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Havard
Guest
When you say “attention directed at them”, would you like your pastor to lead an initiative? How much involvement from the pastor or parochial vicar would you like?
- Status
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Jay417
Guest
Hi, I’m male and highly involved in my parish. I’m in the KofC, choir member, lector, and Eucharist Minister. My wife is also involved as a cantor and lector.
In my parish men often do the majority of work around the parish, but make up only about 35% of the lay ministers. Men under 40 rarely participate in anything work or ministerial. In face I may be the youngest male that is so active (I’m 32).
I think a lot of the problem is younger, teen and preteen males are not being taught to value being Catholic. Many times I’ve heard a teen male remark how, “My mom/dad says I don’t have to say Hail Mary if I don’t want to, or the saints are just superstition, just pray to Jesus.” no wonder they didn’t want to help place a statue in the garden or participate in adoration.
Catholic pride is missing.
In my parish men often do the majority of work around the parish, but make up only about 35% of the lay ministers. Men under 40 rarely participate in anything work or ministerial. In face I may be the youngest male that is so active (I’m 32).
I think a lot of the problem is younger, teen and preteen males are not being taught to value being Catholic. Many times I’ve heard a teen male remark how, “My mom/dad says I don’t have to say Hail Mary if I don’t want to, or the saints are just superstition, just pray to Jesus.” no wonder they didn’t want to help place a statue in the garden or participate in adoration.
Catholic pride is missing.
M
MaximusBBS
Guest
- I became a Catholic in 12/2014! Since then I’ve joined KofC, and recently volunteered to be an Usher (though haven’t actually done that yet. Also, my wife has been VP and President of “Our Lady’s Guild”, the women’s group for our Parish, and I’ve done a lot to help her with that long the way. I’ve considered joining the Choir, but need to see how time commitments work out.
- Choir, I think there’s only 2 men in it…
- K of C is the only thing we have for men so far… Our church doesn’t have any Bible studies or anything like that available to me… Everything they offer is during the work-day. Once my wife and I tried to go to an even that was supposed to be Thursday evenings, but found the church vacant and doors locked. Turns out they had discontinued the evening portion, but never bothered to take it out of the bulletin. A large portion of our church is retirees, thus the daytime activities.
- K of C is all I can address… It seems very lackadaisical and not very interesting. I’ve been to a few meetings and pretty much they talk about fund raising, serving the homeless (our Parish does this once a month, rotating among the various groups), and why they don’t have more new Knights… Maybe because they don’t DO anything that people really care about?
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
- I donate money at the moment. I work 100 days out of the country so it is difficult for me to schedule any kind of activity with my local parish. If I volunteer I would have to schedule vacation and it would be really difficult to justify spending more time away from my kids than I already do.
- I’d say more involvement from young men. We have the youth group up to 18, family ministry, and KofC for the 60 and older crowd; but very little in the way of groups for single men in their twenties and thirties.
- nothing lacking in the way of opportunities, just in involvement
- In terms of scheduling things could be made more accessible for men who have to work to support a family. Right now things are more geared towards retirees and stay at home moms.
M
MaximusBBS
Guest
Sounds like my Parish…
A note though… KofC is not intended (only) for the 60+ crowd… I’m 29, and there’s at least 3 other members of our chapter in 20’s or 30’s.
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
No not intended that way but very few men below 60 that I’ve seen. I joined in my 20’s but the next youngest member at the meetings I attended was 73. Nothing wrong with that but it did make me feel out of place.
Z
Zzyzx_Road
Guest
I am almost exactly between two parishes and I attend Mass at both. Neither one has an active KoC chapter that I can tell. Both have youth groups, retiree activities, some family things, but nothing directed at single adults. When I was involved at my previous parish, I usually found myself the lone single man among the married people, mostly women. That one had an active KoC chapter but it was all married men and I got no interest when I asked about joining.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Of course! Role of a Father is integral in any men’s organization.
