Many Adams and Eves?

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If you haven’t figured it out yet Adam and Eve have far reaching implications.
Agreed about the far reaching implications.

Here are some of the Catechism paragraphs regarding Adam and Eve, Genesis 1:26-31, * "Then God said: “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. …”–
2402
, 307*, 1602*, 36*, 225, 299*, 343*, 2501, 2809, 355, 383, 1604*, 2331, 2415*, 372, 373, 1604, 1607*, 1652, 2331, 2427*, 299, 1604*.
I am not sure why the order is this way, but I think it is due to how the Catechism is arranged.

In the back of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, following the last paragraph, there is the “Index of Citations” page 689. References from the Old Testament are listed first, starting with Genesis 1: 1-2: 4. The arabic number( s) to the right is the text paragraph number(s). The asterisk following a text paragraph number indicates that the citation has been paraphrased. For example, the text paragraph number for Genesis 1: 1-2:4 is paragraph 337.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is sacred because of Adam.
 
His research is based on the foundational belief that the history

of human origins is found in the divergence of chimps and humans from a “common ancestor” about 5,000,000 years ago. Unfortunately from what is known in genetic science this is extremely unlikely.

It is known that there are at least 100 million mutations that separate human DNA from chimp DNA. How could you get 100 million mutations to sweep through the **whole human population **in only 5 million years?

Suppose that today I acquire a beneficial mutation that can be passed on to my children. How long would it take for the beneficial mutation to sweep through the whole human race? Think about it, this mutation would have to be SO beneficial, that MY descendants will out compete the descendants of everybody else in the world, so that eventually everyone in the world is one of MY descendants. How many years would that take? And that is just to add ONE beneficial mutation to the human genome

Seems like it might take 5 million years just to sweep one mutation through the human population. It would take a shorter time for a sweep if the human population was smaller (say 10,000 individuals), but it would still probably take many many thousands of years for ONE mutation to sweep through the population. To get 100 million mutations in 5 million years, you would have to sweep 20 mutations through the population EVERY YEAR! That’s not possible
No, it’s not extremely unlikely.
Well if my math or logic are wrong please point it out, better still, since you are in correspondence with Fransico Ayala, I give you permission to send my post to him so he can review and answer for you.
 
It does not mention them directly.

However, it would be a good program for you to catch if you get a chance.

It discusses the IQ of the universe.

If you haven’t figured it out yet Adam and Eve have far reaching implications.
The far reaching implications are basically summed up in catholic dogma, unless I am mistaken.

Sorry, I really did not mean to be nitpicky, I have listened to EWTN online, and Relevant Radio. I just thought you were posting something that related to the Adam Eve topic.
 
What questions did you ask your friend? Possibly you have confused me with another poster?

Obviously, the points Francisco J. Ayala refered to have nothing to do with my basic analyical position regarding the practices used in natural science research.

For those interested in Catholic history, I believe the word unicity is similar to an older word used in Catholic teaching. Since I am traveling, I do not have access to this information. However, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, makes a number of strong points on the issue of the unity of the human race.

For now, I will repeat the Catholic teaching that there are two sole parents of the human species.

Blessings,
granny

Human Nature is Sacred.
Holding the unity of the human race is essential. Adam and Eve in Genesis as individual beings the sole parents is not.
 
Holding the unity of the human race is essential. Adam and Eve in Genesis as individual beings the sole parents is not.
I may be misunderstanding you. Adam and Eve (or Jane and John Doe) as the two sole parents of the human species is definitely essential in order to maintain following Catholic doctrines.
 
The more we come to understand as humans. The more we realize the teaching of the Bible is true. That has been the scientific fact. Nothing in contrast has ever been proven.
“A scientific theory is more than just a hunch. It’s more like a question that’s been put to through a lot of tests!” – Science is Real, They Might Be Giants

Aside from the virtual total agreement among the scientific community that the theory of natural selection is generally sound and the total lack of any peer-reviewed publication of studies supporting either “creation science” or “intelligent design,” there are factual tests that demonstrate your statement to be demonstraby false without the need to positively assert the validity of the theory of evolution.

First, there is more genetic variability in the human population than can be explained by our having descended from a single fertile human couple living 7-10 thousand years ago. Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers wrote honestly about this on his blog a few years back.

Second, through tracing specific genetic signatures in the human population (“haplotypes”) geneticists are capable of tracing the migration patterns of human beings from their putative ancestral homelands (e.g,. Israel for Jews), back tens of thousands of years to east central Africa. Incidentally, the indigenous people currently living in that part of Africa have far greater genetic variabilty than do other similarly-sized indigenous populations in Europe (e.g., Lapps of Scandinavia), Asia (e.g., Tamils of Sri Lanka and India), Australia (e.g., aborignal Australian), or the Americas (e.g., Mayans of Mesoamerica). Much of this technique is possible because the DNA in our mitochondria is conserved over many generations, and we receive it from our mothers. Also, the DNA in mens’ Y-chromosomes is also well-preserved over many generations. Therefore, you can take a swab of the inside of your cheek, send it to National Geographic or many other companies, and they will tell you where your deep ancestral DNA came from. Using these techniques, scientists have been able to identify where the genetic makeup of the human population got split up, as people migrated from a central population (in Africa) to different parts of the world, carrying slightly different components of the orignal mix. Hence, you can identify genetic differences between Poles and Russians based on their deep ancestral divergences in geography (e.g., Kievan Rus was settled by Norse viking colonists, whose ancestors came from Scandanavia).

