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Spiller
Guest
Perfect. I can’t really say I have ever met a priest or deacon that did not serve…
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Spiller
Guest
It’s interesting…
Most people who post on CA forums seem to be fairly orthodox in their Catholicism. Yet when it comes to the “women’s role in the Church”, many (certainly not all) bets are off.
I have a difficult time relating with thet sexism/feminism agenda – overt or covert, that seems like it will do just about anything to move its agenda “forward” – including ignoring the Church or failing to do what’s best for the Church.
Fairly remarkable…
Most people who post on CA forums seem to be fairly orthodox in their Catholicism. Yet when it comes to the “women’s role in the Church”, many (certainly not all) bets are off.
I have a difficult time relating with thet sexism/feminism agenda – overt or covert, that seems like it will do just about anything to move its agenda “forward” – including ignoring the Church or failing to do what’s best for the Church.
Fairly remarkable…
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agr4028
Guest
But what about a survey of all altar boys who did NOT become priests? Perhaps that would be MORE telling?
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MusicMan
Guest
I suspect that you will not find a priest or deacon who did not serve as an altar boy. However, you cannot assume that just because they served means that it was the reason why they chose to become clergy.
I was an altar boy for many years. I considered the priesthood in college. Being an altar boy was not a motivator for considering the priesthood.
I am now debating whether or not I am called to the diaconate. Being a former server isn’t a reason why I am considering such a call.
If I become a deacon, it will be in bounds to say that I was once a server. But, it would not be the reason why I chose the diaconate.
I was an altar boy for many years. I considered the priesthood in college. Being an altar boy was not a motivator for considering the priesthood.
I am now debating whether or not I am called to the diaconate. Being a former server isn’t a reason why I am considering such a call.
If I become a deacon, it will be in bounds to say that I was once a server. But, it would not be the reason why I chose the diaconate.
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mikew262
Guest
Huh? Where in the world did you hear that? Source please.
There are probably a variety of reasons why the priest population has dwindled, and while this may have mildly contributed, I don’t thinks its a major cause by any stretch.
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mikew262
Guest
I think for the most part, that is pure baloney. While, I’m sure there are a few who may promote the female priest agenda by encouraging girls to be alter servers, I think that is way the exception and not the rule.
In my parish, we have probably a 50/50 ratio girls and boys being alter servers and there is no agenda that I’m aware of in my parish. We’ve had this discussion before. Why can’t you accept the fact that maybe the girl enjoys serving her church in this fashion, and quit trying make more of it than it is. Sheesh!!! :banghead:
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Lepanto
Guest
Most agendas are not posted on the bulletin board.
But I agree, there need not be an overt agenda in most cases anyways. There needn’t be, because the subtle shifts in peoples demands and expectations are enough to make the changes. Need proof? Twenty years ago there were no such things as altar girls, and only the rabid feminists would have even considered such a thing. Now, altar girls are commonplace, so much so that they are considered an entitlement.
What was once unthinkable becomes, over time and subtly, the norm and the expectation. This is called incrementalism.
Now that girls are regularly serving as altar girls, what’s the next logical leap? The diaconate, of course. And if you think that is ridiculous, there was a time not that long ago when the words “altar girls” would have been seen as oxymoronic as “gay marriage”.
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Spiller
Guest
Not one person has claimed that in this discussion. Not a SINGLE ONE! And I hope no one has become a priest because he served as an altar boy. I hope they all became priests because they answered a call from God.
Talk about obfuscation. I said it fosters vocations to the priesthood and permanent diaconate.
**fos·ter **
**1. To bring up; nurture: bear and foster offspring. See Synonyms at nurture.
2. To promote the growth and development of; cultivate: detect and foster artistic talent. See Synonyms at advance.
3. To nurse; cherish: foster a secret hope.
**
I just looked back on posting #17. Absolutely sublime. It’s religious sisters that would often identify boys in the past who just might have a vocation and prime candidates for serving at the altar in the past. It made a huge difference…
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Spiller
Guest
It will be fascinating to see if Pope Benedict XVI release an “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis” of sorts for the diaconate…
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MusicMan
Guest
I believe my point was that although I was an altar boy, serving did not foster a vocation in me. But hey, I always love to see a Spiller post where you feel the need to talk down to people!
