Man screams abuse at Pope Benedict XVI

[Zatzat]

To me this man is just some anti Catholic taking advantage of the situation of the Church to show his bigotry and disrespect.

Perhaps he’s mentally ill, suffering from PTSD or a past victim sexual abuse from within the Church? Why are you so quick to condemn him as an anti-Catholic and bigoted man?

soon her enemies will be gone and she will stand again and again and again for the Glory of her Master.

You’ve peaked my curiosity, where are the Church’s enemies going?

 

[Soutane]

Perhaps he’s none of the above.Perhaps he,s a drunk or a crank.I repeat if you’re so concerned about him call the Vatican ,the Swiss Guard or the authorities.Better yet why don’t you pray for him?I have.(Oh but you won’t because i think you think prayer is silly and for the weak minded)

I think you’ve got a big chip on your shoulder,you’re antagonistic and you’re intent in casting us and the reaction of the authorities in a bad light.What’s your real agenda?ZATZAT:"My reasoning is grounded in reality and not in the supernatural."From another of your posts.Another atheist with a tiny widdle axe to grind, out to expose the hypocracy of Christians.Boo-Hoo we’re trembling.

.Do you even know the definition of a miscreant?I can look it up for you if you’d like.

 

[Soutane]

First he’s called a criminal and now he’s called a miscreant?

Where’s the compassion? What would Jesus have called him?

The hypocracy.You’re an Atheist you don’t believe in Jesus.

Zatzat:"You’re free to believe whatever the Church tells you to believe.

I’m free to think."

“Belief in the supernatural, belief in a supernatural God, Bible is the Catholic HOly book”

I believe you’re utterly discredited in referring to what Jesus might have said.You’re just here to argue dust-disturb and tweak a few noses.How old are you?15?

 

[Zatzat]

Better yet why don’t you pray for him?I have.(Oh but you won’t because i think you think prayer is silly and for the weak minded)

I won’t pray, as I know that prayer is as effective as talking to myself.

I think you’ve got a big chip on your shoulder,you’re antagonistic and you’re intent in casting us and the reaction of the authorities in a bad light.

Stating that one is innocent until proven guilty, somehow casts authorities in a bad light?

 

[Chipper]

First of all a little understanding of what a “General Audience” is may help here.

I attended a General Audience in 2008. It is not as you probably think, a public forum, where folks just mosey on in and have a seat. There are 1.2 billion catholics in this world. And most would like to attend a general audience. There just isn’t enough room for this to happen.

So typically, the attendance is controlled via requests and invitations. In our case our group leader applied like two months in advance. We weren’t sure we would be allowed to attend until the day before the event.

On the day of the event, there were groups from all over the world. Some groups were denied attendance due to lack of room.

Once it started, a bishop began reading from a book, the groups in attendance, and welcoming them. When he got to our group from Texas, we let out a cheer, as did the other groups.

So this renegade dude that somehow got in, and started shouting and screaming, was most likely not even invited, but probably snuck (trespassed) in. Not only that, he was, in the least, disturbing the peace. The whole mode of the meeting would have been exceptionally disrupted by this guy. So I clearly see where the guards dragged him off.

Probably due to trespassing, and disturbing the peace, and who knows what other charges they came up with.

Again it isn’t a democratic public debate forum. It is by invite and approval that you attend this.

That guy they dragged away has serious problems.

 

[bobolink]

update: wdtprs.com/blog/2010/03/afp-man-screams-abuse-at-pope-benedict-xvi/

I read that the AFP communique was disinformation and that the man was shouting against pro-choice groups.

 

[Soutane]

I won’t pray, as I know that prayer is as effective as talking to myself.

Stating that one is innocent until proven guilty, somehow casts authorities in a bad light?

Shouldn’t that be "as I THINK that prayer…"Otherwise you sound a tad arrogant,and (gasp)omnipotent.

Should they have had a trial right there to prove him guilty before dragging him away?

I think you need some prayers.I will dedicate today’s Rosary to bringing you to the Truth of Christ.

 

[Soutane]

“I read that the AFP communique was disinformation and that the man was shouting against pro-choice groups.”

That makes him one of us but he STILL deserved to be removed for disturbing the peace,or isn’t that a crime anymore Zatzat?I know it is here and the U.S. and I’ll just bet it is in the Vatican city.

“Stating that one is innocent until proven guilty, somehow casts authorities in a bad light?”

Not at all but you seem obsessed with a simple matter.A disturbance occured;it was quelled and you’re hectoring us about someone being innocent until proven guilty which no one disagrees with.You have to understand that we almost lost John-Paul the Great to an assassins bullet if it hadn’t been for for the hand of Mary deflecting the bullet(we’ll pause here to give you time to scoff)Finished?The Holy Father is an old,old,man and Catholics here and around the world are very protective of him.Some intemporate words might have been posted here that don’t meet your lofty standards or have your benign approval.So forgive us will you?Mea culpa,mea culpa,mea maxima culpa.Ok?

 

[irishpatrick]

Perhaps he’s mentally ill, suffering from PTSD or a past victim sexual abuse from within the Church? Why are you so quick to condemn him as an anti-Catholic and bigoted man?

You’ve peaked my curiosity, where are the Church’s enemies going?

I think anyone who screams at the Pope like that is a minimum anti-Catholic, or at least very, very ignorant of the faith.

The Church’s enemies one day will face judgment, just as every soul will, wether they believe that or not.

 

[Soutane]

I agree Patrick,it matters not whether one believes in God because God believes in him,else he wouldn’t exist.The unbelievers will face judgement along with everyone else and I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes for all the tea in China.

