Many Adams and Eves?

[StAnastasia]

…can you expand on this? I have not come across a flat earth in the Bible are you sure you are not confusing metaphor with science?Angel

Some biblical passages make no sense in the model of a spherical earth. “I saw a tree of great height at the center of the earth; the tree grew and became strong, reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth’s farthest bounds.” (Daniel 4:10-11)

 

[buffalo]

It depends on what the listener hears. And what the speaker intends. Most people, when they hear the term, associate it with a series God-not-involved random events. Most professional biologists (70% of whom are atheists or agnostics), when they use the term associate it with a series of God-not-involved random events.

You’re trying to get around this by saying that technically speaking, the exact definition of evolution doesn’t mean what you think it does.

Maybe not, but the real definition of evolution is what scientists mean when they say it, and what people interpret when they hear it.

IDvolution is a distinction.

 

[StAnastasia]

…I don’t think the argument is against those of intellectual and atheist parents since those are approved by the government–it’s those Christians that must be stopped from removing their children from the homogenizing public school system that proposes tolerance for everything except anything Christian.Angel

Not at all – some people home school their children because the local public school is not academically rigorous enough.

 

[StAnastasia]

.Wow, you are right, there’s not a single hole in the whole evolution proposition!

That may not be true, but you have not yet shown any.

 

[StAnastasia]

Completely true - and, as has been pointed out (whether in this thread or the parallel one I don’t have a clue) the scientific cutting-edge now indicates a single “Adam” (male ancestor). . . . although not contemporary with the previously-postulated single female ancestor “Eve” . . . .

Yes – they lived 50,000 - 80,000 years apart. Adam never mated with Eve while she was still alive.

 

[ricmat]

Angel, which sacred system should be taught in public schools? We have numerous ones in a pluralistic culture such as you find in most modern democracies.

Well, here’s my answer.

Since I’m Catholic, and think that the Church teaches Truth, it’s obvious that the “sacred system” that should be taught EVERYWHERE is the Catholic Truth.

There is no need to be “fair.” There is no need to be sensitive to a “pluralistic culture”. That just leads to chaos, and “I’m OK, you’re OK, everybody is OK, everything is OK.”

God does not obligate us to teach alternative truths. Do you disagree? God wants us to teach truth. Do you disagree?

Now, if you (StA) have doubts about the truth of Catholic teaching, then I realize why you would be hesitant to actually teach it. Or why you might not want others to hear it.

Or perhaps you’re afraid of criticism from the “pluralistic culture such as you find in most ‘modern’ democracies.” You certainly would not want to be criticized for being “not modern.” Or “not democratic.”

To answer your objection in advance: No, I would not want my children to be taught truths in opposition to Catholic teaching. No, I would not want to teach them these alternate truths and then have them decide which is best for them. No, I would not want to have to skillfully guide them toward the real truth after purposely exposing them to the anti-truth. Or partial truth.

And no, I don’t know how to go about implementing this. But in terms of what should be taught - the answer is Catholic teaching!

 

[buffalo]

Yes – they lived 50,000 - 80,000 years apart. Adam never mated with Eve while she was still alive.

Adam and Eve are not the same as mtDNA female and the y-chromosome male.

You conveniently ignored the charts I provided a few posts ago. As usual.

 

[buffalo]

Well, here’s my answer.

Since I’m Catholic, and think that the Church teaches Truth, it’s obvious that the “sacred system” that should be taught EVERYWHERE is the Catholic Truth.

There is no need to be “fair.” There is no need to be sensitive to a “pluralistic culture”. That just leads to chaos, and “I’m OK, you’re OK, everybody is OK, everything is OK.”

God does not obligate us to teach alternative truths. Do you disagree? God wants us to teach truth. Do you disagree?

Now, if you (StA) have doubts about the truth of Catholic teaching, then I realize why you would be hesitant to actually teach it. Or why you might not want others to hear it.

Or perhaps you’re afraid of criticism from the “pluralistic culture such as you find in most ‘modern’ democracies.” You certainly would not want to be criticized for being “not modern.” Or “not democratic.”

