Many Adams and Eves?

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How do you know that God could not have “evolved” (as you say) spirit from matter?
There’s no reason God could not have done that, if God is omnipotent. I have a pair of friends in England (a scientist and a theologian) who are working right now on the problem of self-assemblage of pre-organic components.
 
A while ago, I made a detailed post explaining that the Church no longer seems to teach monogenism. Nobody has commented or attempted to refute it. I still wonder why the Pontifical Academy of Sciences made these assertions in apparent contradiction to Church teaching unless the Church has reversed her opinion on this in the face of scientific research.
Thank you for your link in post 228 above.

I have started checking references in your post and noticed a slightly different wording in the translation of Pope John Paul II address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, October 22, 1996. Because of traveling to spend Mother’s Day with kids, I will need to postpone my research.

For now, if you would kindly go down to section 5, in this same address, you will find the continual emphasis on monogenism. “Consequently, theories of evolution which, in accordance with the philosophies inspiring them, consider the spirit [soul] as emerging from the forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter, are incompatible with the truth about man. Nor are they able to ground the dignity of the person.”

Ah, one says. It doesn’t seem like monogenism is being taught. Actually, it is. One needs to remember that this address is directed to scientists who already know what monogenism means just as they understand the basis of science and how it applies to living organisms. It is also a common understanding that the realm of the Academy of Sciences is the material/physical world. The realm of Catholicism is faith and morals – what is necessary for us to reach our intended end of living eternally in complete joy and peace with God.

Pope John Paul II is not there to instruct scientists in strictly scientific matters. He is there to demonstrate where scientific information intersects with Divine Revelation as taught by the Catholic Church. In section 3, the Pope says: “Before offering you several reflections that more specifically concern the subject of the origin of life and its evolution, I would like to remind you that the Magisterium of the Church has already made pronouncements on these matters within the framework of her own competence.” Key points are 1. several reflections. As individuals, anyone including the Pope, can offer opinions, speculations, conclusions, reflections, etc. about science. These cannot be confused with the Catholic Deposit of Faith. 2. the Magisterium of the Church has already made pronouncements. This indicates clearly that the Pope is upholding the traditional Catholic position of two sole parents of the human species.

Skipping briefly to the last quoted section where a sentence is highlighted. It looks like that is the conclusion to the opening statement “According to the widely accepted scientific account…” This paper was written by a committee who were commenting on current science. It is not a direct teaching from the Catholic realm of faith and morals. To understand this, one needs to go back to the October 22, 1996 address, section 5, for ways of separating “living organisms” into two general categories: 1. non-human organisms having a material nature and 2. the unique and distinct human organism whose nature is an unification of spirit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul and body.

Unfortunately, “evolution” has become a generic word which leads to a great deal of confusion unless people put sound bite statements back into context.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
 
How do you know that God could not have “evolved” (as you say) spirit from matter?
Most of the time, I try to avoid debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Which is the same as debating how many ways could God have done this or that. Please see post 241 above for an example.

Human nature is a distinct unification of the rational/corporeal. God has explained His purpose for human beings whose nature of necessity has to include both the immaterial and material. I accept Catholic doctrines regarding the human nature of Adam and his descendents.

I understand the scientific difference between the immaterial and material and have posted this on other threads. If you wish information about this difference, let me know and I will post something after my Mother’s Day travels.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is sacred.
 
There’s no reason God could not have done that, if God is omnipotent. I have a pair of friends in England (a scientist and a theologian) who are working right now on the problem of self-assemblage of pre-organic components.
What do you mean by “problem” of self assemblage
 
There’s no reason God could not have done that, if God is omnipotent. I have a pair of friends in England (a scientist and a theologian) who are working right now on the problem of self-assemblage of pre-organic components.
Correct - the modern synthesis is being replaced by the EES. The odds against are much higher now than ever before. Good luck, but as long as somebody funds them, then all is well.
 
They weren’t immortal. They died. If you disagree, please give me their current address, or phone number, etc.
Look at the other preternatural gifts.

Catholic Dogma:


  1. *] Every human being possesses an individual soul. (De fide.)
    *] Every individual soul was immediately created out of nothing by God. (Sent. Certa.)
    *] A creature has the capacity to receive supernatural gifts. (Sent. communis.)
    *] The Supernatural presupposes Nature. (Sent communis.)
    *] God has conferred on man a supernatural Destiny. (De fide.)
    *] Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De fide.)
    *] The donum rectitudinis or integritatis in the narrower sense, i.e., the freedom from irregular desire. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
    *] The donum immortalitatis, i.e.,bodily immortality. (De fide.)
    *] The donum impassibilitatis, i.e., the freedom from suffering. (Sent. communis.)
    *] The donum scientiae, i.e., a knowledge of natural and supernatural truths infused by God. (Sent. communis.)
    *] Adam received sanctifying grace not merely for himself, but for all his posterity. (Sent. certa.)
    *] Our first parents in paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment. (De fide.)
    *] Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God. (De fide.)
    *] Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the Devil. (De fide.) D788.
 
