Marching in the Streets

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

The captain of the carrier told you that personally? If not, how do you know it?

I see. Unless one has personally obtained knowledge of a fact, one cannot have any assurance that it is a fact. You obviously don’t trust any media.

That’s the standard meaning, established by the Command and General Staff College.

The Director of the College told you that personally? If not, how do you know it?

And they are greatly aided by mindless protestors who are willing to bend the truth to make political points.

No need to editorialize. I gave you a reason guerillas avoid confronting a superior armed force on a battlefield, true in WWII, Vietnam and now Iraq.

And the enemy has people helping them in this country. Some of them will go so far as to make up stories about how a banner on a carrier which congratulated the crew on accomplishing their mission was really proclaiming the end of the war.

Then some of those collaborators were part of the Administration because they made no initial effort to deny the inference that it refered to the war and not to the carrier’s immediate mission.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

I see. Unless one has personally obtained knowledge of a fact, one cannot have any assurance that it is a fact. You obviously don’t trust any media…

Do you have any credible cite that says the banner was put there by order of anyone BUT the Captain?

Richardols:

The Director of the College told you that personally? If not, how do you know it?..

No doubt when you attended whatever college you graduated from, there were no books, and every class was taught personally by the director.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Richardols:

No need to editorialize. I gave you a reason guerillas avoid confronting a superior armed force on a battlefield, true in WWII, Vietnam and now Iraq…

What you gave was sophistry.

Richardols:

Then some of those collaborators were part of the Administration because they made no initial effort to deny the inference that it refered to the war and not to the carrier’s immediate mission.

So a lie becomes the truth if there is “no initial effort to deny” it?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

Do you have any credible cite that says the banner was put there by order of anyone BUT the Captain?

No doubt when you attended whatever college you graduated from, there were no books, and every class was taught personally by the director.

Contradicting yourself, aren’t you? You challenge my information because the ship’s commander didn’t give it to me personally, then you affirm that information can be obtained from other than a primary source.

BTW, “whatever” college was Fordham University in The Bronx, New York in 1959.

What you gave was sophistry.

No. I used the term “body count” a common term in the war I participated in. You then said that my simple use of that term meant that I “take comfort in the death of every American. The more the better.” Not of every American soldier, but of every American!

How could any rational person draw that conclusion? Where did you go to college? Didn’t you take a course in Logic?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Contradicting yourself, aren’t you? You challenge my information because the ship’s commander didn’t give it to me personally, then you affirm that information can be obtained from other than a primary source.

BTW, “whatever” college was Fordham University in The Bronx, New York in 1959.

Let me guess, you majored in Sophistry, with a minor in Non Sequitors?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Richardols:

No. I used the term “body count” a common term in the war I participated in.

What unit were you with?

Richardols:

You then said that my simple use of that term meant that I “take comfort in the death of every American. The more the better.” Not of every American soldier, but of every American!

You took a term from an old war, one that was applied to the enemy, and applied it to Americans. With obvious relish.

Richardols:

How could any rational person draw that conclusion? Where did you go to college? Didn’t you take a course in Logic?

I have two graduate degrees from Georgia State – which makes it easy for me to see through your sophistry.

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

What unit were you with?

Air Force Humint Collection. I spoke fluent Polish and Russian, excellent Thai, and good Vietnamese which I learned at the DLIEC in Washington. I went to the US Army Intelligence School at Ft Holabird, Md. In Vietnam, I was with Det 6, 6499th Special Activities Group, and interrogated prisoners, Hoi Chanhs and refugees. And my unit never tortured a single prisoner! In Thailand, I was with Det 5 of the same Group, and was an Agent Handler in our covert and clandestine intel collection operations.

You are a veteran? Persian Gulf, I presume?

You took a term from an old war, one that was applied to the enemy, and applied it to Americans.

Conservatives are true masters of the Big Lie. I use a term that I remember, and you presumed I use it to insult Americans. I didn’t.

I have two graduate degrees from Georgia State – which makes it easy for me to see through your sophistry.