As an aside. KofC was horrible in my experience. Mostly it was full of older men who just liked to socialize and “get away” from their wives for a while. Any younger member was heavily bombarded and marginalized. There was little to no spiritual growth opportunities The whole thing in my old parish was just a vehicle to sell insurance that I did not need or want. It had a “pyramid” feel with an “Elks lodge” or “Shriner’s” smell. Not that they are masonic or as secret as the Shriner’s, just in demographics (and odor)
I understand it is different in other areas but my initial exposure has forever tainted my view.I don’t want to make this thread about kofc and I don’t want to start a debate on how it is not like that anywhere else so I will just say, “Yes, i know that many men enjoy it, it is not my bag.”
Other than attending Mass, I’m not involved at all. Generally all the churches in my area are ran by women. Some churches do have some KofC membership, but based on the chuches in my area, I was literally under the assumption that KofC is an exclusive group for senior citizen aged men. You never see KofC men that look under 65.
P
powerofk
Guest
And see, that’s actually part of the problem. The KofC is for ALL Catholic men. And, if run well, it’s a great group to belong to. The KofC, in fact, was originally formed to support married Catholic men with families, as, at the time it was formed, the only jobs available to Catholic men in the eastern US were the most dangerous (mining, railroad, etc.). Most other employers wouldn’t even hire Catholics. As such, Catholic men felt forced to leave the Church so that they could provide for their families; and if they didn’t, they worried about their wives being widowed and their children orphaned. And at that time, widowhood and orphanhood pretty much immediately meant severe poverty, as it was difficult for women to find work. In addition, most fraternal groups were closed to Catholics (and in the case of the Masons, the Catholic Church forbid membership).
Because of this, Venerable Michael J. McGivney, a diocesan priest assigned to a parish in Connecticut, was so distressed by all the poor widows and orphans asking him for money, especially since he was a poor priest himself, that he asked men to create a group where they could provide for each other’s families should the unthinkable happen. As such, a week later, in the basement of the parish, the first council of the Knights of Columbus was formed - and one of the first projects was the Knights of Columbus life insurance program. The primary mission of the Knights is to foster Catholic family life, and to provide for the widows and orphans of deceased Knights through the Life Insurance program (which is optional, but if a member is not insured through the Knights, the Knights cannot help the widows and orphans of the Knights).
B
baliano
Guest
Our council has a vibrant and growing young(er) membership. I actually feel pretty old at meeting and I’m only 71.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Yeah, most of us are well versed on how the kof c was started. But much like unions, for me it just does not resonate. I am a stay at home dad and my wife makes a decent salary, I have 5 kids and homeschool them. We live in a suburban home and have two cars. We are not really 1890 Irish Immigrants looking for work at the steel mills. Modern man has incredible challenges, we have lost our identity and the world tells us we are to be a certain way. I would be more impressed and inclined to join an organization that dealt with the spiritual and left the door to door salesman stuff out of it. kofc insurance is not really competitive with other major policy providers and it is not like we are facing the same discrimination as our ancestors. (though we may be soon)
Ill tell you that if they incorporated some sort of biblical education things would get more interesting. I have yet to meet a KofC knight in my area who has ever even read the Bible once.
The other thing, is if they let the younger members have swords and training on swordplay. I’d be first in line to sign up. Like an adult boy scouts!
Of course I was kidding but think about it. It would involve a physical sporting activity that men like and who knows, we may very well need a trained body to protect the Mass in the near future…
I am smiling envisioning a KofC flag football game. It is funny to picture but that is really part of the problem. It is funny because it does not attract men who want to be active and involved. To me it is much like “ushers” who just stand in the back of Church at Mass and belong to the grim good ol boys club.
(has anyone seen the Everybody Loves Raymond about that?)Grrr look at me, I said I didn’t want this to be a kof c thing and here I am ranting about it.
