Mandatory Drug Testing For Welfare Recipients?

[Eggnotz]

But were are, explicitly, speaking of the government and human rights in this there, as see the big bold letters of the topic. If you don’t think that turning in a bottle of your liquid rented-beer or juice regularly is demeaning, by all means go ahead, although even that will involve nurses, analysts and bunnysuited hazmat people for the disposal of this fluid bounty you are so proud to have donated to them, should they take it seriously at all, rather than laughing at you and telling you to dump it down the urinal, and cracking up!

On the other hand, people who need welfare have committed no crime for the purposes of this argument than the ‘crime’ of poverty. They are not * criminals*, you classist - and I might add, your position has the brimstone whiff of racism about it as well, however many bows and wingnobs you dress it up in too. And if they aren’t caught doing anything illegal (like harming themselves and others, especially in the case of the caring for small children), why in the world should they be treated as if they were, like someone on probation for drug violations or in the first stages of recovery, which is an entirely different kettle of fish?

Believe me, wealthy people with drug habits are far bigger and more reckless consumers of their drugs of choice - I know because I have seen them many, many times, often buying several thousands of dollars worth of cocaine, heroin, or what have you, or doctor-shopping and committing fraud with the feeling that they are above such laws like, say, Rush Limbaugh. Poor people could never afford, even at the cost of those around them, anything like such sheer feckless gluttony and utter disregard for both the law and the people to whom they are responsible.

You know nothing of me. You don’t know where I came from or where I’ve been. Classist? Racist? There is nothing substantive in your post that even warrants a response. It is vitriol that adds nothing to the debate. It is pure visceral emission.

I apologize for raising your blood pressure.

 

[jmcrae]

according to the bible, if man does not work, he does not eat. I would not let them starve to death, but i would not be very understanding. You work, you eat, you dont work, you dont eat.

My experience of the desperately poor is that they tend to be a lot more devoutly Christian and a lot straighter in terms of no drugs, no alcohol, no smoke, etc., than the rest of society. After all, their very survival depends on being alert and sober. They don’t have comfy homes where they can go hide out and have a few snorts or drinks or puffs, and then sleep it off.

For that reason, I don’t think it would be a good use of taxpayer’s money to fund wholescale drug testing for welfare recipients, because there would be no bang for the buck, to start with - and then what are you going to do with the information, once you have it? Once you know someone is a drug addict, what are you going to do with that information? Make sure he never works again as long as he lives?

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I think the post has offended some.And I do know that God is a God of the poor,even Jesus said the poor will be with you always,so get used to it.Psalms:14:6, 40:17, 69:33, 82:3 There are 206 verses that reguard to the poor in scriptures from Gen,to Rev,.Feed the poor with the money you think will benefit the tax payres pockets. And stop not their blessings on those in need. In Jesus name Amen. Nancy

 

[LilyM]

As an employer, I expect people to come to work on time and sober. Suggesting that someone arrives at work stoned is OK as long as they weren’t late won’t cut it.

I have never had a situation where someone who had a drug or alcohol problem ever performed to expectations. If I knew of a job applicant that was a drug or alcohol abuser but had a perfect attendance track record, I would not consider them for hire.

It’s true that doing any job involves a heck of a lot more than just turning up on time! Especially where the job involves driving, handling machinery or other physical tasks, but even where it doesn’t.

Someone affected by drugs or alcohol simply can’t perform ANY task whatsoever with the same speed and accuracy over any length of time as someone who’s sober. Not to mention that being affected by drugs or alcohol inevitably REALLY impacts how you get along with co-workers, something I’ve discovered over the course of working with a few people who’ve had drug and alcohol problems.

 

[Eggnotz]

I think the post has offended some.And I do know that God is a God of the poor,even Jesus said the poor will be with you always,so get used to it.Psalms:14:6, 40:17, 69:33, 82:3 There are 206 verses that reguard to the poor in scriptures from Gen,to Rev,.Feed the poor with the money you think will benefit the tax payres pockets. And stop not their blessings on those in need. In Jesus name Amen. Nancy

Let’s cut to the chase. The relationship is more direct than you suggest. A poor person IS Jesus Christ.

“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’” Matthew 25:45

Some here insist on ascribing malevolent intent to the poll question. This could not be further from the truth. There is nothing more important to a human being, made in God’s image, for whom Christ died than to help others. Along with loving God this is our primary mandate.

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:30-31

Asking someone to make a minimal effort in order to receive money does not do violence to our mandate to help the poor.

