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Timothysis
Guest
You should have a brilliant future as an editor.Yeah.
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Timothysis
Guest
Then where does The Arabian Nights fall on your strata of academic literature?50 shades of grey isn’t a piece of academic literature so it don’t merit the same privileges as academic literature. By academic literature, I mean what can be found in respected academic journals or books written within certain intellectually respected genres such as philosophy, history, etc. 50 Shades of Grey falls within the genre of erotica. Its porn.
And erotica and porn are two very different things. If they were the same, then many a world museum would be deemed to be an exhibit for porn.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
Time to bring out the dead horse…
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Timothysis
Guest
You can’t see the trees for the forest, can you?
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Timothysis
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What would be your response to someone who has never been exposed to the Bible and said that they weren’t interested in it because they heard it was full of murder, rape, killing and incest?
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Prodigal_40s
Guest
I think Jeanne has a point about watching anything that endorses promiscuity and Tim’s view that an accurate assessment can’t be given without reading it in its entirety has some substance. I think the focus of Bishops should be on more immediate and glaring concerns though. I haven’t seen a popular “sexy” mainstream film yet that has any real value apart from coma inducement
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Jeanne_S
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This has evolved into a very banal debate.I see no point in continuing it.
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Jeanne_S
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One last comment…now you are really sounding desperate! Time to wrap it up already!
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zz912
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I don’t need to go into the nuance of porn. Porn is trash, and FSOG is porn.
This silly notion that you need to read or watch porn to be able to accurately describe it as trash is preposterous. Common sense and wisdom would do wonders to clear up this issue.
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zz912
Guest
Underhanded insults won’t get you far on this message board. Could you detail out exactly how much one should know about porn before you can condemn it? Do you have to watch every single porn flick ever filmed? Or is simply taking the producer’s word for what they made sufficient?
Please give an example of anyone who claims FSOG is an actual decent literary work, with substance to the book. Even those who like the book and support it are intellectually honest enough to admit that it’s merely sexual eroticism and more sex.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
The only thing wrong with this film are the people who watch it. It’s smut! It is pigs food! It will stain the soul! But people will flock to it and suffer the consequences. The people who watch this film are in need of spiritual healing. As has happened to me while watching smutty films, I pray that the moviegoers see the light of righteousness and seek forgiveness from God for the perversions that they harbor.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Has anyone here said that it is the worst moral outrage of the day?
You seem to be hellbent on seeing the rest of us here as stupid.
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Timothysis
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And then we have…
Really? So you can’t defend murder, rape, incest and killing in the Bible? Or are you saying that one needs to look at things in the whole in order to make an accurate assessment about it?
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Timothysis
Guest
To read some of the postings in this thread, yes, I think several people consider this the “worst moral outrage of the day.”
If someone were to tell me that they were going to write a book about Jesus and rely on secondhand interpretations and the personal opinions of others, then I would not think that book would be of much value. The same can be said for critical reviews of books, movies, music, art or anything that the writer has not experienced.
The Fox news “religion correspondent” Lauren Greene interviewed Reza Aslan about his new book Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. Her first question was *“You’re a Muslim, so why did you write a book about the founder of Christianity?” * And this continues for 10 minutes. It was obvious that she did not read the book, as she was constantly reading her notes while he was speaking and kept asking questions based on what other people said. Do you think that I am mistaken in thinking that what she did was intellectually bankrupt and, to use your word, stupid? I’ll let you decide:
slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/28/video_fox_news_lauren_green_asks_reza_aslan_why_muslim_would_be_interested.html
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Joe_5859
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I didn’t read the whole thread. I just skimmed it enough to realize that Timothysis really likes 50 Shades for some reason. But I think I caught enough tidbits to declare myself an expert on this particular thread. Kidding, Tim! 
I just want to point out that the headline that serves as the thread title is a tad misleading. If you read Bishop Malone’s letter, he’s not calling for explicit “opposition” such as a boycott. He is simply (in lieu of his position as Chairman of the Committee on Laity, Marriage, Family Life and Youth) drawing the other bishops’ attention to this cultural phenomenon that presents a skewed view of sex and marriage and encouraging his brother bishops to utilize the opportunity to remind their flocks about the truth and beauty of Catholic teaching in this area.
Note that he does not say, “Bishops, I think you need to put out press releases denouncing the movie and calling for the Catholics of your diocese to boycott this movie!” No, he is taking the positive approach. The thing is already a cultural phenomenon. So we Catholics should be ready to discuss the issues it raises in ways that upholds rather than distorts the truth. That’s exactly the approach I’d expect a bishop in his position to take.
As an aside, in general, I agree that we ought to be informed before forcefully stating our opinions on something, but that can be taken too far. I never read “The DaVinci Code” either. But I have read enough about it to know that it makes certain claims about Jesus. And, sure, the author and fans of the book can always say “It’s just fiction.” But that doesn’t mean I won’t seize the opportunity to explain the truth about who Jesus is and why the claims of the book (if someone were to take them seriously) are wrong.
