Many Adams and Eves?

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StAnastasia said:
Angel, which sacred system should be taught in public schools? We have numerous ones in a pluralistic culture such as you find in most modern democracies.
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ricmat said:
Tell me StA - what kind of “culture” is “The Kingdom of God?” A “modern, pluralistic culture?”

When we say “Thy Kingdom come” what is your vision of this Kingdom? One in which everyone has different beliefs, even opposite moral beliefs, but everyone lives in harmony because of their cultural sensitivity?

When we say “Thy Kingdom come” we make a commitment to change this world to be as much like God’s Kingdom as possible. Thy will be done - that’s not pluralistic either. Sorry.
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Your arguments for a modern pluralistic education seem quite weak. Is there pluralism in the Kingdom of God?

How many “Truths” can be true simultaneously if they are opposites?
 
LittleSoldier said:
Wow, StAnastasia, I am really shocked to see that some Catholics believe in concepts like this. Living under a system which literally forces people to adhere to any religion sounds like hell to me. I have a strong feeling that the Church would never condone such a system.

I mean, like granny said, isn’t there that free will thing? How should people who disagree with the Church be treated? Jailed? Flogged? Murdered? I was under the impression that, although salvation comes through the Catholic Church, that non-Catholics also went to heaven.
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Yes, salvation comes through the Catholic Church and reaches outward to all peoples, in all places, in all circumstances.

Since Christ died for all, since all humans are descendents of Adam, the Catholic Church holds that the Holy Spirit offers the possibility of salvation to all people.

Hopefully, I can explain this so it is understandable. While the Catholic Church is universal in that it calls all people to become members, not all people will know about the Catholic Church or the life of its Founder, Jesus Christ. God understands all the circumstances of each person’s life and acts accordingly. The bottom line is that we respect a person’s free will and intellect. And we trust God to keep the door open and the light burning.

The Catholic Church offers all people the Seven Sacraments including the Holy Eucharist as means to overcome temptations, to live a charitable and moral life, and to walk in friendship with God in this life and eternally in the next life.

The next question is: What happens to people who know about Catholicism but do not accept it? It is not always apparent how the Holy Spirit draws people to God or when He does this. It is not our place to judge another person’s soul or the reasons for a person’s decisions. God is not bound by our human opinions. We must never underestimate the power of God to touch a person’s heart.

But it is our place to love and serve others and when practicable invite them to join us. We need not be afraid to suggest that someone learn about Catholicism. We need to be open to opportunities to share the Gospel message. On the other hand, we need to recognize that we can be rejected. When that happens, we continue in prayer.

Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross was the means of reconciliation between all humanity and God – because God loved each of us so much.

Blessings,
granny

John 3:16 & 17
 
StAnastasia said:
The kingdom of God is not tied to culture.
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It is in this world. Culture decides our laws. Multi-cultural, pluralistic, modern cultures come up with stuff like “abortion is OK.”

You seem to want a culture in which everyone can say that God’s laws are fine and dandy, so long as they don’t affect you personally (by force of law), and you retain the multi-cultural, pluralistic right to do whatever it is you really wanted to do anyway.

“Thy Kingdom Come” - make it so.
 
ricmat said:
Your arguments for a modern pluralistic education seem quite weak. Is there pluralism in the Kingdom of God?

How many “Truths” can be true simultaneously if they are opposites?
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StAnastasia said:
Indeed, there is.
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“Thy will be done.” Not, “Thy will is optional. What we really want here is a bunch of conflicting wills, each to his or her own.”

Thy will - singular. Not plural.
 
LittleSoldier said:
She didn’t offer it as proof. Your “pointing out the absurdity of it” is absurd.
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Then why did she mention it? “Hey, ricmat, here’s something for you to think about that has nothing to do with my argument?”

No, not mathematical proof, but certainly “supporting evidence proof.”
 
ricmat said:
IMHO you engage too much in looking for hidden (true) meanings in other people’s sentences. “Think” versus “Know.” Now this. I admit to being sloppy in my choice of words. Given that fact, perhaps it would be best to ask me what I meant, rather than analyze it as though I wrote it 200 years ago, and was no longer around to clarify things.
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It’s not my fault you don’t understand parenthetical statements. Do you wish for me to ask you to re-write all of your posts until you decide I understand what you are really attempting to say? I won’t ask you to do that. I’ve been trying to get off this forum for days now and this is it.
So tell me about the Kindgom of God. See post above.
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The Kingdom of God is not here on earth. That is why we pray: “Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven…”
Our free will is never taken away, or our choice to love God.
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Oh, yes sir, it is, and if you can’t see that I really wonder about you.
The best we can ever do it teach it, and have laws based on it.
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Wrong. The best we can ever do is to show its benefits by our example and by praying, not by teaching it to people who do not want to know about it, and not by punishing people who believe in freedom of religion.
 