To answer your objection in advance: No, I would not want my children to be taught truths in opposition to Catholic teaching. No, I would not want to teach them these alternate truths and then have them decide which is best for them. No, I would not want to have to skillfully guide them toward the real truth after purposely exposing them to the anti-truth. Or partial truth.

And no, I don’t know how to go about implementing this. But in terms of what should be taught - the answer is Catholic teaching!

ricmat - you have fingered StA accurately. She could not stand the humiliation from her friends, her circle of Catholic priests and the 200,000 working biologists.

To cope she has adopted scientism as her religion.

 

[StAnastasia]

Since I’m Catholic, and think that the Church teaches Truth, it’s obvious that the “sacred system” that should be taught EVERYWHERE is the Catholic Truth.

ricmat, if you have visited the United States you know that they have people living there from many different parts of the world, representing many different cultures. It is a pluralistic culture, unlike, for example, and Islamic state where the Qur’an is the sole authority and is implemented by sharia.

Short of forcing everyone in the United States to live according to Catholic beliefs, how would you implement teaching Catholic religion, history, science, and mathematics to children from non-Catholic backgrounds?

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

You conveniently ignored the charts I provided a few posts ago. As usual.

I looked at your charts. They don’t help your case for Adam and Eve.

 

[ricmat]

ricmat, if you have visited the United States you know that they have people living there from many different parts of the world, representing many different cultures.

Oh, a put down. My profile clearly says I live in Southern California. How typical of StA.

It is a pluralistic culture, unlike, for example, and Islamic state where the Qur’an is the sole authority and is implemented by sharia.

I think we agree that sharia is bad. Or maybe you think it’s OK to teach it as part of a pluralistic culture?

Short of forcing everyone in the United States to live according to Catholic beliefs, how would you implement teaching Catholic religion, history, science, and mathematics to children from non-Catholic backgrounds?

StAnastasia

I would force everyone to live according to (or at least learn) Catholic teaching.

Is that bad? Why?

 

[ricmat]

I looked at your charts. They don’t help your case for Adam and Eve.

StA has spoken. So let it be written. So let it be done. LOL

 

[ricmat]

Angel, which sacred system should be taught in public schools? We have numerous ones in a pluralistic culture such as you find in most modern democracies.

Tell me StA - what kind of “culture” is “The Kingdom of God?” A “modern, pluralistic culture?”

When we say “Thy Kingdom come” what is your vision of this Kingdom? One in which everyone has different beliefs, even opposite moral beliefs, but everyone lives in harmony because of their cultural sensitivity?

When we say “Thy Kingdom come” we make a commitment to change this world to be as much like God’s Kingdom as possible. Thy will be done - that’s not pluralistic either. Sorry.

 

[buffalo]

I looked at your charts. They don’t help your case for Adam and Eve.

They are not my charts.

They show a better case for Eve (mtDNA female and Noah (y-chromosomal male.)

 

[StAnastasia]

Oh, a put down. My profile clearly says I live in Southern California. How typical of StA.

ricmat, if I tried my hardest to put up with your put downs, I would be running in place!

I think we agree that sharia is bad. Or maybe you think it’s OK to teach it as part of a pluralistic culture?

Your neurons are betraying you this morning. I did not say sharia should be implemented.

I would force everyone to live according to (or at least learn) Catholic teaching. Is that bad? Why?

You want a Catholic theocracy. Calvin tried to implement a theocracy in sixteenth-century Geneva, and it was a miserable failure.

 

[StAnastasia]

They are not my charts.

I assumed that.

They show a better case for Eve (mtDNA female and Noah (y-chromosomal male.)

They do not support your case for a literal Adam and Eve, or a literal Noah. They do not support a one-couple bottleneck.

 

[buffalo]

I assumed that.

They do not support your case for a literal Adam and Eve, or a literal Noah. They do not support a one-couple bottleneck.

In your opinion what do the charts show?

 

[ricmat]

You want a Catholic theocracy. Calvin tried to implement a theocracy in sixteenth-century Geneva, and it was a miserable failure.

