Many Christians Call Mary Blessed, But how many of us, call Her Mother?

[ufamtobie]

It was not only for John’s benefit. It was also for Mary’s benefit.

Do you know who John is? I’ll tell you. John is the guy who, at Jesus’ request, took Mary into his household as an actual part of his family.

You must be the other guy.

Monergistic,

Correct, it was for Virgin Mary’s benefit as well, because Our Lord from the cross told her that She is the mother of all Christians, and we Her sons and daughters. Amen

Monergistic, does this mean you are finally coming to believe it was both Mary’s benefit Johns benefit and ours. Amen

So you to must be Like St. John:thumbsup: and Take Virgin Mary as your own.

Ufam Tobie

 

[Mickey]

Panagia…Theotokos…Most Holy Mother of God!

 

[Monergistic]

Correct, it was for Virgin Mary’s benefit as well, because Our Lord from the cross told her that She is the mother of all Christians, and we Her sons and daughters. Amen

Yes, it was to Mary’s benefit.

But no, it was not because anyone named her mother of all- it was for Mary’s benefit because she got hooked up with someone that would help take care of her. That was her benefit.

 

[Monergistic]

Yes you can,by inviting Mary into your heart,embracing her as your spiritual Mother.

But that’s not what John did, nor is it what Jesus asked of him. And even more to the point, Jesus wasn’t asking anything of anyone except for John.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

But that’s not what John did, nor is it what Jesus asked of him. And even more to the point, Jesus wasn’t asking anything of anyone except for John.

The early Christians and theologians do not agree with you. They interpreted those verses as John being symbolic of all humanity.

Just as all of Eve’s children are cursed, all of Mary’s children have hope of salvation.
Mary is the New Eve, the Ark of the New Covenant.
Eve believed an evil angel and brought evil, destruction and spiritual death to mankind. Mary believed a good angel and brought hope and grace for all humanity when she submitted to Gods will and bore Our Lord.

St. Paul refers to Christ as the Head and the Church as the Body. Head and Body make up the entire and whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.

Now, if we say that Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Head of the Body, then it must be that she gave birth to the entire Body since a true body cannot be separated. It would mean that she gave birth to the members as well. In giving physical birth to Jesus, we can say that Mary made it possible for us to receive spiritual life through Him. We were dead, and through Him we have come back to life. And it was Mary’s “yes” at the Annunciation that made our rebirth possible. To question this is to question the plan of God. For it was He who decided from all eternity that it would be so.

In the year 130 Irenaeus wrote about her. He was familiar with those who had been close both to Peter and to Paul and who “had still the preaching of the blessed Apostles ringing in their ears”. He said:

“As Eve was seduced by the speech of an angel, so as to flee God in transgressing his word, so also Mary received the good tidings by means of the angel’s speech, so as to be God within her, being obedient to this word. And though the one had disobeyed God, yet the other was drawn to obey him; that of the virgin Eve, the virgin Mary might become the advocate and as by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved- a virgin’s disobedience by a virgin’ obedience.” (St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3, 19) (175-185 A.D.)

**St. Justin Martyr ( 110-165 A.D.) writes:
**
For whereas Eve, yet a virgin and undefiled, through conceiving the word that came from the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death; the Virgin Mary, taking faith and joy, when the Angel told her the good tidings that the Spirit of the Lord should come upon her, and the power of the Most High overshadow her, and therefore the Holy One to be born of her should be the Son of God, answered, Be it done to me according to thy word. And so by means of her was he born, concerning whom we have shown so many Scriptures were spoken; through whom God overthrows the serpent, and those angels and men who have become like to it, and on the other hand, works deliverance from death for such as repent of their evil doings and believe in him (St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, c. 160 A.D.)

**St. Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 310-403) writes:
**
Eve was called the mother of the living …after the fall this title was given to her. True it is…the whole race of man upon earth was born from Eve; but in reality it is from Mary the Life was truly born to the world. So that by giving birth to the Living One, Mary became the mother of all living (St. Epiphanius, Against Eighty Heresies, 78,9, written c. 374)

One of the oldest catacombs contains a drawing of the Madonna and Child dating back to the second century, and the oldest known request to Mary, the “Sub Tuum Praesidium”, dates back to at least 300 AD!

We fly to your patronage, O holy Theotokos2;
despise not our petition in our necessities,
but deliver us always from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and blessed Virgin.

The video below explains some of what Catholics believe wrt Mary.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

 

[MartinJordan]

But that’s not what John did, nor is it what Jesus asked of him. And even more to the point, Jesus wasn’t asking anything of anyone except for John.

