Malone calls on fellow bishops to oppose ‘Fifty Shades’ film

[Timothysis]

We are to the point in this debate where I get the distinct impression you simply do not want to accept any thoughts on this subject in terms of it being objectionable material for a myriad of reasons.You are coming across as a moral relativist.If that is the case,we are beating a dead horse. I have nothing more to say.I have laid out my case both personally as re the Church’s stance on immoral books,movies.Now it is up to you to open your mind and will to these facts.

All you have told me is that your friend has told you that a certain book is “trash” or “garbage” and you condemn it sight unseen. As I have said so many times before, you are free to condemn and criticize anything as long as you have read it! It is the height of intellectual simplicity to condemn things that you have not experienced. How many times have we read here on CAF of a non Catholic who ended up going to Mass and discovering that it was nothing like they were told it would be? It is the exact same thing. Is this book objectionable? I don’t know because I haven’t read it but the funny thing is that you don’t know either! And you think I’m a moral relativist because I don’t take your friend’s word for it? Jeepers creepers. Are you really so afraid of something as stupid and insignificant as this book? Can you not react as a mature adult in dealing with the subject or is it necessary to have a knee-jerk reaction to flee to someone who can do your thinking for you?

 

[Timothysis]

Are you really arguing that one would have to see the entire series of something like Hot Young College Girls volumes 1-36, before being able to say with any authority or certainty that it’s pornography?

No, I didn’t say that at all. What I said, is that one should at least have some experience with the topic at hand before they try to speak with authority on it. Is that really such a radical concept for members here?

 

[Jon_Mallory]

It would seem to be a bit contrary in any intellectual discussion for you to condemn something, even a “porn flick,” without having seen it. If you wish to speak intelligently about a subject, you must have some intelligence of the subject

I think you are taking the cry “to the source!” too far. Certainly, one has to read a piece of academic literature before she/he can criticize it and even some works of fiction. A “porn flick” fits neither categories because its intent is already laid bare–to titillate and stimulate. Hence, you already know its bad before you watch it and can justly criticize it without watching it. When your child sees a porn mag at a convenience store, no self-respecting father would say, “you can buy it but please keep an open mind while reading it before judging whether it is good or bad”.

Point being: porn isn’t academic literature…

 

[DeniseNY]

Hmm…

**Originally Posted by zz912 **
Do I need to watch every porn flick to be able to form an opinion about a particular porn flick?!?!?! Of course not.

Originally Posted byTimothysis
It would seem to be a bit contrary in any intellectual discussion for you to condemn something, even a “porn flick,” without having seen it. If you wish to speak intelligently about a subject, you must have some intelligence of the subject.

 

[Timothysis]

I think you are taking the cry “to the source!” too far. Certainly, one has to read a piece of academic literature before she/he can criticize it and even some works of fiction. A “porn flick” fits neither categories because its intent is already laid bare–to titillate and stimulate. Hence, you already know its bad before you watch it and can justly criticize it without watching it. When your child sees a porn mag at a convenience store, no self-respecting father would say, “you can buy it but please keep an open mind while reading it before judging whether it is good or bad”.

Point being: porn isn’t academic literature…

Point being; if one has never experienced porn, it serves little to advance the discussion when it is condemned sight unseen. My question is about the legitimacy of condemning something as indecent, immoral, or “trash…garbage…filth” without having seen or read it. Your statement, "Certainly, one has to read a piece of academic literature before she/he can criticize it and even some works of fiction" nicely sums up my position.

 

[Timothysis]

Hmm…

If one has never seen such a “flick,” then how can one intelligently condemn it? Allow me to quote myself; "If you wish to speak intelligently about a subject, you must have some intelligence of the subject."

 

[Wampa]

Whatever happened to the Legion of Decency, which guided us in the movie department?

This is the best guide we have now (at least that I am aware of).

“Movie reviews by Catholic News Service and the former Office for Film and Broadcasting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops”: catholicnews.com/movies.htm

It doesn’t look like they’ve reviewed 50 Shades yet.

 

[pnewton]

This is the best guide we have now (at least that I am aware of).

“Movie reviews by Catholic News Service and the former Office for Film and Broadcasting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops”: catholicnews.com/movies.htm

It doesn’t look like they’ve reviewed 50 Shades yet.

I use this site when I am on the fence about a movie I want to see. I sure don’t need it for this flick.