Have you uncovered evidence someplace that Calvin was a Catholic? Please, present a paper to…whoever it is that you always recommend others submit papers to. This might be worth a Nobel prize in…something.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I’ll bet you’ve actually used 3.2 at some times in the past. Back in my early days before electronic calculators were invented (not quite back to 1897), school tests which required an actual numerical answer involving pi often allowed rounding to 3.1 or 3.2, so long as you said what it was you were rounding to.

It seems to me that StA (and now you?) are attempting to mock religious people. As I’ve mentioned to StA in the past, when you start to use mockery, it means you’re out of real ammunition.

What I have seen in this thread is mockery of science and scientists. Here are some examples:

"…a long long long long long long time ago… then when things got just right this one smaller mass cooled to just the right temp… then after zillions of almost incidents an ooze churned at the just right thickness and composition… amaaazingly electrical stoms seized the opportunity and bombarded the ooze with the just right electrical charge… then life emerged and divested itself of its limited existence as a single-celled micro-organism and became the millions and millions of diverse complex lifeforms that populate this planet…

…mean while… the planet itself underwent through myriad of climatic changes and just so conditions to allow the cycle of life to coexist in the various interdependent and independent eco systems…

Wow, you are right, there’s not a single hole in the whole evolution proposition!"

and

ricmat - you have fingered StA accurately. She could not stand the humiliation from her friends, her circle of Catholic priests and the 200,000 working biologists.

To cope she has adopted scientism as her religion.

and

The idea here is that slime became alive, grew brains, went through a delusional belief/God period because that’s just how things go, but we can safely abandon all that now.God forbid,Ed

and

April Fool’s day is past.

and

…my point is that Science is working on theories and premises and it presents its findings as factual and concrete though much of its argument is based on theory and hypothesis!

and

The Church deals in theology (Faith based) while science deals in fact and much theorizing (fact contorted to support the latest theory/ies).

and

but that’s just it! We must accept theory and hypothesis as fact and shun Yahweh God as myth; though they claim purity in research their goals always point to the self-emergence of life where God does not exist and everything that cannot be explained by science must wait till a theory or hypothesis is engineered… it’s the old ‘order created out of chaos’ through sheer will of a non-intelligent non-existing “nature.”

and

Nice try, but all you’ve written is a rephrasing of the constant, ridiculous propaganda being posted here constantly. “They was stupid, we is smart. Smart wins.”

Evolution is not the new circumcision, a requirement for entering, or being allowed to stay, in the house of God. Do you think someone should stand at the door of every Church to confirm that each Catholic holds the correct scientific beliefs?

and

Respectfully, the just say yes to evolution crowd posts their mantra here constantly, without signs of slowing down the repetition.

and

Some scientists woke up one day, and said “nope, never happened.”

and

Not to worry - the evo’s are great story tellers

And my personal favorite:

…wait, Ed, are you saying that it is not only the common pedestrian thinker that sees a whole mess of holes in the evil ution theory?

which involves a clear violation of forum rules.

I could list many more examples, but I think this shows that mockery has been used on both sides of this debate and it’s a shame.

 

[grannymh]

Short of forcing everyone in the United States to live according to Catholic beliefs, how would you implement teaching Catholic religion, history, science, and mathematics to children from non-Catholic backgrounds?

StAnastasia

Perhaps the concept of intellect and free will should be mentioned so that readers do not get the wrong impression of StAnastasia’s comment: “Short of forcing everyone in the United States to live according to Catholic beliefs, how would you implement teaching Catholic religion, history, science, and mathematics to children from non-Catholic backgrounds?”

First of all, Catholicism respects the true human nature. The human student has an intellect to absorb and deal with information about Catholicism and the free will to accept, reject, or ignore. Force is never an issue nor should it be implied. Music appreciation does not force anyone to buy a glockenspiel. Or does it in your neighborhood?

Catholicism as a course of intellectual study does not require lab experiments. Thus, it would be taught in a similar way as music or glockenspiel appreciation.

Blessings,
granny

The search for knowledge is worthy of the adventures of the journey.