Where do you get your exegesis that makes you certain about what Jesus was asking? From yourself or any of your pastors/teacher’s?

MJ

 

[GaryTaylor]

I start with… I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

then…

Hail Mary!

Woman, Behold Your Son! Son, Behold Your Mother!

Our Heavenly Mother.

Salvation is of Christ Jesus

 

[Protos]

I personally feel uncomfortable referring to Mary as my “mother” as I see no biblical warrant for the term. I see her rather as my beloved older sister in Christ - sister since we have the same Father

In terms of the biblical evidence I am convinced Mary in terms of role only, is no longer the mother of Christ.

When Jesus starts His public ministry He never refers to Mary as “mother” or “mum”, but as “woman” - a rather impersonal distancing of Himself from her.

Again in Mark 3:

*Then his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to him and called him.
32 A crowd was sitting around him; and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers and sisters are outside asking for you.”
33 And he replied, “**Who are my mother **and brothers?”
34 And looking at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!
35 **Whoever **does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother” *

Again it seems clear to me He’s no longer recognising Mary in her motherly role. In fact He indicates all who follow Him are His mother, sisters and brothers.

The final break appears in John 19:25- 28

Mary would undoubtedly have had that motherly instinct and feeling towards Jesus, and would have suffered as any mother would seeing her son’s suffering. What I suspect Jesus is doing here is telling her gently she has to see Him now not as her son, but as her Saviour and Lord. Look! Take John to replace me! Love him and care him like you did me!

 

[GaryTaylor]

I personally feel uncomfortable referring to Mary as my “mother” as I see no biblical warrant for the term. I see her rather as my beloved older sister in Christ - sister since we have the same Father

In terms of the biblical evidence I am convinced Mary in terms of role only, is no longer the mother of Christ.

When Jesus starts His public ministry He never refers to Mary as “mother” or “mum”, but as “woman” - a rather impersonal distancing of Himself from her.

Again in Mark 3:

*Then his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to him and called him.
32 A crowd was sitting around him; and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers and sisters are outside asking for you.”
33 And he replied, “**Who are my mother ***and brothers?”
34 And looking at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!
35 **Whoever **does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother”

Again it seems clear to me He’s no longer recognising Mary in her motherly role. In fact He indicates all who follow Him are His mother, sisters and brothers.

The final break appears in John 19:25- 28

Mary would undoubtedly have had that motherly instinct and feeling towards Jesus, and would have suffered as any mother would seeing her son’s suffering. What I suspect Jesus is doing here is telling her gently she has to see Him now not as her son, but as her Saviour and Lord. Look! Take John to replace me! Love him and care him like you did me!

Disagree

Woman is a direct relation to Genesis, and the continuity continues through the NT, Wedding of Cana, above as mentioned, Revelation etc

This new theory of a break is from whom?

Luke -The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you”

When did this reality become not a reality?

And this; “Whoever does the will of God, is my brother and sister and mother”

Jesus refers to Mother, being His Mother, as in doing the will of God, so whomever does the same, is all of the above in a spiritual sense of worship, there is no carnal aspect of the spiritual.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I personally feel uncomfortable referring to Mary as my “mother” as I see no biblical warrant for the term. I see her rather as my beloved older sister in Christ - sister since we have the same Father

In terms of the biblical evidence I am convinced Mary in terms of role only, is no longer the mother of Christ.

When Jesus starts His public ministry He never refers to Mary as “mother” or “mum”, but as “woman” - a rather impersonal distancing of Himself from her.

Again in Mark 3:

*Then his mother and his brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to him and called him.
32 A crowd was sitting around him; and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers and sisters are outside asking for you.”
33 And he replied, “**Who are my mother ***and brothers?”
34 And looking at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!
35 **Whoever **does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother”

Again it seems clear to me He’s no longer recognising Mary in her motherly role. In fact He indicates all who follow Him are His mother, sisters and brothers.

The final break appears in John 19:25- 28

Mary would undoubtedly have had that motherly instinct and feeling towards Jesus, and would have suffered as any mother would seeing her son’s suffering. What I suspect Jesus is doing here is telling her gently she has to see Him now not as her son, but as her Saviour and Lord. Look! Take John to replace me! Love him and care him like you did me!

I don’t think Jesus would ask her not to see him as her son, that would be disrespectful to his mother and we know that Jesus never sinned therefore he would never break a Commandment. He honoured Mary and Joseph, they were his parents.