You seem to want a culture in which everyone can say that God’s laws are fine and dandy, so long as they don’t affect you personally (by force of law), and you retain the multi-cultural, pluralistic right to do whatever it is you really wanted to do anyway.
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This is the ricmat I know: lie whenever possible. “Let’s make up a position and pawn it off as the belief of someone else.”
 
ricmat said:
“Thy will be done.” Not, “Thy will is optional. What we really want here is a bunch of conflicting wills, each to his or her own.”

Thy will - singular. Not plural.
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I believe the word “will,” when used in reference to God, encompasses all His will. When we pray the Lord’s Prayer, we pray that all God’s will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. I think bringing plurality into this is an error.

I have to leave now. Really. I’m very ill and I can’t stay on the forums. I’ve already left once and I received a request to come back and did so, but I just can’t do this physically or emotionally right now.

I’m sorry we are not on good terms at this point; please believe me when I say I love you as my brother/sister in Christ and I know you are a good person and I wish only joy, peace, and wisdom for you and for every person on CAF.

I will miss you.
 
LittleSoldier said:
The Kingdom of God is not here on earth. That is why we pray: “Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven…”
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There are many Catholic sources in which you can learn what the Kingdom of God refers to, especially in the context of the Our Father. It is part of our “job” to make the Kingdom of God here as much like heaven as possible.
LittleSoldier said:
Oh, yes sir, it is, and if you can’t see that I really wonder about you.
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Being instructed in Catholic teaching is not taking away free-will. I disagree with you.
 
StAnastasia said:
This is the ricmat I know: lie whenever possible. “Let’s make up a position and pawn it off as the belief of someone else.”
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God bless you, StAnastasia. I wish I could stay but I really have to go. I will be lurking but I can’t post anymore.

Thank you for defending science and scientists.

I will miss you very much.
 
ricmat said:
You seem to want a culture in which everyone can say that God’s laws are fine and dandy, so long as they don’t affect you personally (by force of law), and you retain the multi-cultural, pluralistic right to do whatever it is you really wanted to do anyway.

“Thy Kingdom Come” - make it so.
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StAnastasia said:
This is the ricmat I know: lie whenever possible. “Let’s make up a position and pawn it off as the belief of someone else.”
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That it seems to me that your situation is what I describe above is not a lie. It certainly does seem that way to me.

I would be lying if I said it did not seem that way to me.
 
ricmat said:
It is in this world. Culture decides our laws. Multi-cultural, pluralistic, modern cultures come up with stuff like “abortion is OK.”

You seem to want a culture in which everyone can say that God’s laws are fine and dandy, so long as they don’t affect you personally (by force of law), and you retain the multi-cultural, pluralistic right to do whatever it is you really wanted to do anyway.

“Thy Kingdom Come” - make it so.
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:eek: I take it back. I won’t miss you at all.
 
LittleSoldier said:
From post #570:

The implication is that Catholicism would be imposed. The phrase “to live according to” is given a prominent place in the sentence, whereas the phrase “or at least learn” is in parentheses, showing less emphasis.

I would also submit that using “force” goes against Catholic teaching and those that would enforce such a system would not be practicing Catholic teaching.

When someone is “forced” to live by Catholic teaching, his/her free will is removed and along with it, his/her choice to love God.
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The Catholic proposition is spread through osmosis.
 
LittleSoldier said:
I believe the word “will,” when used in reference to God, encompasses all His will. When we pray the Lord’s Prayer, we pray that all God’s will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. I think bringing plurality into this is an error.
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I agree. God does not have a plurality of will.
LittleSoldier said:
I have to leave now. Really. I’m very ill and I can’t stay on the forums. I’ve already left once and I received a request to come back and did so, but I just can’t do this physically or emotionally right now.

I’m sorry we are not on good terms at this point; please believe me when I say I love you as my brother/sister in Christ and I know you are a good person and I wish only joy, peace, and wisdom for you and for every person on CAF.

I will miss you.
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You are on my prayer list, and I wish you well.

On some things we probably have to “agree to disagree.”
🙂
 
buffalo said:
The Catholic proposition is spread through osmosis.
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Everyone knows it’s really spread via capillary action.

Bye, Buffalo. I should let you know that we eat your kind where I live. A lot of your kind. Buffalo hamburgers, steaks, roasts, etc.

God bless you.
 
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