Actually, the greater issue is probably to ask a question to professing Christians. Why are we virtually identical to the rest of society when it comes to our pursuit of affluence. Shouldn’t we, as a group, be living below our means and helping the poor directly without feeling justified because our tax dollars are doing it for us?

This issue is more complicated than many people here seem willing to admit. Some here have chosen to do “brain surgery” with a “flamethrower”. That never helps.

 

[Cristiano]

That is the mindset of government. They don’t spend their own money. They don’t have to create and run a business in order to produce something out of nothing. To them it falls from the sky. Politicians go to work and spend someone else’s money then actually feel good about themselves for having done so! Interesting.

If you want to impress anyone, give your own money to the poor as we Christians are commanded to do.

The simple fact is that when the number of people taking from the system in all forms exceeds the ability of the government to tax people, borrow from the Chinese or pay for the ink Bernanke’s printing presses are gulping, the party will be over.

What will happen to the less fortunate then?

Asking someone to pee into a bottle in exchange for money that someone else worked for is not tantamount to disregarding the needs of the poor. That is a red herring.

You are mixing faith and politics. That is a red herring!

As Christians we are to give back to God. As Christians we are to give to the needy with no strings attached. As Christians we are not ask someone to prove that is worthy of what we give him, that is not charity. Ui caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

If people that receive our charity are unworthy the will answer to God.

 

[estesbob]

I ask again-If we require drug tests and they fail and repeatedly fail do we cut them off and allow them to starve to death?

 

[Cristiano]

…Asking someone to make a minimal effort in order to receive money does not do violence to our mandate to help the poor…

Yes, it does violence! We are not to ask for anything because we are not worthier and we have already been given plenty. The Lord said not to harvest all the fruits of our field and to let some for the widows in such a way that they could go in the field and gather for themselves. Again we are mixing politics and religion!

You may choose not to leave anything in the field or you may go on the other extreme and do the gathering work for the widows and then give to them.

I personally do not like the present political welfare system because I think that it forces us to be in the latter condition that is far beyond of what God asks us to do.

Again I am against the drug testing because it is a waste of taxpayers money. I have not seen anyone demonstrating that is feasible, and no one has shown a real moral justification to support it.

 

[Eggnotz]

I ask again-If we require drug tests and they fail and repeatedly fail do we cut them off and allow them to starve to death?

I thought it was a rhetorical question.

 

[estesbob]

I thought it was a rhetorical question.

No am deadly serious. if we require mandatory drug testing what are the consequences for those who fail?

 

[Eggnotz]

No am deadly serious. if we require mandatory drug testing what are the consequences for those who fail?

There should be some active intervention to help the person. But perhaps you’re right, just give it to them so they can smoke it. It’s just plain easier that way.

 

[estesbob]

There should be some active intervention to help the person. But perhaps you’re right, just give it to them so they can smoke it. It’s just plain easier that way.

I am not suggesting we give then drugs-just that no one in this country should ever be allowed to starve to death. We have the greatest country on the face of the earth and everyone should have adequate food and shelter regardless of whether they work for it or not.

 

[jmcrae]

There should be some active intervention to help the person. But perhaps you’re right, just give it to them so they can smoke it. It’s just plain easier that way.

It seems as if you believe that people can only become poor by doing drugs - that poverty is a deserved punishment for being a drug addict. Far from it. People are often born into poverty and simply never escape it.

Or, they experience a crisis - something completely outside of their control - that wipes out their savings, and then never recover. But there is no reason to expect the poor to be more likely to be doing drugs than anyone else. There are also a few who drug themselves into poverty - but they don’t tend to live very long, and they seldom call attention to themselves by asking for government support.

Again, my personal experience of the desperately poor is that they are more likely to be churchgoers, and more likely to be “straight” in every sense of that word, than the general population.

 

[Bennie_P]

Only if it is madatory for members of Congress and the Senate, for they are the largest recipients of welfare.

 

[Eggnotz]

We have the greatest country on the face of the earth and everyone should have adequate food and shelter regardless of whether they work for it or not.

I agree. Nothing I’ve said suggests that anyone should be allowed to starve.

 

[Eggnotz]

It seems as if you believe that people can only become poor by doing drugs - that poverty is a deserved punishment for being a drug addict.

This is not what I believe. Who in their right mind, especially a Christian, would feel this way?

 

[goofyjim]

I think what many fail to recognize is the cycle that causes drug addiction to begin with. There is noone, NOONE, who started down the road of drug use that doesn’t have some sort of unresolved emotional issue. Then once you start it becomes addictive and makes it almost impossible to work whether or not you can do regular stuff like cook, clean, or whatever. Now if we are going to take away the welfare from those who do drugs we may still be taking it away frm the very ones who need it most, not because of choice.