 

[Tigg]

On Sunday, our pastor told us during the homily, if you have bought the book, burn it, and if you have plans to see the movie…change them.

 

[Tigg]

I wonder how many here who criticize the book have actually read it?

The last thing we need is for our Church leaders bringing attention to it. Don’t they ever learn? If you leave it alone, it will quickly fade away. Make a stink about it and it will only help sell more tickets.

So let’s see here…even though this film could present a moral danger to the flock, the shepherds should not warn of the hazard? It does not take intelligence to discern impurity and temptation, but an inclination to practice virtue and avoid the near occasion of sin.

 

[Havard]

If one has never seen such a “flick,” then how can one intelligently condemn it? Allow me to quote myself; "If you wish to speak intelligently about a subject, you must have some intelligence of the subject."

I’ve read it. It’s terrible on so. Many. Levels. Want me to go into details? I could write an entire book myself just on about how bad FSOG is.

People here, especially people who are sensitive about sex and violence, should not have to read or watch it to know it’s bad. There are more than enough reviews that explain how it is morally objectionable.

I only read the piece of garbage to gain a better understanding of why it’s such a sensation. And you know what my conclusion was? Our society is dysfunctional. It’s the only logical explanation. Nothing this sophomoric, this poorly researched, this poorly written, this emotionally stunted, this psychologically wrecked, could gain meteoric popularity without a societal-level dysfunction.

Please let me know if you need me to go on, about any aspect of how bad FSOG is.

 

[Timothysis]

I’ve read it. It’s terrible on so. Many. Levels. Want me to go into details? I could write an entire book myself just on about how bad FSOG is.

The fact that you’ve actually read the book gives you the right to criticize and condemn it. I don’t have a problem with that. As I said before, is it really such a radical idea that someone should read something before they call it “trash” and “garbage” and disparage everything about it.

To tell you the truth, I don’t have an idea what the book is about but I do know that there are many celebrated works, The Bridges of Madison County comes to mind, that deal with subject matters that people here deem to be morally objectionable. Should we also include murder mysteries on the list? What about westerns where we cheer on the bad guy? Just how far are we supposed to go in condemning a work because it has elements that we define as morally objectionable?

I only read the piece of garbage to gain a better understanding of why it’s such a sensation.

And did it cause you to turn to a life of sin?

And you know what my conclusion was? Our society is dysfunctional. It’s the only logical explanation. Nothing this sophomoric, this poorly researched, this poorly written, this emotionally stunted, this psychologically wrecked, could gain meteoric popularity without a societal-level dysfunction.

The same could be said about the song Louie Louie or the “classic” tv show Leave It To Beaver or any number of examples from popular culture.

Please let me know if you need me to go on, about any aspect of how bad FSOG is.

My position all along has never been one to defend the book from bad reviews or criticism but to highlight the lack of intellectualism in condemning something that so many posters haven’t even read (and relying on a good friend’s opinion, even though she’s a “good” Catholic doesn’t suffice). Why this is so radical to people here is beyond me. I suppose that it isn’t surprising since this forum has turned in to little more than people asking if everything they do is a sin or whether World War II was a “just” war. Even during the days of the Index of Forbidden Books you could be assured that if something was placed on the list, the proper authorities at least had the intellectual wherewithal to have actually read and researched the book in question before condemning it, something that seems to be anathema to so many here. If that position offends any here, then I sincerely apologize but I also shake my head while doing it.

 

[Timothysis]

So let’s see here…even though this film could present a moral danger to the flock, the shepherds should not warn of the hazard? It does not take intelligence to discern impurity and temptation, but an inclination to practice virtue and avoid the near occasion of sin.

Any time the Church comes out full force against a movie or anything related to popular culture, it only serves to cause people who, otherwise wouldn’t have gone to see it, to come out in droves. Billy Joel said that when he released the single Only The Good Die Young, it peaked at 63 on the charts and started to fall until a Catholic bishop started calling for the song to be banned. And do you know what happened? It went all the way to number 1.

Do you not also think that our shepherds should also warn us about using the internet, since it too can present a “moral danger to the flock?” I can promise you that you can find things on the internet that make 50 Shades of Grey look like a children’s book.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

This is the best guide we have now (at least that I am aware of).

“Movie reviews by Catholic News Service and the former Office for Film and Broadcasting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops”: catholicnews.com/movies.htm

It doesn’t look like they’ve reviewed 50 Shades yet.

