Many Questions

[seekingwithhope]

Not sure if all of this belongs here or not so please direct me to the correct forum if need be. I’m currently dating a very strong Protestant who has a lot of issues with Catholicism. In trying to explain things to her she’s raised many questions I’ve either never thought of or see’s particular passages of scripture very differently.

Eucharist: I’m well versed in explaining the bread of life discourse in John 6 so no problem there. Issue is with the numerous other times that Jesus and Paul say do this in remembrance. She see’s a conflict between remembrance and actual body and blood. Not sure how to explain that one. We are certainly remembering him, but it’s more.
She also brought up Matt 26:29 where he says “I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from not until…” This seems to indicate that Christ himself is calling it symbolic now. How do we reconcile this?

Receiving the eucharist: Why do Catholics deny Protestants but not vis-versa. I know it deals with unity and there’s disunity between us so we shouldn’t share a meal. But then doesn’t that indicate we shouldn’t be sharing any meals together? I tried to highlight that the Lord’s Supper is a BIT different from an ordinary meal, but she flatly disagreed citing Cor 10:30-31 : whether eating or drinking, do all to the glory of God. Not sure how to respond to this either seeing as there’s no caveat there.

Thanks - More questions to follow I’m sure

 

[zz912]

1. Dig deeper into the word “remembrance” and don’t rely on our understanding of the word “remember” in 21st century English. It means much more. It is making the actual event present. There are a couple great articles on here about it. Others can help to link as I’m on my phone.
2. Fruit of the vine is just a euphemism. He transformed the third cup for the Seder meal into His Body and Blood. The important point Jesus was telling was that He was abruptly ending the Seder meal early without drinking the 4th cup, which would have shocked the Apostles. He drank the 4th cup on the cross to complete the Passover and complete His Pascal sacrifice. Youtube Scott Hahn’s talk about the 4th cup to explain more.
3. We restrict Communion to only Catholics in a state of grace because of St Paul’s warning in 1 Cor that partaking when not in a state of grace or outside the Church means to bring judgment upon ourselves. The Church is protecting souls by doing so.

 

[Auntie_A]

It’s a standard based on the Real Presence. If my ritual is symbolic, anyone can participate; if my ritual is real, I want to make sure that the participants are those who honor that reality and keep it real.

I strongly urge you to study more about the differences and similarities whether you pursue her or not, but especially if you continue to date. These are the issues that break up marriages. And many Catholics start out in love, minimizing the impact of some neglected or difficult dogma, only to find it comes back later in the relationship and drives a wedge right through it.

 

[po18guy]

Ask her why the New Testament is called that. There is only one situation in all of the scriptures where the term “New Testament” is used. That is at the last supper when Christ consecrated the bread and wine. “This is the new testament in my blood” But, you must use bibles such as the King James Version or the Douay-Rheims, as many newer bibles have altered the wording of our Lord based on various modern agendas.

As others have pointed out, “remembrance” as used by Christ is far more than an act of recalling sometihng - it is a participation. Paul uses this exact word in describing the Eucharist in 1 Corthinathians 10:16. It is not the simplistic memorial which it has been made out to be in recent times, but an actual participation - just as we participate in the death and resurrection of Christ in the mass. It is not a re-creation, but an actual participation.

“New Testament” refers only and specifically to the Eucharist.

 

[emt_steve88]

It’s a standard based on the Real Presence. If my ritual is symbolic, anyone can participate; if my ritual is real, I want to make sure that the participants are those who honor that reality and keep it real.

I strongly urge you to study more about the differences and similarities whether you pursue her or not, but especially if you continue to date. These are the issues that break up marriages. And many Catholics start out in love, minimizing the impact of some neglected or difficult dogma, only to find it comes back later in the relationship and drives a wedge right through it.

Absolutely true. My wife was baptist, joined the Catholic Church, wanted to go back to baptist church because some parishioners said some things to her that upset her. I went with her, but feel called back to the Catholic Church. This has caused strife between us where there had not before. Please pray for us.

 

[Abu]

seekingwithhope #1
Eucharist: I’m well versed in explaining the bread of life discourse in John 6 so no problem there. Issue is with the numerous other times that Jesus and Paul say do this in remembrance. She see’s a conflict between remembrance and actual body and blood. Not sure how to explain that one. We are certainly remembering him, but it’s more.
She also brought up Matt 26:29 where he says “I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from not until…” This seems to indicate that Christ himself is calling it symbolic now. How do we reconcile this?

Receiving the eucharist: Why do Catholics deny Protestants but not vis-versa.

The reality is the clarity and directness of Christ – “This IS My Body” at the Last Supper after carefully teaching in Jn 6:51: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh," establishes the reality.

Jn 6:55: For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. And many walked no more with Him. (Jn 6:66). Did he say “you misunderstood Me”? No, He let them go – take note.

Then, to make absolutely certain there was no mistaking what He was saying, Jesus said to the Twelve, “What about you, do you want to go away too?” To which Simon Peter replied, “Lord, who shall we go to? You have the message of eternal life, and we believe” (John 6:59-68).

With Christ’s teaching on His Body to eat and His Blood to drink, He made sure that this was not misunderstood by:

1. Reemphasizing His teaching and refusing to change it even when many left Him
2. By questioning, ensuring that His Apostles, with Peter the Supreme Vicar of His Church, understood and assented to His teaching – so clear as to His meaning – that the doubters left Him.

We listen to the Sacred Scriptures: “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:15-18) “The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name, he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you.” (John 14:26) “But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (John 16:13-15)

There is no answer to Christ through St Paul in 1 Cor. 11:23-29:
“For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.”

As Fr Echert points out of the sickness and death attributed to the Corinthians’ denial by St Paul in verse 30:
“The sickness and death found among the Christians at Corinth who unworthily approached the Holy Eucharist was a sign to the Church that this was no mere symbol but a divine Reality of Christ in His Body and Blood, as taught by Jesus Himself.”