 

[Dori1]

You are mixing faith and politics. That is a red herring!

As Christians we are to give back to God. As Christians we are to give to the needy with no strings attached. As Christians we are not ask someone to prove that is worthy of what we give him, that is not charity. Ui caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

If people that receive our charity are unworthy the will answer to God.

I am a bystander in this conversation, but I had to speak up at this point. I completely agree that, as Christians, we are to give to the needy. But Welfare is not you giving to the needy. I pay my taxes, but I have also taken homeless persons in to my home on countless occasions. Sometimes they have absolutely taken advantage of our family, and made our lives miserable. Sometimes they have been able to get on their feet and move forward. It doesn’t change the fact that we are obligated to help when we can. We are blessed, and we share it. We have paid tuition for single mothers who need to learn to make a living. Bought supplies and layettes, and whatever.

I am not pointing these things out to put our family forward. Rather it is an illustration. Welfare is not charity. It is a system that is desiged to keep people unempowered and dependent. I was a single mother who worked her way through an undergraduate degree and medical school. I never utilized the welfare system, but I understand there are some who must. I am, praise God, now married and my children are grown. I hope they learned from the way they were raised; that you don’t ever give up, and when God blesses you, you share it.

In my practice, I’ve worked with an enormous number of welfare recipients. Some were using it as it was intended to be used, a step up. Many, however, use it indefinitely, in place of any effort to care for themselves and use the money intended to care for their children to obtain drugs.

I have no problem whatsoever with requiring people who receive taxpayers dollars to drug test. If they fail, they should be required to participate in mandatory rehab programs and supervisory interventions. No, don’t strike them from the roles…but don’t let them slide either. At some point, there must be accountability. BTW; government employees are subject to random drug testing.

If you really believe in loving charity…as do I and many of my friends and family…live like the brethren and practice it. Paying your taxes does not fulfill your Christian obligation to practice charity. Welfare is a government program, paid for with the tax dollars of all, not just those who share our beliefs. There is an obligation to utilize those funds appropriately.

Don’t mix the two concepts. Welfare does not equal charity. Not in today’s America.

 

[Cristiano]

I am a bystander in this conversation, but I had to speak up at this point. I completely agree that, as Christians, we are to give to the needy. But Welfare is not you giving to the needy. I pay my taxes, but I have also taken homeless persons in to my home on countless occasions. Sometimes they have absolutely taken advantage of our family, and made our lives miserable. Sometimes they have been able to get on their feet and move forward. It doesn’t change the fact that we are obligated to help when we can. We are blessed, and we share it. We have paid tuition for single mothers who need to learn to make a living. Bought supplies and layettes, and whatever.

I am not pointing these things out to put our family forward. Rather it is an illustration. Welfare is not charity. It is a system that is desiged to keep people unempowered and dependent. I was a single mother who worked her way through an undergraduate degree and medical school. I never utilized the welfare system, but I understand there are some who must. I am, praise God, now married and my children are grown. I hope they learned from the way they were raised; that you don’t ever give up, and when God blesses you, you share it.

In my practice, I’ve worked with an enormous number of welfare recipients. Some were using it as it was intended to be used, a step up. Many, however, use it indefinitely, in place of any effort to care for themselves and use the money intended to care for their children to obtain drugs.

I have no problem whatsoever with requiring people who receive taxpayers dollars to drug test. If they fail, they should be required to participate in mandatory rehab programs and supervisory interventions. No, don’t strike them from the roles…but don’t let them slide either. At some point, there must be accountability. BTW; government employees are subject to random drug testing.

If you really believe in loving charity…as do I and many of my friends and family…live like the brethren and practice it. Paying your taxes does not fulfill your Christian obligation to practice charity. Welfare is a government program, paid for with the tax dollars of all, not just those who share our beliefs. There is an obligation to utilize those funds appropriately.

Don’t mix the two concepts. Welfare does not equal charity. Not in today’s America.

You and the OP are bringing up the statement that welfare is charity not me. Go back and read the posts including 137. In my post I was discussing Christian charity and not welfare, and that it is why I said that mixing religion and politics is a red herring. I firmly believe in giving 10% of the gross income to charity independently of what is paid for taxes.

 

[Sheeniac]

What if they don’t work? Or what if the drugs render them unemployable? Do their children go hungry?

Perhaps they should be given food and rent/utility vouchers rather than cash payments.