OP: this is the issue you should take from this. Not that KofC is bad, (it isnt) but male involvement in the Church is something that needs to be addressed and I dont think kofc is positioned to be able to address it. It is a relic of a time past, and we need leaders for the future.
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808Catholic
Guest
Incomplete or inadequate catechizing seems to be epidemic!
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808Catholic
Guest
Brother Knight,
The Fraternity/Council is what we put into it. The Council I started with is aging and has very few community service type projects so I volunteered to head up that committee. Turns out, even though we talk about the need to get out in force to help at various functions, the same 5 or 6 turn up. I’m busy starting up a new Council and this group of men seem more action oriented so I’m hopeful. Still, don’t give up; keep doing what is good for the Order and what honors God and it will all turn out fine.
P
powerofk
Guest
And see, the council where I’m a member is very active. We have a combo of older and younger men, and most of us are also lectors, EMHCs, and/or ushers. We do parking for our parish fiesta, along with Palm Sunday and Easter. We do blood drives 3 times a year and collect cans during Lent for our parish’s chapter of St. Vincent de Paul. We started giving out finger rosaries to all visitors to our most attended Mass. And our Grand Knight, Program Director, and a few others have a round-table with the pastor about 4 times a year to discuss activities. So pretty much, in my parish, the Knights do a lot of the driving of parish activities. But, honestly, each council is different - and it does depend a lot on how much the members are willing to do, and how much the pastor lets them do.Yeah, most of us are well versed on how the kof c was started. But much like unions, for me it just does not resonate. I am a stay at home dad and my wife makes a decent salary, I have 5 kids and homeschool them. We live in a suburban home and have two cars. We are not really 1890 Irish Immigrants looking for work at the steel mills. Modern man has incredible challenges, we have lost our identity and the world tells us we are to be a certain way. I would be more impressed and inclined to join an organization that dealt with the spiritual and left the door to door salesman stuff out of it. kofc insurance is not really competitive with other major policy providers and it is not like we are facing the same discrimination as our ancestors. (though we may be soon)
Ill tell you that if they incorporated some sort of biblical education things would get more interesting. I have yet to meet a KofC knight in my area who has ever even read the Bible once.
The other thing, is if they let the younger members have swords and training on swordplay. I’d be first in line to sign up. Like an adult boy scouts!
Of course I was kidding but think about it. It would involve a physical sporting activity that men like and who knows, we may very well need a trained body to protect the Mass in the near future…
I am smiling envisioning a KofC flag football game. It is funny to picture but that is really part of the problem. It is funny because it does not attract men who want to be active and involved. To me it is much like “ushers” who just stand in the back of Church at Mass and belong to the grim good ol boys club.
Grrr look at me, I said I didn’t want this to be a kof c thing and here I am ranting about it.
OP: this is the issue you should take from this. Not that KofC is bad, (it isnt) but male involvement in the Church is something that needs to be addressed and I dont think kofc is positioned to be able to address it. It is a relic of a time past, and we need leaders for the future.
Honestly, in general, the Knights do a lot of stuff behind the scenes. Part of the problem is more that, in many parishes, no one knows that what things the Knights helped with (but, mark my words, they probably helped pay for repairs to the church building or paid for supplies for the religious education program or bought Fr. a new riding lawnmower for the grounds). Part of the reason for this is that council meetings are closed meetings for Knights only. Believe me, Fr. knows what the Knights have paid for - it’s the rest of the parishioners who don’t.
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808Catholic
Guest
It’s good to remember, we Knights are not to reveal anything that occurs during ceremonies and business meetings. Service projects are open to friends and family and reporting on the Council activities can be done while still preserving the Oath. :knight1:
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Nothing regarding parish finances should be “behind the scenes” There needs to be a full and public accounting if a Church building gets fixed.
This is a problem with the Knights. What you have described is “chore doers” and that is not an adequate men’s program. This “secret” stuff is not only dangerous, but a huge turn off to those of us who wish to have something more than a secret handshake and a wink and a nod.
