bring up St. John, he was the Beloved of Jesus and indeed told Mary that John was her son. I think would be interesting to draw parallels with Mary and her adoptive son John. On the other hand I believe the person you meant to reference was St. Joseph the Blessed Mother’s most chaste spouse

 

[1Samuel8]

I was wondering if anyone can help me - can my nephew be a consecrated virgin?

Why do you care?
Your concern in this matter is bizarre.

You should set this fine young man free.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Why do you care?
Your concern in this matter is bizarre.

You should set this fine young man free.

He can leave whenever he wants

 

[Dale_M]

Why do you care?
Your concern in this matter is bizarre.

As his aunt, I think she has more reason to be concerned about his welfare than do you.

 

[1Samuel8]

As his aunt, I think she has more reason to be concerned about his welfare than do you.

Indeed but the way she expresses her concern is not normal and borders on perverted control.

He can leave whenever he wants

She never said that. From her own writing, it is more than obvious that she is not leading him to become a dependent adult.
It is not normal for his aunt to be so concerned that a good young catholic man such as he never goes on to marry.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Indeed but the way she expresses her concern is not normal and borders on perverted control.

She never said that. From her own writing, it is more than obvious that she is not leading him to become a dependent adult.
It is not normal for his aunt to be so concerned that a good young catholic man such as he never goes on to marry.

He is an adult, he can leave whenever he wants.

Considering celibacy is higher than marriage what is wrong with him never marrying?

Considering he has basically become a homemaker I’m not sure that he is suited for marriage.

 

[tjwdsssc2015]

I am sorry but I and quite a few priests dissagree with that statement. I am indeed a virgin and that is that. I am not posting on this anylonger and I feel that the OP’s nephew is also a virgin and it is a wonderful way to live. God bless you all Scoob,.

JMJ

With all due respect, scoobydoo6v92, I need to be blunt and honest with you:

I have said repeatedly, as KostyaJMJ just reiterated, that virginity comes in two forms, and that when it comes to the Saints, the Church only gives the honorific title of Virgin to females. This is not going to change! Perhaps it is the case that my explanations may be speculative, but even so, there is an objective reality that will not change, and I am only seeking to explain it. Here’s the part that’s hard to swallow: refusing to give your assent to the objective reality as a true teaching of the Church (you don’t have to accept my explanation of it, but the objective reality still remains) is a rejection of truth and a loss of full communion with the Church. Welcome to theology.

Scoob, I will explain once more for your benefit my understanding of why this is. To repeat what I’ve said before, I am not denying that you are in certain respects a virgin–and please, I am right there with you!! The common, social, secular understanding of virginity what Fr. Hardon calls Physical Virginity: “sometimes defined as the absence of any sinfully experienced lustful sensation. But, strictly speaking, a person is physically a virgin unless he or she has had sexual intercourse with a person of the opposite sex” (emphasis added). So, in this sense, you, Jon, I, and many many other men out there are virgins. Moral Virginity, according to Fr. Hardon, is different: “Moral virginity means the absence of any willful consent to venereal pleasure.” Moreover, Fr. Hardon makes two further distinctions, which can encompass either of the former, or otherwise: factual virginity–when “a person has not in the past sought or indulged in sexual pleasure”–and intentional virginity–“when a person intends never to experience such pleasure.”

You don’t have to agree with this breakdown of the understanding of virginity. But I give it to you to help explain that yes! In a certain way you are a virgin, and this is a VERY GOOD THING! Please, believe me, I am proud of the fact that I am a virgin and I will be for the rest of my life (may the Lord preserve me). I am NOT saying that living chastely in one’s current state of life is a waste of time; I am NOT saying that it is not virtuous; I am NOT saying that you do not receive many graces for observing virginity and imitating the Lord Jesus Christ in that way! So please, in return, do NOT make it seem that I am saying that!!

The only thing that you do need to accept is that from the Church’s theological standpoint, men never have been nor ever will be “virgins” as such. Like I said before, if you or I or any other man is canonized, you will never see any of us listed in the common of virgins! It’s not going to happen! The Church has her reasons, and ultimately it doesn’t matter. Sure, it’s better when we understand why the Church teaches what she does, but more important than that is our submission and assent to Her authority when we are uncertain about the reason. I am saying this out of charitable concern for you!

God love you!

