Marijuana

[Plato34]

I do drink beer and alcohol in addition to smoking marijuana, but marijuana is cheaper, more available to me, and sustains a culture entirely different that alcohol. There is a culture associated with weed which inspires atmosphere and directs bonding between my friends and I.

 

[BobCatholic]

I do drink beer and alcohol in addition to smoking marijuana, but marijuana is cheaper, more available to me, and sustains a culture entirely different that alcohol. There is a culture associated with weed which inspires atmosphere and directs bonding between my friends and I.

Really? And why is the MJ culture incompatible with the beer/wine culture?

And it is cheaper? I can have a bottle of wine for as little as $3 where I live. I doubt MJ is that cheap.

 

[Plato34]

If your under the age of twenty-one the cost of obtaining alcohol is increased dramatically; you have to find someone to buy it for you and you usually have to pay them something, too.

As far as culture, it weed brings up an entirely different atmosphere when you smoke it than alcohol. It has different smells, associations, memories, conversations, and symbols associated with it. It’s not incompatible, only different. There are different times and situations for different substances.

 

[puzzleannie]

well I am a product of the wigged out 60s generation of pot worshippers and I have seen plenty of evidence, then and now, of its bad effects. But even if it were as benign as cigarettes and alcohol, two other recreational drugs, that does not argue for it being legal. As it stands now, anyone who uses this or any other illegal drug is contributing to an ongoing system of criminal violence on a huge multi-national scale, and supporting not only drug-running, but porn, the sex trade and all the corruption that goes with this culture. That alone is reason enough to avoid its use, even if it had beneficial effects.

Unless the government could show that a grow it, sell it, tax it policy would work (and they don’t have a very good success record with most other government programs) legalization should not even be considered. there is absolutely no argument and no evidence that its legality would contribute to the public welfare.

 

[BobCatholic]

If your under the age of twenty-one the cost of obtaining alcohol is increased dramatically; you have to find someone to buy it for you and you usually have to pay them something, too.

Then people should wait until they’re 21. Easy.

Your argument falls apart once someone is 21.

Patience is a virtue, and it saves money! CHA CHING!

It has different smells, associations, memories, conversations, and symbols associated with it. It’s not incompatible, only different. There are different times and situations for different substances.

So why not drink beer or wine as a substitute?

This is why I want to know why MJ and not beer/wine?

Is it only because you’re too young for beer/wine?

And are you saying one cannot enjoy the company of others without MJ?

 

[BiologyBrain]

I do drink beer and alcohol in addition to smoking marijuana, but marijuana is cheaper, more available to me, and sustains a culture entirely different that alcohol. There is a culture associated with weed which inspires atmosphere and directs bonding between my friends and I.

The difference between what you describe & what the average person experiences w/ alcohol (friendly drinking) is that alcohol does not produce hallucinations at moderate levels. MJ on the other hand is a hallucigen (I can’t spell - sorry). It opens different pathways in the brain leading to dissassociative experiences (out of body/mind type things) even at low levels. Alcohol on the other hand simply eases inhibitions, but does not produce hallucinations (unless used excessively).

Medical MJ can be used w/o the hallucinations primarily b/c the pain receptors take up the MJ prior to the hallucigen receptors (not a medical term, again I can’t spell). The same is true of opiates. When someone is truly in pain, they do not get addicted psychologically to a drug, they physically need the relief. They don’t get the same ‘high’ from whatever drug is present. The high is only acheived when the patient is truly in pain when levels of drug surpass the level of receptors activated by the pain. Then the other receptors that cause hallucination & the ‘high’ are activated.

 

[Plato34]

I do enjoy myself without alcohol or marijuana sometimes, but that doesn’t mean I have to all the time. Different cultures have different drugs, experiences, and customs that they enjoy. Why should I not discover all of these experiences? Besides legality, why alcohol and not marijuana? Why don’t you smoke marijuana instead of drink? I understand the legal aspects of it, but it sounds like you wouldn’t smoke weed even if it was legal. Why? Weed has caused almost no deaths or serious injuries, it only wastes time, which, when your young, you have plenty of. So why not smoke weed? Surely you can spare time for an experience.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I do enjoy myself without alcohol or marijuana sometimes, but that doesn’t mean I have to all the time. Different cultures have different drugs, experiences, and customs that they enjoy. Why should I not discover all of these experiences? Besides legality, why alcohol and not marijuana? Why don’t you smoke marijuana instead of drink? I understand the legal aspects of it, but it sounds like you wouldn’t smoke weed even if it was legal. Why? Weed has caused almost no deaths or serious injuries, it only wastes time, which, when your young, you have plenty of. So why not smoke weed? Surely you can spare time for an experience.