U
Usige
Guest
**1) If you’re a man, how are you involved in your parish and local Catholic community?
**
I do marriage prep and am an NFP trainer with my wife. I am semi active in the respect life committee. We are also working on setting up permanent Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration. Well there’s also the diaconate formation thing, but haven’t been accepted into aspirancy yet, so …
In the past I have been a high school catechist, EMHC, choir member, and lead papal encyclical studies. I have also gone through parts of That Man is You. I was inconsistent at TMiY because it is at 5:45 am and, well, to say I’m not a morning person would be a kindness.
On paper I am a 3rd degree Knight of Columbus, but given our council has been focused on fund raising and throwing lenten Friday parties (aka Fish Fries) I have not been active in the last 4 or 5 years. I joined to do service projects directly to those in need, not build the council fund to pay for stuff or to be the traffic cop on Easter. Not that these aren’t worthwhile, but I want something that is more direct. The few things I might be interested in (helping widows fix their homes, work at the soup kitchen, etc) are always scheduled for 10 am on a weekday. Great for retirees, not so great for those with jobs.
2) In addition to Mass attendance (bare minimum), what particular ministries or Catholic groups/organizations would you like to see more male involvement in?
In the liturgy, I would like to see more men as readers (currently about 1:5 male to female ratio). We have recently started to get Instituted Acolytes, but it would be great to see more men and older teen boys serving the altar.
I would also like to see a men’s Schola as an alternative to our choirs. The music chosen often doesn’t seem to attract men so perhaps a men’s choir would attract them more.
3) Expanding on the above, what opportunities for men are simply lacking in your area? Do you have any ideas for new ministries?
Opportunities for study and discussion. We have women’s bible studies, mom’s groups, ladies’ teas, etc. For men most of it seems to be TMiY at o’dark hundred or KofC which isn’t geared toward formation. The few general study opportunities (open to either sex) are all done in the middle of the day.
I would like to see more things like TMiY that help form men to be faithful Catholic husbands and fathers. Some might need to be focused on particular challenges for Catholic men (i.e. how to lead your family in prayer, raising your kids with morals in modern society, putting God before other idols like sports or work, etc).
You could also have something like a “buckets, brauts and bilbles” night that included dinner, prayer, and pickup basketball. In other words mix recreation with a place that men could discuss their faith.
**
4) Do you have any suggestions for improving the male-oriented groups that currently exist (parish men’s clubs, KofC, etc.)**
This is where things get trickier. What might improve things for one person might dissuade others.
For example we went camping with 6 or 7 other families last year. At meals most of the men hung around the grill, drinking beer and talking about the best way to cook the meat. I hate beer and as a vegetarian could careless about flipping burgers. I am also not as interested in a social group, so my above basketball night has no interest to me. On the other hand if you had something like scripture under the stars that combined star gazing and prayer I would be more likely to show up.
One of the dangers is in thinking that all men enjoy the same things. Ideally a parish would have activities that appeal to a broad range of personalities. Anything that involves back slapping and talking about sports is the first thing I would ignore.
5) Do you have any suggestions for encouraging or motivating men to get involved?
I think this is something we would need to see from the pulpit. I think there would need to be a concerted effort by the clergy to tell men “we want you be here.” I also think that many men would like to see Deacons and Priests involved in their activities. For what ever reason I tend to see more men involved when Father says he is leading stations than if a member of the laity is. Right or wrong, I think more men feel it is worthwhile if Father or a Deacon feels it is worthwhile.
**
6) Please add any other points that you think are helpful to this topic.**
One of the biggest detriments I find for many men is having the time available while working and taking care of their families. It would be helpful for things to be done in a more flexible way so that men felt like they could join when they are able. There are several things I would like to do, but I can’t always commit to a 26 week study or to be at the SVDP food pantry every week. I need things that I can either just show up to when I realize I have an hour or 2 free or that are in short blocks of a couple weeks at a time.