Using these techniques, scientists have been able to estimate the likely year at which our most recent common ancestors (MRCA), male and female, likely existed. Using mitochondrial DNA to identify “mitochondrial Eve” and Y-chromosome DNA to identify “Y-chromosome Adam,” scientists have estimated that these two different MRCAs lived tens of thousands of years apart.

We don’t need to talk about evolution to discuss how the human family tree spread over time. Even without discussing how new species come into being, there’s plenty of evidence that we must read Genesis figuratively.

Without even talking about biology, most modern biblical scholarship of which I’m aware indicates that most of the Pentateuch was written after the prophetic books of the 7th-9th centuries BC. If that’s the case, Genesis must be viewed allegorically, as early Church scholars such as Origen did.
 
Aside from the virtual total agreement among the scientific community that the theory of natural selection is generally sound and the total lack of any peer-reviewed publication of studies supporting either “creation science” or “intelligent design,” there are factual tests that demonstrate your statement to be demonstraby false without the need to positively assert the validity of the theory of evolution.

First, there is more genetic variability in the human population than can be explained by our having descended from a single fertile human couple living 7-10 thousand years ago. Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers wrote honestly about this on his blog a few years back.

Second, through tracing specific genetic signatures in the human population (“haplotypes”) geneticists are capable of tracing the migration patterns of human beings from their putative ancestral homelands (e.g,. Israel for Jews), back tens of thousands of years to east central Africa. Incidentally, the indigenous people currently living in that part of Africa have far greater genetic variabilty than do other similarly-sized indigenous populations in Europe (e.g., Lapps of Scandinavia), Asia (e.g., Tamils of Sri Lanka and India), Australia (e.g., aborignal Australian), or the Americas (e.g., Mayans of Mesoamerica). Much of this technique is possible because the DNA in our mitochondria is conserved over many generations, and we receive it from our mothers. Also, the DNA in mens’ Y-chromosomes is also well-preserved over many generations. Therefore, you can take a swab of the inside of your cheek, send it to National Geographic or many other companies, and they will tell you where your deep ancestral DNA came from. Using these techniques, scientists have been able to identify where the genetic makeup of the human population got split up, as people migrated from a central population (in Africa) to different parts of the world, carrying slightly different components of the orignal mix. Hence, you can identify genetic differences between Poles and Russians based on their deep ancestral divergences in geography (e.g., Kievan Rus was settled by Norse viking colonists, whose ancestors came from Scandanavia).

Using these techniques, scientists have been able to estimate the likely year at which our most recent common ancestors (MRCA), male and female, likely existed. Using mitochondrial DNA to identify “mitochondrial Eve” and Y-chromosome DNA to identify “Y-chromosome Adam,” scientists have estimated that these two different MRCAs lived tens of thousands of years apart.

We don’t need to talk about evolution to discuss how the human family tree spread over time. Even without discussing how new species come into being, there’s plenty of evidence that we must read Genesis figuratively.

Without even talking about biology, most modern biblical scholarship of which I’m aware indicates that most of the Pentateuch was written after the prophetic books of the 7th-9th centuries BC. If that’s the case, Genesis must be viewed allegorically, as early Church scholars such as Origen did.
Peer-Reviewed & Peer-Edited Scientific Publications Supporting the Theory of Intelligent Design

In addition, the molecular clock rate is not constant as assumed.
 
We don’t need to talk about evolution to discuss how the human family tree spread over time. Even without discussing how new species come into being, there’s plenty of evidence that we must read Genesis figuratively.

Without even talking about biology, most modern biblical scholarship of which I’m aware indicates that most of the Pentateuch was written after the prophetic books of the 7th-9th centuries BC. If that’s the case, Genesis must be viewed allegorically, as early Church scholars such as Origen did.
The date of *Genesis 1: 26 - 31 *is totally irrelevant to its objective truth as defined by the Catholic Church. Catholic teaching is that there are two real not figurative and not allegorically sole parents of the human species.
 
Using mitochondrial DNA to “mitochondrial Eve” and Y-chromosome DNA to identify “Y-chromosomal Adam”, scientists have estimated that these two different MRCAs lived tens of thousands of years apart.
Actually they lived 50,000-80,000 years apart. “Adam” and “Eve” never met, mated, or had children together
We don’t need to talk about evolution to discuss how the human family tree spread over time. Even without discussing how new species come into being, there’s plenty of evidence that we must read Genesis figuratively.
As theologians have done for centuries.
Without even talking about biology, most modern biblical scholarship of which I’m aware indicates that most of the Pentateuch was written after the prophetic books of the 7th-9th centuries BC. If that’s the case, Genesis must be viewed allegorically, as early Church scholars such as Origen did.
You will soon discover that many on CAF reject the historical-critical interpretation of the bible as “modernist heresy.”
 