 

[tjwdsssc2015]

Thank you for your post. In the last week, I have received some criticism, including some rude private messages, stating that Jon should grow up, live his own life and not have been guided by me. All I wanted to know was whether there were male consecrated virgins. Instead I have been criticised by persons re my nephew and also now had people arguing over whether males can or cannot be virgins.

JMJ

Dear Anna,

First–I owe you an email reply, and I’m getting to it, I’m sorry! I am way behind in my emails right now…seminary life is busy!

Second, as you’ll see from my explanation above, I am not in any way trying to demerit Jon’s purity; on the contrary, I respect and admire chastity and purity in all people–especially men! Being one myself, I know how difficult it is to maintain custody of the eyes and heart, and I know that even with the most fervent prayer and most unwavering trust in God, I by my own concupiscence, still occasionally fall. I’m not trying to suggest that this is also the case for Jon: I am blessed to know many very holy seminarians on a very personal level, and some of my brothers have confided in me that they have not fallen into such a state of sin–for some, ever, but for most, in a very long time. One brother I know, for example, told me that he has never fallen into sin of impurity of the flesh–and I believe him! However, what is biologically inescapable for any adolescent and young-adult male is nocturnal emissions; while these do not affect the state of one’s soul or jeopardize one’s salvation–even venially, unless one is somewhat conscious and is participating in the thoughts associated with the emission–the event of the emission itself cannot be avoided. The ancient Hebrews recognized the significance of these emissions by considering a man impure after he has ejaculated, just as a woman is impure after menstruating. NB: the analogy stops here; it is incorrect to go on to say that this association has anything to do with virginity. My use of the Old Testament Law is only to show that the event of nocturnal emissions was significant even in ancient times.

This is the reason, dear Anna, to the best of my understanding, that the Church does not label men virgins. Like I said, that does not mean the Church doesn’t recognize the heroic virtue in rightly lived chastity and celibacy. We have thus far been equivocating the secular and ecclesiastically definitions of “virginity”. We can equivocate no longer, because it is leading readers into error. The entire world uses the word “virgin” in a way different than the Church uses it. I cannot emphasize the distinction enough.

I also hold that the comments against Jon’s masculinity are entirely unwarranted. To be fair, I won’t go so far as to assert that Jon is masculine in personality; not because I don’t think he is, but because I’ve never met him. And that is just my point: we cannot make assumptions about one’s personality based on a very randomly selective set of descriptors from one individual’s perspective. And even then, what one person would describe as masculine, another might not. Therefore, I conclude that the personal demeaning of the young man’s masculinity is offensive and inappropriate, entirely irrelevant to the context.

As I’ve shared with you in private correspondence, Anna, I think you’re doing just fine with Jon, and–for the rest of the readers–this is coming from the perspective of a young man who is the same age as Jon (namely, me). I don’t know the ages of the other readers out there and those who have indeed said hurtful things, but perhaps they are not of Jon and my generation, and don’t have the same perspective on the situation.

I’ll have you know, Anna, that as I’ve promised you, I pray daily for you, for Jon, and for Jon’s vocation, whatever it may be; and I will continue to do so.

God love you!!

 

[Kaizmom]

Has he considered becoming a priest or a brother? Just a thought. I am a member of the Pauline family(Holy Family Institute which is consecration for married and widowed) they have the following for single men/women:

The Annunciationists and the Gabrielites

In 1958, while the West was prospering materially but languishing spiritually and communism was in full vigor but humanly bankrupt, Fr. Alberione invited men and women while continuing to live in a secular world to follow the evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity and obedience. They bring their intensity and deep love of God into the workplace, along the highways of the secular city. They gently show that God is alive and well.

If he would like information on this you can PM me and I will give you my directors name and number for more information.

Sounds like a wonderful young man—hmmm I have a 19 yo daughter

Coild you please send me this info on the Annunciationists and Gabrielites. I have a friend who is homosexual looking at becoming a consecrated single person but we did not know if there were any canonically approved groups out there. thanks!

 

[Cloisters]

Consecrated male virgins would go under “new movements”. Blessed JPII asked the church to be open to such. There is a movement underway to organize virgin males into a charism which will lead to consecration.

A question which is being discerned is whether or not to admit ordained priests. I could also see the consecration being a positive step toward priestly ordination.

Most with whom I have spoken about this want the male counterpart (note I didn’t say equivalent because it’s not possible) of the Consecrated Virgin for women. I haven’t made this up. These guys are put in my path.

In the consecrated male virgin scenario, actual physical relations is what is being spoken of. Those discerning are usually very frank about their status.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[on_the_hill]

What kind of mortification does he do?