**
I do marriage prep and am an NFP trainer with my wife. I am semi active in the respect life committee. We are also working on setting up permanent Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration. Well there’s also the diaconate formation thing, but haven’t been accepted into aspirancy yet, so …
In the past I have been a high school catechist, EMHC, choir member, and lead papal encyclical studies. I have also gone through parts of That Man is You. I was inconsistent at TMiY because it is at 5:45 am and, well, to say I’m not a morning person would be a kindness.
On paper I am a 3rd degree Knight of Columbus, but given our council has been focused on fund raising and throwing lenten Friday parties (aka Fish Fries) I have not been active in the last 4 or 5 years. I joined to do service projects directly to those in need, not build the council fund to pay for stuff or to be the traffic cop on Easter. Not that these aren’t worthwhile, but I want something that is more direct. The few things I might be interested in (helping widows fix their homes, work at the soup kitchen, etc) are always scheduled for 10 am on a weekday. Great for retirees, not so great for those with jobs.
2) In addition to Mass attendance (bare minimum), what particular ministries or Catholic groups/organizations would you like to see more male involvement in?
In the liturgy, I would like to see more men as readers (currently about 1:5 male to female ratio). We have recently started to get Instituted Acolytes, but it would be great to see more men and older teen boys serving the altar.
I would also like to see a men’s Schola as an alternative to our choirs. The music chosen often doesn’t seem to attract men so perhaps a men’s choir would attract them more.
3) Expanding on the above, what opportunities for men are simply lacking in your area? Do you have any ideas for new ministries?
Opportunities for study and discussion. We have women’s bible studies, mom’s groups, ladies’ teas, etc. For men most of it seems to be TMiY at o’dark hundred or KofC which isn’t geared toward formation. The few general study opportunities (open to either sex) are all done in the middle of the day.
I would like to see more things like TMiY that help form men to be faithful Catholic husbands and fathers. Some might need to be focused on particular challenges for Catholic men (i.e. how to lead your family in prayer, raising your kids with morals in modern society, putting God before other idols like sports or work, etc).
You could also have something like a “buckets, brauts and bilbles” night that included dinner, prayer, and pickup basketball. In other words mix recreation with a place that men could discuss their faith.
**
4) Do you have any suggestions for improving the male-oriented groups that currently exist (parish men’s clubs, KofC, etc.)**
This is where things get trickier. What might improve things for one person might dissuade others.
For example we went camping with 6 or 7 other families last year. At meals most of the men hung around the grill, drinking beer and talking about the best way to cook the meat. I hate beer and as a vegetarian could careless about flipping burgers. I am also not as interested in a social group, so my above basketball night has no interest to me. On the other hand if you had something like scripture under the stars that combined star gazing and prayer I would be more likely to show up.
One of the dangers is in thinking that all men enjoy the same things. Ideally a parish would have activities that appeal to a broad range of personalities. Anything that involves back slapping and talking about sports is the first thing I would ignore.
5) Do you have any suggestions for encouraging or motivating men to get involved?
I think this is something we would need to see from the pulpit. I think there would need to be a concerted effort by the clergy to tell men “we want you be here.” I also think that many men would like to see Deacons and Priests involved in their activities. For what ever reason I tend to see more men involved when Father says he is leading stations than if a member of the laity is. Right or wrong, I think more men feel it is worthwhile if Father or a Deacon feels it is worthwhile.
**
6) Please add any other points that you think are helpful to this topic.**
One of the biggest detriments I find for many men is having the time available while working and taking care of their families. It would be helpful for things to be done in a more flexible way so that men felt like they could join when they are able. There are several things I would like to do, but I can’t always commit to a 26 week study or to be at the SVDP food pantry every week. I need things that I can either just show up to when I realize I have an hour or 2 free or that are in short blocks of a couple weeks at a time.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Wow! This is exactly my view as well. We need more formation. We are a Church of men without leaders. This is affecting families most of all.**1) If you’re a man, how are you involved in your parish and local Catholic community?