Again the Big Lie technique. Presuming that I deliberately was attacking our soldiers, several of whom there are my nephews in Iraq. I, too, went beyond a BA, to an MBA and a JD.

I wonder about the way a wannabe politician tries to understand varying points of view. I can see why Berry wasn’t beaten.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Air Force Humint Collection. I spoke fluent Polish and Russian, excellent Thai, and good Vietnamese which I learned at the DLIEC in Washington. I went to the US Army Intelligence School at Ft Holabird, Md. In Vietnam, I was with Det 6, 6499th Special Operations Group, and interrogated prisoners, Hoi Chanhs and refugees. And my unit never tortured a single prisoner! In Thailand, I was with Det 5 of the same Group, and was an Agent Handler in our covert and clandestine intel collection operations.

You are a veteran? Persian Gulf, I presume?.

Viet Nam – my first tour I was an adviser to Viet Namese Infantry units. My second tour I was a company commander (A-1/61 IN).

Richardols:

Conservatives are true masters of the Big Lie. I use a term that I remember, and you presumed I use it to insult Americans. I didn’t.

Then I suggest you not use it again – it is disrespectful toward those who made the supreme sacrifice.

Richardols:

Again the Big Lie technique. Presuming that I deliberately was attacking our soldiers, several of whom there are my nephews in Iraq. I, too, went beyond a BA, to an MBA and a JD.

I wonder about the way a wannabe politician tries to understand varying points of view. I can see why Berry wasn’t beaten.

How many votes did YOU get?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

Viet Nam – my first tour I was an adviser to Viet Namese Infantry units. My second tour I was a company commander (A-1/61 IN).

Good. Too many jingoes on various Boards have never followed the flag.

Then I suggest you not use it again – it is disrespectful toward those who made the supreme sacrifice.

I would not presume to censor your vocabulary. Please don’t presume to censor mine.

How many votes did YOU get?

Ask that of people who ran for office. I wasn’t running for office.

 

[gilliam]

before the personal attacks get out of hand, move the topic back to the subject of the 1st post please

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

I would not presume to censor your vocabulary. Please don’t presume to censor mine…

You have the right to say what you like, of course. But when you speak disrespectfully of those who paid the highest sacrifice, others have a right to draw their own conclusions.

Richardols:

Ask that of people who ran for office. I wasn’t running for office.

Why not? Do we not have a duty to lead?

 

[Richardols]

gilliam:

Why are so many Westerners, living in mature democracies, ready to march against the toppling of a despot in Iraq but unwilling to take to the streets in support of the democratic movement in the Middle East?

Well, back to the topic, I’d say that we don’t have to take to the streets. Those of us in mature democracies can rely on our legislators and our Administrations to represent us.

We are not so lacking in representation that we must resort to direct democracy tactics like street demonstrations. IMO.

 

[vern_humphrey]

gilliam:

before the personal attacks get out of hand, move the topic back to the subject of the 1st post please

You asked a question.

Why are so many Westerners, living in mature democracies, ready to march against the toppling of a despot in Iraq but unwilling to take to the streets in support of the democratic movement in the Middle East?

The last few posts give you your answer.

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

You have the right to say what you like, of course. But when you speak disrespectfully of those who paid the highest sacrifice, others have a right to draw their own conclusions.

I did not speak disrespectfully, and I don’t care what conclusions you draw.

Why not? Do we not have a duty to lead?

Give me a break. You actually consider those wheeler-dealer pols in Washington as “leaders”?

Okay. You have a right to say what your like even if I’m snickering about your characterization of Congressmen.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Okay. You have a right to say what your like even if I’m snickering about your characterization of Congressmen.

If you don’t LIKE our leaders, why not run for office?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Well, back to the topic, I’d say that we don’t have to take to the streets. Those of us in mature democracies can rely on our legislators and our Administrations to represent us.

We are not so lacking in representation that we must resort to direct democracy tactics like street demonstrations. IMO.

Good – the last time we had people marching through the streets carrying enemy flags and shouting enemy slogans.