The date of *Genesis 1: 26 - 31 *is totally irrelevant to its objective truth as defined by the Catholic Church. Catholic teaching is that there are two real not figurative and not allegorically sole parents of the human species.
You will have to explain how it is possible for two sole parents to have had children when "Eve died 50,000-80,000 years before “Adam.” Necrophilia is not only morally problematic, but it is invariably a sterile relationship.
 
Actually they lived 50,000-80,000 years apart. “Adam” and “Eve” never met, mated, or had children together

As theologians have done for centuries.

You will soon discover that many on CAF reject the historical-critical interpretation of the bible as “modernist heresy.”
As I corrected you before - do not attach Adam and Eve to the mtDNA female and the Y-chromosome male. It is wrong and disengenuous.
 
As I corrected you before - do not attach Adam and Eve to the mtDNA female and the Y-chromosome male. It is wrong and disengenuous.
Then what “Adam” and “Eve” are you talking about? Did they live before “Mitochondrial Eve”, that is, before 200,000 years ago? That’s going to wreak havoc with your literal interpretation of the genealogies in Genesis, Matthew, and Luke.
 
You will have to explain how it is possible for two sole parents to have had children when "Eve died 50,000-80,000 years before “Adam.” Necrophilia is not only morally problematic, but it is invariably a sterile relationship.
Please. Do not confuse me with other posters. Please. Pretty please with sugar on it.

The analysis of both Alec and Francisco J. Ayala have convinced me that this particular Eve hypothesis does not apply to the original Eve as parent of the human species. Also, other reasonable arguments have been presented regarding why this particular Eve hypothesis cannot coincide with Catholic teaching.

So why are you asking me to explain something that I have never promoted?

Blessings,
granny

The human person is the apple of God’s eye.
 
The analysis of both Alec and Francisco J. Ayala have convinced me that this particular Eve hypothesis does not apply to the original Eve as parent of the human species. Also, other reasonable arguments have been presented regarding why this particular Eve hypothesis cannot coincide with Catholic teaching.
So why are you asking me to explain something that I have never promoted?
 
You are promoting either this or a comparable “scientific” argument for a literal interpretation of the Adam and Eve allegory.
I will accept your reasoning as yours personally, but see no need to respond since my position has been clearly stated in previous posts and in now closed threads. For the foundation of my position, please refer to the citation below.

Blessings,
granny

Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put paragraph numbers and topics such as Adam, etc. in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
Scientific evidence supports the conclusion that all humans did not descend from just one pair of humans, but a small group of humans with the population at lowest being 1000. Offiial Church teaching contradicts this, and says that the faithful must accept that we are descended from a literal Adam and Eve. Is this a contradiction between faith and reason?
Your initial assumption that science supports that we did not descend from one pair of humans has been recently disproven. In recent articles in either Nature magazine or Scientific American (can’t remember which, sorry), it has been recently tested via current genetic findings and some complicated programming, that 1) all gene strands so far collected around the world in genetic banks can be traced back to a single ‘baseline’ genetic DNA strand.
2) Followon programs added the that the model showed tracing back to a single female DNA strand and a single male DNA strand.

In many cases, Science has come to a point of confirming the theological beliefs inherent in the laws of nature (eg. The big bang theory, the great flood, etc.)

So your question should be answered with “contradictions between science and faith are so only because science has not caught up with faith.”
 
Your initial assumption that science supports that we did not descend from one pair of humans has been recently disproven.
No, it has not been disproven.
In recent articles in either Nature magazine or Scientific American (can’t remember which, sorry), it has been recently tested via current genetic findings and some complicated programming, that 1) all gene strands so far collected around the world in genetic banks can be traced back to a single ‘baseline’ genetic DNA strand.
2) Followon programs added the that the model showed tracing back to a single female DNA strand and a single male DNA strand.
Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
In many cases, Science has come to a point of confirming the theological beliefs inherent in the laws of nature (eg. The big bang theory, the great flood, etc.)
The Big Bang is a scientific theory, not a theological one. Of course, it is consonant with the poetic exclamation “let there be light” of Genesis 1:3. The story of Noah’s Flood has no been read literally for at least 150 years, at least not by anyone who understands geology and hydrology.
 
I may be misunderstanding you. Adam and Eve (or Jane and John Doe) as the two sole parents of the human species is definitely essential in order to maintain following Catholic doctrines.
God is the sole “parent” of the human race. Adam and Eve, in Genesis, may be literal two sole “parents” or may be metaphors/allegories. Or both.
 
God is the sole “parent” of the human race. Adam and Eve, in Genesis, may be literal two sole “parents” or may be metaphors/allegories. Or both.
If they are two sole parents of all humanity, then reason Jesus needed to give his life for us to “pay” for our sins makes sense. If they are a metaphor/allegory that means:-

-all sin could not be passed onto all people via descendancy
-if multiple Adam and Eves existed, why would the sin of one set have affected the other
-Jesus wouldn’t need to be called the “last Adam”
-God didn’t make them male and female in the beginning since the assumption is we have come from male and female apes

If Genesis stories are allegorical/metaphorical then where does the myth stop and reality start.
 
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