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Spiller
Guest
Then say that. Here is what you typed:I believe my point was that although I was an altar boy, serving did not foster a vocation in me. But hey, I always love to see a Spiller post where you feel the need to talk down to people!
“…However, you cannot assume that just because they served means that it was the reason why they chose to become clergy…”
No one even hinted at that. I didn’t “talk down” to anyone – I just didn’t want you to infer that someone had suggested what you typed.
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MusicMan
Guest
Reread your thread title, Mr. Webster, and then get back to me.
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zagjames
Guest
From what I have heard the largest motivating factor in getting young men to consider the priesthood is by having a priest ask them. So where is a great place for a Pastor to get to know the young men in his parish and nourish what he sees as possible vocations… the altar boys!
I know a seminarian who never served until he entered the seminary. I have heard of Priests who never served.
Does serving foster vocations… undoubtable
Is it necessary to have vocations… no
But with all the distractions in our world today giving young men this added oppritunity to help them discern is a good thing not bad!
I believe it should be only male altar servers. But I wont die if there are none. It still bugs me though when the Pastor is flocked by 3 altar girls and he is the lone guy in the sanctuary. It just inst koesher…
I know a seminarian who never served until he entered the seminary. I have heard of Priests who never served.
Does serving foster vocations… undoubtable
Is it necessary to have vocations… no
But with all the distractions in our world today giving young men this added oppritunity to help them discern is a good thing not bad!
I believe it should be only male altar servers. But I wont die if there are none. It still bugs me though when the Pastor is flocked by 3 altar girls and he is the lone guy in the sanctuary. It just inst koesher…
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Lovemyfaith
Guest
One of my favorite priests actually was a convert, and went through RCIA program when he was in college (before he entered the seminary). He was not an altar server. In fact thinking about it off the top of my head, most of the priests I am friends with had a relative who was either a priest or nun, or at least a good friend of the family who encouraged that vocation to the priesthood.
I read about these strong altar server programs that are male only with the wonderful numbers in vocations to religious life, but remember these are typically parishes people attend not just because they are the local parish but because they want that type of relgious experience. There is no such thing as a typical parish in my diocese; it is way too big, but in general there are too many other issues the priests are dealing with to worry about starting a strong altar server program. Our newspaper once had a wedding announcement (for a couple married in a catholic church) where the father of the bride knew the groom was a gentleman as he asked permission for the daughter to move in with him over a year before they were engaged.
I read about these strong altar server programs that are male only with the wonderful numbers in vocations to religious life, but remember these are typically parishes people attend not just because they are the local parish but because they want that type of relgious experience. There is no such thing as a typical parish in my diocese; it is way too big, but in general there are too many other issues the priests are dealing with to worry about starting a strong altar server program. Our newspaper once had a wedding announcement (for a couple married in a catholic church) where the father of the bride knew the groom was a gentleman as he asked permission for the daughter to move in with him over a year before they were engaged.
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PatrickJT914
Guest
Before I begin, let say I don’t believe in women becoming priests. Not because of the usual agruments: Jesus only called men, its not traditional, etc. I’m against women becoming priests for more practical reasons: What we call them? Fathers?( Isn’t that sexist?) Priestesses? (Wouldn’t that sound like a pagan religion?),
Parsons? (Too Protestant sounding and the word SONS, is sexist), Pastors? (Not all priests are Pastors), Roman collar wearer? (NO WAY!,), Blackshirt? (Thats an article of clothing, and
besides not all priests wear black only. There is a variety of color now) Hey, you female person dressed in the chasibule (NO WAY!)
I know its starting to ridiculus, but I couldn’t help it. Now back to the other reasons; Where are we going to house them? In the Rectory? ( A human male & a human female living together can and does create some sexual desires, temptations, pressures), What if, the female priest becomes pregnant, from the male priest? Who’s going to pay for the baby, until its 18th b-day? (Wait
let me guess, THE CHURCH!), What if the female priest also decides to sue for child support? What scandal it will cause. What
we don’t have enough historical and current problems to live down.
Like I said earlier that I’m against women being priests. However, let’s be fair. I’ve seen women perform ministry in the Church quite well indeed. I’ve seen female altar servers do their function just as good as the boys, sometimes even better. But let me get this straight. If it’s not okay for females to become altar servers. Without sounding sexist, isn’t it been a traditional role of women to serve at table? (And isn’t serving the altar, also serving at The Table of the Lord?) So, what’s the problem again? It should not make alot of difference if boys and girls get the same training.