This short video explains Mary’s role clearly.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

 

[Jeanne_S]

But that’s not what John did, nor is it what Jesus asked of him. And even more to the point, Jesus wasn’t asking anything of anyone except for John.

Wow!

 

[holyrood]

Where do you get your exegesis that makes you certain about what Jesus was asking? From yourself or any of your pastors/teacher’s?

MJ

This is really what it all boils down to. By whose authority do we believe what we believe?

My education (bachelor’s, master’s, teaching certificate, and 30+ years of reading on my own) have shown me how very little any one person can know in a lifetime. Yet we have 17 year olds telling us what the Bible really meant. (And I’m not referring to anyone here–if anyone on this thread happens to be 17, I was unaware.)

So who am I going to believe: an institution that has survived more than 2,000 years, its teachings supported by great saints and great theologians? The collective wisdom of millions of great, prayerful saints and great minds over 2,000 years? The word of Jesus that ‘you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church?’ Or an individual–be that Martin Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Mary Eddy Baker, Wesley, my next door neighbor–who claims in the space of 17 or 25 or 45 years to have out-thought and out-prayed them all? How would I choose from among the 40 thousand Protestant denominations? Which of them has the authority? And on what is their authority based? Every time someone disagrees with their current church, they are free to establish their own church based on their own interpretation of the Bible. Why would I choose one of them over the other? By contrast, I know exactly why I would choose the Church founded by Jesus.

I do not mean this as a slam on any other denomination* or any person*. In fact, I greatly admire the Mormons’ dedication to living their faith, for instance. I admire *anyone *who lives their faith, who lives with charity and kindness toward others, and I can tell you from personal experience that I know a Shinto-ist swinger who *behaves *with more genuine Christian charity than some ‘devout Catholics’ I know.

It is a theological comment on why I believe what the Catholic Church has to say…and hence a big part of why I ask Mary to be my mother.

To add, I believe in the communion of saints, that we are all the church together, that those who have gone before can still pray for me, and who better to pray for me than Mary herself? Who better to pray for those things I need from a mother than Mary herself? If she could raise God, perhaps she can do something with me!

 

[Jeanne_S]

This is really what it all boils down to. By whose authority do we believe what we believe?

My education (bachelor’s, master’s, teaching certificate, and 30+ years of reading on my own) have shown me how very little any one person can know in a lifetime. Yet we have 17 year olds telling us what the Bible really meant. (And I’m not referring to anyone here–if anyone on this thread happens to be 17, I was unaware.)

So who am I going to believe: an institution that has survived more than 2,000 years, its teachings supported by great saints and great theologians? The collective wisdom of millions of great, prayerful saints and great minds over 2,000 years? The word of Jesus that ‘you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church?’ Or an individual–be that Martin Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Mary Eddy Baker, Wesley, my next door neighbor–who claims in the space of 17 or 25 or 45 years to have out-thought and out-prayed them all? How would I choose from among the 40 thousand Protestant denominations? Which of them has the authority? And on what is their authority based? Every time someone disagrees with their current church, they are free to establish their own church based on their own interpretation of the Bible. Why would I choose one of them over the other? By contrast, I know exactly why I would choose the Church founded by Jesus.

I do not mean this as a slam on any other denomination* or any person*. In fact, I greatly admire the Mormons’ dedication to living their faith, for instance. I admire *anyone *who lives their faith, who lives with charity and kindness toward others, and I can tell you from personal experience that I know a Shinto-ist swinger who *behaves *with more genuine Christian charity than some ‘devout Catholics’ I know.

It is a theological comment on why I believe what the Catholic Church has to say…and hence a big part of why I ask Mary to be my mother.

To add, I believe in the communion of saints, that we are all the church together, that those who have gone before can still pray for me, and who better to pray for me than Mary herself? Who better to pray for those things I need from a mother than Mary herself? If she could raise God, perhaps she can do something with me!

 

[JonNC]

John 19: 26,27 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

Many of us Call Mary Blessed, and rightfully so, for the angel Gabriel said “Blessed art thou among woman”. And again many of us do because of what Angle Gabriel stated.

But their is someone greater than Gabriel, and that is Jesus Christ who states “Behold thy Mother”. If we listen to the angle Gabriel and call Mary Blessed why don’t many Listen to our Lord and call Mary our Mother?

Christians, if you are not calling Mary thy Mother why not?

And why don’t you take Her, as your own?

Ufam Tobie

Hey Ufam. Can you guess the author of this quote?

Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees…If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).

I will give you a hint: you’ve stated recently on another thread that you think he was controlled/influenced by Satan.

As Christ is my brother, Mary is my Mother.

Jon

 

[Denimguy]

If we are adopted sons of God and brothers of Jesus, it would seem that his mother Mary would be our adoptive mother also. Galatians tells us we are sons and heirs through God.

 

[Monergistic]

If we are adopted sons of God and brothers of Jesus, it would seem that his mother Mary would be our adoptive mother also. Galatians tells us we are sons and heirs through God.

Or maybe she’s a sister of mine in a spiritual sense while also being the mother of Jesus in a physical sense. My own mother (my actual mother) is a sister in Christ, you know. She’s also my mother in the conventional sense, but relative to Christ, we are adopted brothers and sisters like everyone else.

 

[WorkingFaith]

The early Christians and theologians do not agree with you. They interpreted those verses as John being symbolic of all humanity.

Just as all of Eve’s children are cursed, all of Mary’s children have hope of salvation.
Mary is the New Eve, the Ark of the New Covenant.
Eve believed an evil angel and brought evil, destruction and spiritual death to mankind. Mary believed a good angel and brought hope and grace for all humanity when she submitted to Gods will and bore Our Lord.

St. Paul refers to Christ as the Head and the Church as the Body. Head and Body make up the entire and whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.

Now, if we say that Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Head of the Body, then it must be that she gave birth to the entire Body since a true body cannot be separated. It would mean that she gave birth to the members as well. In giving physical birth to Jesus, we can say that Mary made it possible for us to receive spiritual life through Him. We were dead, and through Him we have come back to life. And it was Mary’s “yes” at the Annunciation that made our rebirth possible. To question this is to question the plan of God. For it was He who decided from all eternity that it would be so.

In the year 130 Irenaeus wrote about her. He was familiar with those who had been close both to Peter and to Paul and who “had still the preaching of the blessed Apostles ringing in their ears”. He said:

“As Eve was seduced by the speech of an angel, so as to flee God in transgressing his word, so also Mary received the good tidings by means of the angel’s speech, so as to be God within her, being obedient to this word. And though the one had disobeyed God, yet the other was drawn to obey him; that of the virgin Eve, the virgin Mary might become the advocate and as by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved- a virgin’s disobedience by a virgin’ obedience.” (St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3, 19) (175-185 A.D.)

**St. Justin Martyr ( 110-165 A.D.) writes:
**
For whereas Eve, yet a virgin and undefiled, through conceiving the word that came from the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death; the Virgin Mary, taking faith and joy, when the Angel told her the good tidings that the Spirit of the Lord should come upon her, and the power of the Most High overshadow her, and therefore the Holy One to be born of her should be the Son of God, answered, Be it done to me according to thy word. And so by means of her was he born, concerning whom we have shown so many Scriptures were spoken; through whom God overthrows the serpent, and those angels and men who have become like to it, and on the other hand, works deliverance from death for such as repent of their evil doings and believe in him (St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, c. 160 A.D.)

**St. Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 310-403) writes:
**
Eve was called the mother of the living …after the fall this title was given to her. True it is…the whole race of man upon earth was born from Eve; but in reality it is from Mary the Life was truly born to the world. So that by giving birth to the Living One, Mary became the mother of all living (St. Epiphanius, Against Eighty Heresies, 78,9, written c. 374)

One of the oldest catacombs contains a drawing of the Madonna and Child dating back to the second century, and the oldest known request to Mary, the “Sub Tuum Praesidium”, dates back to at least 300 AD!

We fly to your patronage, O holy Theotokos2;
despise not our petition in our necessities,
but deliver us always from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and blessed Virgin.

The video below explains some of what Catholics believe wrt Mary.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

My wife is catholic and I am protestant (go to a baptist church although I don’t accept all of their doctrine). Anyways, I am honestly just curious not trying to cause anyone to freak out so please don’t post back that way. I understand the idea that she is our “Mother” and i don’t mean anything negative by the " ". My issue with Mary is how highly she is regarded. I think she should be honored no doubt her faith was unshakeable but can you provide any old teaching on Mary being sinless? I know that the idea of Mary being born of a virgin comes from the protovagelium of James but why is she considered to live a sinless life? I’m not going to quote any scripture because I’m sure you have already heard it and that would just be a waste of time. I commented on your post because you provided some old church teachings. Thanks.

 

[MaryT777]

Hey Ufam. Can you guess the author of this quote?