It was after our oldest daughter was in college that my wife finally told me what happened to her – people sought her out, as the pregnant wife of a soldier, to try to make her cry by saying they hoped her husband died in Viet Nam.

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

Good – the last time we had people marching through the streets carrying enemy flags and shouting enemy slogans.

Actually, a tribute to the strength of our 1st Amendment rights, as vulgar as such things were.

It was after our oldest daughter was in college that my wife finally told me what happened to her – people sought her out, as the pregnant wife of a soldier, to try to make her cry by saying they hoped her husband died in Viet Nam.

I encountered demonstrators, too, but as I travelled in and served in civilian clothes, I avoided the abuse the uniformed men got.

When my brother shipped out, I told him to take his cap off and say that he was a bus driver, if demonstrators remarked about his uniform.

I always wondered why there were no pro-war demonstrators, just the antiwar folks back then.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

Actually, a tribute to the strength of our 1st Amendment rights, as vulgar as such things were…

Also a comment on people’s willingness to sacrifice other people’s lives.

Don’t let them do to this generation of American soliders what was done to our generation.

Richardols:

I encountered demonstrators, too, but as I travelled in and served in civilian clothes, I avoided the abuse the uniformed men got.

When my brother shipped out, I told him to take his cap off and say that he was a bus driver, if demonstrators remarked about his uniform.

I always wondered why there were no pro-war demonstrators, just the antiwar folks back then.

There were – but not so violent, nor so well-publicized.

By the way, if you’re really interested, why not join with me in pressuring the Diocese to start up or enlarge Catholic schools?

Here’s why I ran for Congress:

1. Arkansas is dead last economically among all 50 states.
2. In the First District, out of 26 counties, we have only 4 that can match the state’s level of per capita income (22 are below average, and 19 of those are falling farther behind.)
3. Twelve of the 26 counties in the First District have infant mortality rates twice the national average.
4. Arkansas has a 22% adult illiteracy rate. In Phillips County, it’s 43%. In Lee County, it’s 45%.
5. The counties bordering the Mississippi River (all but two are in the First District) are hemmoraging people – they’ve lost 8% of their population in the last 3 years.

As Catholics, we can’t stand by and let this go on. The first thing the Church can do is extend Catholic schools – why don’t we have a second collection in every church, every month for Catholic schools?

Why didn’t the Bishop address Catholic schools in his goals for the Diocese?

 

[Richardols]

vern humphrey:

Also a comment on people’s willingness to sacrifice other people’s lives.

Don’t let them do to this generation of American soliders what was done to our generation.

I believe that what makes America truly great is the First Amendment. When I was in uniform, I’d rather have been covered with spittle than to restrict someone’s First Amendment rights (I guess that’s one reason I’m a liberal) and I’d not restrict anti-war protestors of today either. If America is superior at all, it is our unlimited freedom of speech that makes us so.

By the way, if you’re really interested, why not join with me in pressuring the Diocese to start up or enlarge Catholic schools?

I will write to the bishop making that point and suggesting the extra collection.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richardols:

I believe that what makes America truly great is the First Amendment. When I was in uniform, I’d rather have been covered with spittle than to restrict someone’s First Amendment rights (I guess that’s one reason I’m a liberal) and I’d not restrict anti-war protestors of today either. If America is superior at all, it is our unlimited freedom of speech that makes us so.

The First Amendment is a limitation on the Government, not on private citizens. The right to free speech doesn’t include forcing others to listen or to agree. In fact, others actually have a right to disagree!!

We have, for example, people on this forum who attack the Church with false statements – and after they’ve been corrected and still persist, we have a perfect right to rebuke them or ask them to leave.

When a person exercises his own rights in a way that hurts others – especially others who are in service to the country and in great danger – it is perfectly proper for others to point out what a hurtful act that is.

I

Richardols:

will write to the bishop making that point and suggesting the extra collection.

We need to do more than that – we need to have a program to actually make a difference in Arkansas. Remember what Juilan the Apostate said?