No one, to my understanding has been able to review it. Normally, film companies have screenings for the press before the opening date. When they don’t, it usually means they don’t consider it that good, and don’t want negative reviews.

I would expect it to get an “O” rating.

Sadly, there are frequently a number of “O” rated films. This one should just be added to the list.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

If one has never seen such a “flick,” then how can one intelligently condemn it? Allow me to quote myself; "If you wish to speak intelligently about a subject, you must have some intelligence of the subject."

The film makers are not hiding the fact that the film contains a number of graphic sex scenes. Catholic teaching is pretty clear that we should avoid these type of things.

I don’t need to see it to judge that a graphic sex scene is graphic. I’ll take the film maker’s word.

 

[zz912]

No, I didn’t say that at all. What I said, is that one should at least have some experience with the topic at hand before they try to speak with authority on it. Is that really such a radical concept for members here?

Is someone on here who hasn’t read the book been claiming to be an expert on the book?

You can rightly condemn something that is graphically sexual and morally depraved, when even the supporters of the book agree that the book is exactly that.

I’ve never seen an episode of the tv show The Walking Dead. Are you seriously arguing that I can’t make a statement about the show along the lines of “the show is about zombies”??? EVERYONE acknowledges the show is about that.

The same with this book. EVERYONE acknowledges the book is about BDSM, sex, and morally depraved actions. I have YET to hear ONE person claim this book is a good or even marginal piece of literature. So why are you trying to claim that Christians can’t declare the book and movie are bad, and sinful for people to watch/read?!?!?!?!

They aren’t claiming to give an analysis of the book. They are taking at face value what EVERYONE admits about the book. It is morally dangerous and objectionable. There is no need to go further and put yourself into a sinful situation by reading it or watching the movie.

 

[zz912]

My position all along has never been one to defend the book from bad reviews or criticism but to highlight the lack of intellectualism in condemning something that so many posters haven’t even read (and relying on a good friend’s opinion, even though she’s a “good” Catholic doesn’t suffice). Why this is so radical to people here is beyond me. I suppose that it isn’t surprising since this forum has turned in to little more than people asking if everything they do is a sin or whether World War II was a “just” war. Even during the days of the Index of Forbidden Books you could be assured that if something was placed on the list, the proper authorities at least had the intellectual wherewithal to have actually read and researched the book in question before condemning it, something that seems to be anathema to so many here. If that position offends any here, then I sincerely apologize but I also shake my head while doing it.

How “intellectual” do you need to be to decide if porn is not worth watching or reading? How “intellectual” do you need to be to decide that watching or reading porn is sinful and dangerous?

 

[Wampa]

zz912 hit the nail on the head in #75.

Any time the Church comes out full force against a movie or anything related to popular culture, it only serves to cause people who, otherwise wouldn’t have gone to see it, to come out in droves. Billy Joel said that when he released the single Only The Good Die Young, it peaked at 63 on the charts and started to fall until a Catholic bishop started calling for the song to be banned. And do you know what happened? It went all the way to number 1.

Who’s coming out “in full force” here? In the Billy Joel instance, that was Church authorities trying to stop the larger society from hearing it (they were getting radio stations to ban it). Here, Bishop Malone is asking his fellow bishops to warn their flock (usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/upload/Malone-to-Bishops-Fifty-Shades-of-Grey-2-4-15.pdf).

Here’s the specific action he’s calling for from the bishops: “This is an opportunity for us to remind the faithful of the beauty of the Church’s teaching on the gift of sexual intimacy in marriage, the great dignity of women, and the moral reprehensibility of all domestic violence and sexual exploitation.”

They are not going out and protesting/banning it for the larger secular society. If they were, you might have a point.

 

[Sarcelle]

It depends on any given individual to exercise discernment on what they want to read to watch. If they decide if FSOG is not worth reading, it is up to them. Who cares what some random person on the internet thinks about it?

I have decides not to read or watch FSOG based on what others who have read it have told me. So Timothysis says my objection is not good enough or intellectual enough. Honestly, I don’t care.

 

[Tigg]

Any time the Church comes out full force against a movie or anything related to popular culture, it only serves to cause people who, otherwise wouldn’t have gone to see it, to come out in droves.

Which proves nothing…except that human nature is fallen and weak and perverse.