What happens if he strays from his regular disciplined life?

 

[on_the_hill]

Considering celibacy is higher than marriage

Since when?

 

[opus101]

Since when?

Since St. Paul said so.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

What kind of mortification does he do?

What happens if he strays from his regular disciplined life?

This is an old thread. The OP hasn’t logged in since last August and has not replied to this thread in a year and a half.

There are newer threads on consecrated virginity, etc…y’all.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Since when?

St. Paul, as well as the Fathers of the Church have been very clear on this. Virginity and celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven is a higher calling than to the married state. That doesn’t mean that marriage isn’t a holy institution. There is also an encyclical written on this.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Consecrated male virgins would go under “new movements”. Blessed JPII asked the church to be open to such. There is a movement underway to organize virgin males into a charism which will lead to consecration.

A question which is being discerned is whether or not to admit ordained priests. I could also see the consecration being a positive step toward priestly ordination.

Most with whom I have spoken about this want the male counterpart (note I didn’t say equivalent because it’s not possible) of the Consecrated Virgin for women. I haven’t made this up. These guys are put in my path.

In the consecrated male virgin scenario, actual physical relations is what is being spoken of. Those discerning are usually very frank about their status.

Blessings,
Cloisters

The male “counterpart” is the priesthood as priests are in persona Christe the Church’s Bridegroom, and the Consecrated Virgin represents Christ’s Bride, The Church.

 

[on_the_hill]

St. Paul, as well as the Fathers of the Church have been very clear on this. Virginity and celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven is a higher calling than to the married state. That doesn’t mean that marriage isn’t a holy institution. There is also an encyclical written on this.

Alrighty, then.

Thank God virtually none of us are (or were ever) called. Otherwise, Catholicism would have gone the way of the Ephrata Cloister. And I’d have never been born.

Not to mention the whole ‘be fruitful’ idea God had a thing for.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Alrighty, then.

Thank God virtually none of us are (or were ever) called. Otherwise, Catholicism would have gone the way of the Ephrata Cloister. And I’d have never been born.

Not to mention the whole ‘be fruitful’ idea God had a thing for.

Well, as St. Paul said, let he who can take it, take it, but if one should marry he does not sin. It is better to marry than to burn.

 

[sojo]

The attraction of this thread is not so much the discussion of a man consecrating his virginity as it was the idea of a 23 year old adult man living with an older woman to whom he devotes his life serving when he is not praying and mortifying and accepting “discipline” from him. He allows/ed her to dictate what he watches on TV and reads on the computer. And he likes to wear a “uniform” or “habit” of sorts around the house. And no plan to waiver from the plan to look after and serve her.

It has sufficient “creep” factor to keep many of glued to it, and pull in those of us who missed the original thread.

I had hoped the OP would clarify and what seemed a bit “off” would turn out not to be so on clarification, but it seems she was derailed into discussions about whether or not her nephew was indeed a virgin. So I guess we’ll never know if joined a seminary, fell in love with the girl next door and married, went back to school and got law degree and moved into a luxury condo or moved to San Francisco to explore an alternate life style. Hope it all worked out for both of them.

(to clarify - being a virgin has NO creep factor whatsoever. Its the other things and the way they were phrased)

 

[Ducklyn]

I was wondering if anyone can help me - can my nephew be a consecrated virgin?

My nephew has lived with me since he was 17. He is now 23. He assists me with my living (I have been ill) and is very obedient and pure. We pray together and do everything Catholic together. He has his own room here in my house which is something of a little chapel. I have never once had an argument with him and he does my chores, shopping, cleaning and helps with entertaining guests. He accepts discipline happily and does what he is told. He is very chaste and somewhat shy.

He says he feels his vocation is to look after me. I would still like to help him find a proper work for his goodness. I know that young girls who are carers can be consecrated virgins - can younger males be as well? Or something like that state.

I would appreciate any advice that can be provided.

Anna

Why not ask at your own Church. After all the priest would know both of you and could make an educated decision when giving you the advice you seek.
He should not need discipline at 23 and to be fair he is doing more than would be expected by our Lord. I would be humbled by his dedication and his servant position to serve. But I do believe that fairness is good. How much do you pay him for being a full time housekeeper and carer? I take it that when you return home to the LORD, you will be leaving him your estate. That would be the just and kind thing to do. He is doing far more than any son would be expected to do. Give God thanks.