**
I do marriage prep and am an NFP trainer with my wife. I am semi active in the respect life committee. We are also working on setting up permanent Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration. Well there’s also the diaconate formation thing, but haven’t been accepted into aspirancy yet, so …
In the past I have been a high school catechist, EMHC, choir member, and lead papal encyclical studies. I have also gone through parts of That Man is You. I was inconsistent at TMiY because it is at 5:45 am and, well, to say I’m not a morning person would be a kindness.
On paper I am a 3rd degree Knight of Columbus, but given our council has been focused on fund raising and throwing lenten Friday parties (aka Fish Fries) I have not been active in the last 4 or 5 years. I joined to do service projects directly to those in need, not build the council fund to pay for stuff or to be the traffic cop on Easter. Not that these aren’t worthwhile, but I want something that is more direct. The few things I might be interested in (helping widows fix their homes, work at the soup kitchen, etc) are always scheduled for 10 am on a weekday. Great for retirees, not so great for those with jobs.
2) In addition to Mass attendance (bare minimum), what particular ministries or Catholic groups/organizations would you like to see more male involvement in?
In the liturgy, I would like to see more men as readers (currently about 1:5 male to female ratio). We have recently started to get Instituted Acolytes, but it would be great to see more men and older teen boys serving the altar.
I would also like to see a men’s Schola as an alternative to our choirs. The music chosen often doesn’t seem to attract men so perhaps a men’s choir would attract them more.
3) Expanding on the above, what opportunities for men are simply lacking in your area? Do you have any ideas for new ministries?
Opportunities for study and discussion. We have women’s bible studies, mom’s groups, ladies’ teas, etc. For men most of it seems to be TMiY at o’dark hundred or KofC which isn’t geared toward formation. The few general study opportunities (open to either sex) are all done in the middle of the day.
I would like to see more things like TMiY that help form men to be faithful Catholic husbands and fathers. Some might need to be focused on particular challenges for Catholic men (i.e. how to lead your family in prayer, raising your kids with morals in modern society, putting God before other idols like sports or work, etc).
You could also have something like a “buckets, brauts and bilbles” night that included dinner, prayer, and pickup basketball. In other words mix recreation with a place that men could discuss their faith.
**
4) Do you have any suggestions for improving the male-oriented groups that currently exist (parish men’s clubs, KofC, etc.)**
This is where things get trickier. What might improve things for one person might dissuade others.
For example we went camping with 6 or 7 other families last year. At meals most of the men hung around the grill, drinking beer and talking about the best way to cook the meat. I hate beer and as a vegetarian could careless about flipping burgers. I am also not as interested in a social group, so my above basketball night has no interest to me. On the other hand if you had something like scripture under the stars that combined star gazing and prayer I would be more likely to show up.
One of the dangers is in thinking that all men enjoy the same things. Ideally a parish would have activities that appeal to a broad range of personalities. Anything that involves back slapping and talking about sports is the first thing I would ignore.
5) Do you have any suggestions for encouraging or motivating men to get involved?
I think this is something we would need to see from the pulpit. I think there would need to be a concerted effort by the clergy to tell men “we want you be here.” I also think that many men would like to see Deacons and Priests involved in their activities. For what ever reason I tend to see more men involved when Father says he is leading stations than if a member of the laity is. Right or wrong, I think more men feel it is worthwhile if Father or a Deacon feels it is worthwhile.
**
6) Please add any other points that you think are helpful to this topic.**
One of the biggest detriments I find for many men is having the time available while working and taking care of their families. It would be helpful for things to be done in a more flexible way so that men felt like they could join when they are able. There are several things I would like to do, but I can’t always commit to a 26 week study or to be at the SVDP food pantry every week. I need things that I can either just show up to when I realize I have an hour or 2 free or that are in short blocks of a couple weeks at a time.
- Status