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Welshrabbit
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I’m a bit confused by this statement as well. What are police to do in an active shooter situation for example?
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FiveLinden
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I think I meant ‘should’. And the context I was talking about was custody. Active shooter situations should be managed through effective gun control, lockdowns, negotiation, waiting and use of non-lethal weapons. That combination would eliminate most deaths. I don’t think there is anything wrong with police defending themselves by killing another if necessary but such events should be very, very rare.
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RuthAnne
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I agree . . . which is why I always use both hands.
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esieffe
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What is bad about times like this, is that if things get really crazy, the pressure to join a side in order to be “effective” increases substantially. For example, I was going to sit out the presidential election or do a throw away vote. Now feel compelled to move out of the center where I belong and go yet again back to the side that doesn’t advocate tearing down monuments, that doesn’t put up with drag queens reading to kids at a library.
I can’t even believe I even had to write that. Somebody pinch me.
I don’t know who can fix this. No way I vote for the insane infanticidal, statue pulling, rioters, so I have no choice but to pin my hopes on a man who has actually done some real good on several fronts, but wants to remove the only health plan we have in place, and whose IQ can be found on a bank of elevator buttons, and who is totally botching up this pandemic response.
Right now, I’m not really seeing a light at the end of the tunnel… anywhere. All we have is God, and maybe that’s the point.
I can’t even believe I even had to write that. Somebody pinch me.
I don’t know who can fix this. No way I vote for the insane infanticidal, statue pulling, rioters, so I have no choice but to pin my hopes on a man who has actually done some real good on several fronts, but wants to remove the only health plan we have in place, and whose IQ can be found on a bank of elevator buttons, and who is totally botching up this pandemic response.
Right now, I’m not really seeing a light at the end of the tunnel… anywhere. All we have is God, and maybe that’s the point.
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Ridgerunner
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longer ago than that, at least in Catholic schools. Every race and virtually every ethnicity was celebrated in one way or another. The heroes of each were extolled. Slavery was utterly condemned and so was racism. Moderns might be surprised if they looked into some of the old Catholic school textbooks. But their “diversity” wasn’t complete. They didn’t praise other religions. They did NOT countenance communism and they didn’t even mention sexual perversion, let alone endorse it.
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Edmundus1581
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You are still spinning words from one headline which I’ve already shown to be deliberately deceptive, and from there you’ve simply picked my words to make some sort of case against me.Edmundus1581:
You should be ashamed of your country and its institutions and its history of ill-treatment of the peoples displaced by the colonial invasions. This shame should not stop you being proud of other things done by Australians, the Australian States or the Commonwealth they formed. But shame is the right emotion for anyone who feels themselves to be a part of Australia.FiveLinden:
And what should I, as an Australian, be ashamed of?
And on your other point: why did the various Australian police and prison services not protect the many people who died in their ‘care’ from suicide?
And your term ‘uniformed judiciary’ is all too revealing. The police are neither judge nor jury in law. But in Australia their actions too often result in death without trial or sentence.
You have not provided one piece of evidence beyond your original headline:
I, on the other hand, have now gone twice to more supporting evidence. In doing my research I’ve also learned some history and judicial matters I was not previously aware of. (Cue @FiveLinden for a gotcha on the the word “judicial”
)I’m not interested in word games with you. I’m not interested in an argument about the white settlement of Australia.
I’ve answered your headline, and responded to one round of follow ups words (not facts).
Indeed. It’s time for @FiveLinden to do some work to back his or her assumptions.FiveLinden:
You have made a false assumption that the prisons make no effort to prevent suicide; you might want to do a bit of research as to why they have suicide watches on prisoners they suspect of being suicidal.
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Theo520
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A little humor for the title
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otjm
Guest
That is squeezing the trigger slowly, not jerking it.
Oh, and waiting? How did that work out in Las Vegas? And Parkland, Florida?
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otjm
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Politico did a longer article on Camden, New Jersey and its change tot heir police force. In essence, they fired the entire police department and negotiated with the county to provide policing.
That did several things.
It ended the union and reduced police pay and benefits.
The good: it allowed a significant increase in the number of police. The bad: the have a sort of revolving door on a fair number of police who start there and then move on. While the union per se may now be a benefit in making policy changes, lower pay and benefits are going to skim off police who can do better elsewhere.
It allowed changing police tactics and policies, The good: they adopted “best practices”, at least in part from the Police Executive Research Forum, and a use-of-force guidebook developed with New York University’s Policing project, which has received the seal of approval from both the ACLU and the Fraternal Order of Police.
The bad: because they rely on the county to supply the force,recruitment, they are stuck with civil service rules and regulations requiring the county to open hiring lists to all of the state, including the northern mostly white areas. Camden is 50.3% Hispanic and 42.4% African American, and the force is a bit over half white.
To which I would add: liberals all over are charging (without providing a scintilla of evidence) that police forces all over as systemically racist. What Hispanic or African American wants to sign up to work, in dangerous situations and likely with a white officer or officers as backup, for a career? The people screaming the loudest are providing the exact reason to not enter the career which the screamers want changed.
I have no problem with better police tactics and training. I have no problem with busting unions, which have had way far too much power and have intervened when what should have happened when an officer, or officers should have been fired. However, there is a corollary: too often the reason we have had unions is because we have had stupid management. Management, including city and county (and to an extent, State) personnel who oversee the police department need to understand what police can and cannot do, and get out of the way and let them do it (e.g. Seattle keeping the police from disbanding the anarchists’ takeover - a purely political decision).
I fear, however, having actually listened to some of the proponents of change, that they have not the slightest clue as to reality. They also appear to thin Darwin’s Law has been repealed.
It is going to get interesting, to paraphrase an old Chinese curse.
That did several things.
It ended the union and reduced police pay and benefits.
The good: it allowed a significant increase in the number of police. The bad: the have a sort of revolving door on a fair number of police who start there and then move on. While the union per se may now be a benefit in making policy changes, lower pay and benefits are going to skim off police who can do better elsewhere.
It allowed changing police tactics and policies, The good: they adopted “best practices”, at least in part from the Police Executive Research Forum, and a use-of-force guidebook developed with New York University’s Policing project, which has received the seal of approval from both the ACLU and the Fraternal Order of Police.
The bad: because they rely on the county to supply the force,recruitment, they are stuck with civil service rules and regulations requiring the county to open hiring lists to all of the state, including the northern mostly white areas. Camden is 50.3% Hispanic and 42.4% African American, and the force is a bit over half white.
To which I would add: liberals all over are charging (without providing a scintilla of evidence) that police forces all over as systemically racist. What Hispanic or African American wants to sign up to work, in dangerous situations and likely with a white officer or officers as backup, for a career? The people screaming the loudest are providing the exact reason to not enter the career which the screamers want changed.
I have no problem with better police tactics and training. I have no problem with busting unions, which have had way far too much power and have intervened when what should have happened when an officer, or officers should have been fired. However, there is a corollary: too often the reason we have had unions is because we have had stupid management. Management, including city and county (and to an extent, State) personnel who oversee the police department need to understand what police can and cannot do, and get out of the way and let them do it (e.g. Seattle keeping the police from disbanding the anarchists’ takeover - a purely political decision).
I fear, however, having actually listened to some of the proponents of change, that they have not the slightest clue as to reality. They also appear to thin Darwin’s Law has been repealed.
It is going to get interesting, to paraphrase an old Chinese curse.
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