Fortunately, Catholics are free to read Scripture both symbolically and literally (along with many other ways).
Catholics do not practice private interpretation. Look to the Magisterium for the constant teaching and understanding of Scripture.
 
60 million, if you consider at least two of each kind.
Wrong again. If one uses today’s definition of species then it it much greater. But as IDvolution posits there are less kinds needed. Because of new knowledge of rapid adaptation it is not a problem for the diversity we see to come about in thousands of years vs billions. IDvolution doesn’t need the time, evo does.
 
The challenge of explaining self assemblage.
Not to worry - the evo’s are great story tellers. The bad design of the eye was evidence for evolution they claimed.

Now the eye is no longer badly designed.

Look at Ken Miller storytelling about the eye. Oops. (it seems he is going to go down with the ship- Ken when are you going to jump off the sinking evo barge?)

Evolution gave flawed eye better vision

…IT LOOKS wrong, but the strange, “backwards” structure of the vertebrate retina actually improves vision.

…The cells also seem to help keep colours in focus. Just as light separates in a prism, the lenses in our eyes separate different colours, causing some frequencies to be out of focus at the retina. The simulations showed that Müller cells’ wide tops allow them to “collect” any separated colours and refocus them onto the same cone cell, ensuring that all the colours from an image are in focus (see diagram). “It suggests that light-coupling by Müller cells is a crucial event that contributes to vision as we know it,” says Kristian Franze, a neurophysicist at the University of Cambridge and co-author of the 2007 study. “This work nicely complements our experimental data.”
However, Kenneth Miller, a biologist at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island cautions that this doesn’t mean that the backwards retina itself helps us to see. Rather, it emphasises the extent to which evolution has coped with the flawed layout. “The shape, orientation and structure of the Müller cells help the retina to overcome one of the principal shortcomings of its inside-out wiring,” says Miller.
 
If one uses today’s definition of species then it it much greater. But as IDvolution posits there are less kinds needed.
“fewer kinds.”
Because of new knowledge of rapid adaptation it is not a problem for the diversity we see to come about in thousands of years vs billions. IDvolution doesn’t need the time, evo does.
Buffalo, when are you going to propose your IDvolution theory to the ASA?
 
Not to worry - the evo’s are great story tellers. The bad design of the eye was evidence for evolution they claimed.
However, Kenneth Miller, a biologist at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island cautions that this doesn’t mean that the backwards retina itself helps us to see. Rather, it emphasises the extent to which evolution has coped with the flawed layout. “The shape, orientation and structure of the Müller cells help the retina to overcome one of the principal shortcomings of its inside-out wiring,” says Miller.
How is this an argument against evolution?
 
“fewer kinds.”

Buffalo, when are you going to propose your IDvolution theory to the ASA?
Thanks for the grammar correction. Perhaps you will be my editor? 😉

IDvolution is a philosophical concept that explores the intersection of faith and reason. The science is coming in fast now and it will either stand the test of time or not. I am content to let true science stand before the ASA.
 
Yes. Exactly.
Arcanum by Pope Leo XIII:

“Though revilers of the Christian faith refuse to acknowledge the never-interrupted doctrine of the Church on this subject, and have long striven to destroy the testimony of all nations and of all times, they have nevertheless failed not only to quench the powerful light of truth, but even to lessen it. We record what is to all known, and cannot be doubted by any, that God, on the sixth day of creation, having made man from the slime of the earth, and having breathed into his face the breath of life, gave him a companion, whom He miraculously took from the side of Adam when he was locked in sleep.”

God bless,
Ed
 
Not to worry - the evo’s are great story tellers. The bad design of the eye was evidence for evolution they claimed.

Now the eye is no longer badly designed.

Look at Ken Miller storytelling about the eye. Oops. (it seems he is going to go down with the ship- Ken when are you going to jump off the sinking evo barge?)

Evolution gave flawed eye better vision

…IT LOOKS wrong, but the strange, “backwards” structure of the vertebrate retina actually improves vision.

…The cells also seem to help keep colours in focus. Just as light separates in a prism, the lenses in our eyes separate different colours, causing some frequencies to be out of focus at the retina. The simulations showed that Müller cells’ wide tops allow them to “collect” any separated colours and refocus them onto the same cone cell, ensuring that all the colours from an image are in focus (see diagram). “It suggests that light-coupling by Müller cells is a crucial event that contributes to vision as we know it,” says Kristian Franze, a neurophysicist at the University of Cambridge and co-author of the 2007 study. “This work nicely complements our experimental data.”
However, Kenneth Miller, a biologist at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island cautions that this doesn’t mean that the backwards retina itself helps us to see. Rather, it emphasises the extent to which evolution has coped with the flawed layout. “The shape, orientation and structure of the Müller cells help the retina to overcome one of the principal shortcomings of its inside-out wiring,” says Miller.
I’m with you there. The ship is sinking but Ken wants to stay on. He says he’s concerned about “science eduction” but that does not appear to be the case. I sincerely hope he wakes up from his position.

God bless,
Ed
 
What do you think HE chose? Evolution has not been scientifically proven.
You realize that’s not true, right? A book that I think has been cited here is The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins and I highly recommend it.
 
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