I will give you a hint: you’ve stated recently on another thread that you think he was controlled/influenced by Satan.

As Christ is my brother, Mary is my Mother.

Jon

Jon…
who is Martin Luther?

 

[concretecamper]

WorkingFaith:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAVINGRACE

The early Christians and theologians do not agree with you. They interpreted those verses as John being symbolic of all humanity.

Just as all of Eve’s children are cursed, all of Mary’s children have hope of salvation.
Mary is the New Eve, the Ark of the New Covenant.
Eve believed an evil angel and brought evil, destruction and spiritual death to mankind. Mary believed a good angel and brought hope and grace for all humanity when she submitted to Gods will and bore Our Lord.

St. Paul refers to Christ as the Head and the Church as the Body. Head and Body make up the entire and whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.

Now, if we say that Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Head of the Body, then it must be that she gave birth to the entire Body since a true body cannot be separated. It would mean that she gave birth to the members as well. In giving physical birth to Jesus, we can say that Mary made it possible for us to receive spiritual life through Him. We were dead, and through Him we have come back to life. And it was Mary’s “yes†at the Annunciation that made our rebirth possible. To question this is to question the plan of God. For it was He who decided from all eternity that it would be so.

In the year 130 Irenaeus wrote about her. He was familiar with those who had been close both to Peter and to Paul and who “had still the preaching of the blessed Apostles ringing in their ears”. He said:

“As Eve was seduced by the speech of an angel, so as to flee God in transgressing his word, so also Mary received the good tidings by means of the angel’s speech, so as to be God within her, being obedient to this word. And though the one had disobeyed God, yet the other was drawn to obey him; that of the virgin Eve, the virgin Mary might become the advocate and as by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved- a virgin’s disobedience by a virgin’ obedience.” (St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3, 19) (175-185 A.D.)

St. Justin Martyr ( 110-165 A.D.) writes:

For whereas Eve, yet a virgin and undefiled, through conceiving the word that came from the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death; the Virgin Mary, taking faith and joy, when the Angel told her the good tidings that the Spirit of the Lord should come upon her, and the power of the Most High overshadow her, and therefore the Holy One to be born of her should be the Son of God, answered, Be it done to me according to thy word. And so by means of her was he born, concerning whom we have shown so many Scriptures were spoken; through whom God overthrows the serpent, and those angels and men who have become like to it, and on the other hand, works deliverance from death for such as repent of their evil doings and believe in him (St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, c. 160 A.D.)

St. Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 310-403) writes:

Eve was called the mother of the living …after the fall this title was given to her. True it is…the whole race of man upon earth was born from Eve; but in reality it is from Mary the Life was truly born to the world. So that by giving birth to the Living One, Mary became the mother of all living (St. Epiphanius, Against Eighty Heresies, 78,9, written c. 374)

One of the oldest catacombs contains a drawing of the Madonna and Child dating back to the second century, and the oldest known request to Mary, the “Sub Tuum Praesidium”, dates back to at least 300 AD!

We fly to your patronage, O holy Theotokos2;
despise not our petition in our necessities,
but deliver us always from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and blessed Virgin.

The video below explains some of what Catholics believe wrt Mary.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

My wife is catholic and I am protestant (go to a baptist church although I don’t accept all of their doctrine). Anyways, I am honestly just curious not trying to cause anyone to freak out so please don’t post back that way. I understand the idea that she is our “Mother” and i don’t mean anything negative by the " ". My issue with Mary is how highly she is regarded. I think she should be honored no doubt her faith was unshakeable but can you provide any old teaching on Mary being sinless? I know that the idea of Mary being born of a virgin comes from the protovagelium of James but why is she considered to live a sinless life? I’m not going to quote any scripture because I’m sure you have already heard it and that would just be a waste of time. I commented on your post because you provided some old church teachings. Thanks.

How about an old comparison. The Jews revered the Ark of the Covenant. Inside this ark was the Word of God ( the stone tablets, some say the law), Aaron’s rod, and a jar of manna. The Jews were not committing idolatry by revering the ark. Well Mary contained inside her the Word made flesh, the King of Kings who would rule with an iron rod, and the living bread come down from heaven. If the Jews revered a shadow of what was to come, how much more appropriate that we honor and revere Mary. As such the apostle John introduces to us in Revelations the ark of the covenant… A Woman. Read the end of Rev 11 and 12 without a chapter break. Remember that the chapters were installed later.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[JonNC]

Jon…
who is Martin Luther?

$400 and control of the board.
Jon