If something is not disputed, it’s hard to say that first-hand knowledge is required before offering an opinion. I would feel very confident in claiming that Dan Brown got his historical facts wrong based on the other reading I have done. But I refrain from insults like saying he is a hack writer who can only write flat, one-dimensional characters. I would need to read the book myself to assert that as fact because I have read conflicting reports about his skill as an author.
Same with 50 Shades. I don’t need to read it to know that it is not something good to read. All the evidence points in that direction. I’ll still refrain from calling her a hack writer even though, honestly, I have not heard any conflicting reports about that. Anything I have ever seen about the book admits that it is not well-written.
I just want to point out that the headline that serves as the thread title is a tad misleading. If you read Bishop Malone’s letter, he’s not calling for explicit “opposition” such as a boycott. He is simply (in lieu of his position as Chairman of the Committee on Laity, Marriage, Family Life and Youth) drawing the other bishops’ attention to this cultural phenomenon that presents a skewed view of sex and marriage and encouraging his brother bishops to utilize the opportunity to remind their flocks about the truth and beauty of Catholic teaching in this area.
Note that he does not say, “Bishops, I think you need to put out press releases denouncing the movie and calling for the Catholics of your diocese to boycott this movie!” No, he is taking the positive approach. The thing is already a cultural phenomenon. So we Catholics should be ready to discuss the issues it raises in ways that upholds rather than distorts the truth. That’s exactly the approach I’d expect a bishop in his position to take.
As an aside, in general, I agree that we ought to be informed before forcefully stating our opinions on something, but that can be taken too far. I never read “The DaVinci Code” either. But I have read enough about it to know that it makes certain claims about Jesus. And, sure, the author and fans of the book can always say “It’s just fiction.” But that doesn’t mean I won’t seize the opportunity to explain the truth about who Jesus is and why the claims of the book (if someone were to take them seriously) are wrong.
If something is not disputed, it’s hard to say that first-hand knowledge is required before offering an opinion. I would feel very confident in claiming that Dan Brown got his historical facts wrong based on the other reading I have done. But I refrain from insults like saying he is a hack writer who can only write flat, one-dimensional characters. I would need to read the book myself to assert that as fact because I have read conflicting reports about his skill as an author.
Same with 50 Shades. I don’t need to read it to know that it is not something good to read. All the evidence points in that direction. I’ll still refrain from calling her a hack writer even though, honestly, I have not heard any conflicting reports about that. Anything I have ever seen about the book admits that it is not well-written.
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Timothysis
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Oh, for goodness sake. Are you the sole authority on what is and isn’t an “actual decent literary work?” There was a time when Chaucer, Whitman, even parts of Shakespeare that were considered indecent. And for your information, eroticism has been around for quite a while and can be found in many “actual decent literary works.” In case you don’t know, porn and eroticism are two completely different genres, one of which has been accepted in literary works.
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Timothysis
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:doh2:I didn’t read the whole thread. I just skimmed it enough to realize that Timothysis really likes 50 Shades for some reason. But I think I caught enough tidbits to declare myself an expert on this particular thread. Kidding, Tim!
:bowdown2:
And that is all that I am asking, a little intellectual honesty instead of useless comments like
" It’s smut! It is pigs food!" Does a comment like that really advance the conversation?
BTW, I never said I liked the book. I haven’t read it, don’t plan to and know very little about it. After 8 pages of this thread I can honestly say that I still don’t have an idea of what it is about.
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Timothysis
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:doh2:
:bowdown2:
And that is all that I am asking, a little intellectual honesty instead of useless comments like
" It’s smut! It is pigs food!" Does a comment like that really advance the conversation?
BTW, I never said I liked the book. I haven’t read it, don’t plan to and know very little about it. After 8 pages of this thread I can honestly say that I still don’t have an idea of what it is about.
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Timothysis
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The “silly notion” is labeling something as trash that you cannot competently discuss because you haven’t read, watched, listened to or experienced it firsthand.
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Orogeny
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Well, I too have skimmed this thread and I must say that while I understand your point, I don’t understand your insistence that one has to read the books to make an intellectually honest comment about them. One is always better off, when writing a critique, having read the publication being discussed. However, when the content of that book is well known, actual reading isn’t necessary for criticism. In the case of this trilogy, the subject of the books is well known and, I must say, celebrated. I don’t have to read the books to know that they are about sado-masochism; therefore, I can comment, intelligently, on the books.
One doesn’t have to experience something to have a well-formed opinion. I have never experienced S/M, but it is something that is clearly disordered. I have never read Mein Kampf, but I know that it promotes an evil that the world is still suffering from. I have never read St. Augustine’s “City of God”, but I know that it is a great and important book about the faith.
I think that your point was made very early in this thread and perhaps you should have let it go at that point. Just my opinion.
Peace
Tim
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