In my parish I haven’t heard anything from our Life Teen Mass female Altar Servers about wanting to aspire to become priests. Some Masses are all guys,some all girls and some a mixture. In fact the 4 young men who are considering the priesthood are at times Altar Servers. I myself considered being a priest when I was
about 10 years old and I was never an altar server as a boy. When
I was a young adult serving another Mass as either a Lector or as
a EMHC, sometimes there wouldn’t be an Altar Server. So, I had to perform those duties as well. Serving did not really revive my earlier desires to be a priest. However, I have thought on time to time about becoming a Permanent Deacon. But not because of doing the duties of an altar server a few times.
Parsons? (Too Protestant sounding and the word SONS, is sexist), Pastors? (Not all priests are Pastors), Roman collar wearer? (NO WAY!,), Blackshirt? (Thats an article of clothing, and
besides not all priests wear black only. There is a variety of color now) Hey, you female person dressed in the chasibule (NO WAY!)
I know its starting to ridiculus, but I couldn’t help it. Now back to the other reasons; Where are we going to house them? In the Rectory? ( A human male & a human female living together can and does create some sexual desires, temptations, pressures), What if, the female priest becomes pregnant, from the male priest? Who’s going to pay for the baby, until its 18th b-day? (Wait
let me guess, THE CHURCH!), What if the female priest also decides to sue for child support? What scandal it will cause. What
we don’t have enough historical and current problems to live down.
Like I said earlier that I’m against women being priests. However, let’s be fair. I’ve seen women perform ministry in the Church quite well indeed. I’ve seen female altar servers do their function just as good as the boys, sometimes even better. But let me get this straight. If it’s not okay for females to become altar servers. Without sounding sexist, isn’t it been a traditional role of women to serve at table? (And isn’t serving the altar, also serving at The Table of the Lord?) So, what’s the problem again? It should not make alot of difference if boys and girls get the same training.
In my parish I haven’t heard anything from our Life Teen Mass female Altar Servers about wanting to aspire to become priests. Some Masses are all guys,some all girls and some a mixture. In fact the 4 young men who are considering the priesthood are at times Altar Servers. I myself considered being a priest when I was
about 10 years old and I was never an altar server as a boy. When
I was a young adult serving another Mass as either a Lector or as
a EMHC, sometimes there wouldn’t be an Altar Server. So, I had to perform those duties as well. Serving did not really revive my earlier desires to be a priest. However, I have thought on time to time about becoming a Permanent Deacon. But not because of doing the duties of an altar server a few times.
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Spiller
Guest
Seems like more than a few feel that way. Then again vocations have been ignored for years…
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agr4028
Guest
For those who truly believe that being an altar server leads to vocations…isn’t it a little underhanded and self-serving to surreptitiously push a kid toward the priesthood by signing them up as altar servers?
Actually, I find it a tad hypocritical.
Actually, I find it a tad hypocritical.
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snhs
Guest
Is that in that underhand in the same way that someone might suggest a boy join a youth sports team or the fire cadets. Almost all activities children do are directly or indirectly linked to a valid profession does that mean encouraging them to do anything is hypocritical? After all the next time you suggest a child read a certain book you could be pushing them into being an author and what a dreadful thing that would be.For those who truly believe that being an altar server leads to vocations…isn’t it a little underhanded and self-serving to surreptitiously push a kid toward the priesthood by signing them up as altar servers?
Actually, I find it a tad hypocritical.
The only thing hypocritical about this is that you and others expect the Church to provide services which need Priests and then fail to encourage children in exploring the possibility. After all not every boy that plays football when they’re younger is going to become a professional or be the next Pele but it doesn’t stop people encouraging them to play.
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Spiller
Guest
Why “hypocritical?” How does hypocrisy apply in this case?For those who truly believe that being an altar server leads to vocations…isn’t it a little underhanded and self-serving to surreptitiously push a kid toward the priesthood by signing them up as altar servers?
Actually, I find it a tad hypocritical.
The key is first to identify and then support those boys who might just have a vocation. It’s not at all about “pushing” as one cannot become a priest without a vocation from God. You entered the term “pushing” into this discourse and it does not belong.
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ElizaCatherine
Guest
I know this is off topic, but if you were from Nebraska (which I am) this would have an entirely different connotation to it.
Go Huskers!
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