 

[irishpatrick]

I agree Patrick,it matters not whether one believes in God because God believes in him,else he wouldn’t exist.The unbelievers will face judgement along with everyone else and I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes for all the tea in China.

Me either. It is one amazingly dangerous gamble.

 

[Soutane]

What will they say?What can they say?I don’t think the defense of Invincible Ignorance can apply as in my heart of hearts I think it’s a Pride thing.The sin of Pride that got us all into this Mess in the first place.

 

[Zatzat]

Should they have had a trial right there to prove him guilty before dragging him away?

Police require reasonable and probable grounds to believe an offence is being committed or has been committed in order to affect an arrest or lay charges. The police do not need to prove that a person is guilty before taking lawful action.

The police upon making an arrest or upon laying charges, do not determine guilt. They believe they have enough evidence to bring the matter to court.

It is only in a court of law, when a judge or jury concludes, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the accused is guilty of the crimes that they’ve been accused.

I’m genuinely baffled as to why I’m being treated as though I’m holding some really strange and outlandish views regarding the criminal justice system.

It is one of the most important pillars of the entire Justice system, ’ innocent until proven guilty.’

Guys, I didn’t make this up…

 

[Soutane]

I think we’ve explained our point of view succinctly.And yes I/we are familiar with due process of the law so let’s just see what happens to the alleged perpetrator.
I’m sure the Pope has already forgiven him,just like he forgave the disturbed woman who attacked him on two successive Christmas Eve’s and just like the late Pope-John-Paul the Great forgave Agca his attempted assassin in his jail cell after recovering from his wounds.
I’ll pray for him and you tonight why don’t you pray for him and me?I know you think prayer is just talking to yourself but why not indulge me?What could it hurt?

 

[Scardinoz]

Zatzat,

When you speak, do you always get pounced upon like a wounded deer?

No offense to the faithful but, from a 3rd party perspective, they had been less than charitable when discussing this with you while you remained well composed throughout.

As a matter of fact, the man is not a confirmed criminal.

The man should not be charged with any crime unless there is more to this story. Assuming all he did and all he intended to do is heckle, Christ would not have stones cast his way and He would not have his Pope cast stones his way.

We should pray for the Holy Father’s safety.

You’ve peaked my curiosity, where are the Church’s enemies going?

Your question was never answered and, though I didn’t make the statement, perhaps I can answer it. The enemies of the Church being gone seems to refer to the Apocalypse. Keep in mind that the Apocalypse is not the “End Times” that you see in Hollywood or even popular Christian-ish culture. The Apocalypse is the second coming of Jesus Christ to set the world straight. At one point, forces in the world under the leadership of the Anti-Christ seek to battle with God. Then this happens:
The Apocalypse of John (Revelations):

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and with justice doth he judge and fight.

12And his eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many diadems, and he had a name written, which no man knoweth but himself.

13And he was clothed with a garment sprinkled with blood; and his name is called, THE WORD OF GOD.

…]

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to make war with him that sat upon the horse, and with his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet, who wrought signs before him, wherewith he seduced them who received the character of the beast, and who adored his image. These two were cast alive into the pool of fire, burning with brimstone.

21And the rest were slain by the sword of him that sitteth upon the horse, which proceedeth out of his mouth; and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Hi Zatzat,

I see your religion is listed as “Enquirer” so I just want to comment on the tone that comes across in some of these threads.

The internet in general attracts opinionated people, and people who like to debate. The majority of people reading the threads do just that… they read them and don’t comment. The more caring people tend to avoid posting because they don’t enjoy being jumped on by the more militant angry types. So what you read on threads like this may not be representative of typical Catholic thought.

I’m sure most Catholics read the article and had thoughts of concern for this man who is most likely experiencing mental problems. Some people of good faith might also be scared by the article, because they feel like faithful Catholics are an increasingly small minority who are being closed in on all sides in this society.

I won’t pray, as I know that prayer is as effective as talking to myself.

How can you be so sure? How much praying have you done, and have you read any books on effective prayer?

I agree with you in one sense: if you pray against God’s will, your prayer won’t be effective. Prayer has more to do with changing the person who is praying, (or others who need God’s help) than with getting God to do things He wouldn’t have wanted to do in the first place.

 

[m134e5]

Last I checked, the Pope has no authority over non-Catholics and as far as being in a superior position, again…to a non-Catholic, the Pope is just an ordinary guy.

Even an atheist can recognize the Pope as the head of a sovereign nation, and give him the respect that a head of state deserves. Screaming at a head of state during a public audience is not appropriate. As a Catholic, the pope means a great deal to me. I would think that to a non-Catholic, the pope would be at least as ordinary as I view the King of Saudi Arabia, the Emperor of Japan, the Queen of England, the President of Russia, the Chancellor of Germany, the President of Mexico or any other head of state/person of authority in any other country I don’t have any personal ties to (but because of their positions, I do have a certain respect for them). I wonder how long he would have kept his head, had he screamed at the King of Saudi Arabia instead of the Pope- whether or not people thought the King had any authority over him.

 

[Zatzat]

Even an atheist can recognize the Pope as the head of a sovereign nation, and give him the respect that a head of state deserves.

I conceded this point on the first page. I stood well corrected.

 

[Zatzat]

Zatzat,

When you speak, do you always get pounced upon like a wounded deer?

No offense to the faithful but, from a 3rd party perspective, they had been less than charitable when discussing this with you while you remained well composed throughout.

As a matter of fact, the man is not a confirmed criminal.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. (I was beginning to feel like I was the holder of some very extreme views. )