I have asthma, so smoking anything isn’t recommended for me. I also don’t like to feel out of my head (either w/ drink or prescription drugs, etc). I don’t crave the ‘high’ experience that others seem to crave. Alcohol is also much easier to regulate - how much I drink is completely under my control. However, the way MJ works is that different varieties have different levels of THC and other canabinoids. Therefore, one toke may have as much THC/mind altering substances in it as 2 joints of another variety. Its very difficult to know w/o analyzing the MJ prior to use & that would just waste both time & money (MJ).

MJ does cause deaths, but not as obviously as alcohol (or stupidity). Often MJ is used in conjunction w/ one or more other substances (or stupidity). That leads to more injuries & death. Impaired driving (impaired w/ any substance, etc) is dangerous.

 

[Plato34]

I have asthma, so smoking anything isn’t recommended for me. I also don’t like to feel out of my head (either w/ drink or prescription drugs, etc). I don’t crave the ‘high’ experience that others seem to crave. Alcohol is also much easier to regulate - how much I drink is completely under my control. However, the way MJ works is that different varieties have different levels of THC and other canabinoids. Therefore, one toke may have as much THC/mind altering substances in it as 2 joints of another variety. Its very difficult to know w/o analyzing the MJ prior to use & that would just waste both time & money (MJ).

MJ does cause deaths, but not as obviously as alcohol (or stupidity). Often MJ is used in conjunction w/ one or more other substances (or stupidity). That leads to more injuries & death. Impaired driving (impaired w/ any substance, etc) is dangerous.

That’s is using multiple drugs together which is always stupid (although i’m sure there are plenty of people out there that do that). It is the same with any drug or substance though, you would not want to use alcohol with other depressants for because it would be easier to stop your heart. That is a completely separate thing.

As far as not knowing how much THC you are taking in with a particular variety of marijuana there is really nothing to say about that except you can’t die from overdose on just weed, and if weed from one dealer contains too much THC then you just find a place to chill until the high goes away and next time don’t buy from that dealer.

That being said I would never buy from anyone I didn’t know on a personal level. Or I would at least have someone I knew on a personal level know the person I was buying from and I would want him to support the dealer.

Really you just can’t be stupid with it, but that goes for everything in life. You can’t say I shouldn’t smoke just because I have to be a little bit cautious with it.

 

[BobCatholic]

Why should I not discover all of these experiences?

Because not all experiences are prudent or morally correct. And certain experiences make one’s mind and conscience impaired to the point that I can’t trust them.

If someone is drunk out of their skull, and they ask me for the car keys, I’m going to say no. I don’t trust their judgment because their mind and conscience has been impaired and they’re then making decisions based on this impairment.

If someone is addicted to [insert any drug here] and they tell me “I can stop anytime” I’ll say they’re lying. Their mind and conscience has been impaired so lying is no problem for them.

Someone once said “There are three ways to learn in life. 1) books 2) learning from others and 3) putting your tongue on a frozen lamp post.”

I don’t have to experience 3) to know it is not worth doing

 

[BiologyBrain]

That’s is using multiple drugs together which is always stupid (although i’m sure there are plenty of people out there that do that). It is the same with any drug or substance though, you would not want to use alcohol with other depressants for because it would be easier to stop your heart. That is a completely separate thing.

We agree completely on that!

As far as not knowing how much THC you are taking in with a particular variety of marijuana there is really nothing to say about that except you can’t die from overdose on just weed, and if weed from one dealer contains too much THC then you just find a place to chill until the high goes away and next time don’t buy from that dealer.

That being said I would never buy from anyone I didn’t know on a personal level. Or I would at least have someone I knew on a personal level know the person I was buying from and I would want him to support the dealer.

Even the same dealer/grower can have large variations in THC from batch to batch, year to year, etc. Its highly variable & depends on when the MJ is harvested, treated, conditioned, etc. That’s a big reason why I don’t think it should be legalized. Its just way too hard to know w/o testing each batch how much THC is present. Alcohol is very specific - only a certain amount can be produced before the yeasts/bacteria die from the concentration. Anything above that level must be chemically processed.

Really you just can’t be stupid with it, but that goes for everything in life. You can’t say I shouldn’t smoke just because I have to be a little bit cautious with it.

MJ (and alcohol) make previously ‘smart’ people act stupidly. That’s why drunks often get behind the wheel. That’s why tokers sometimes do the same. No you may not die of an overdose, but you could very easily kill someone else.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Not saying that I’m for the legalization of MJ, but as I understand it alcohol contributes to far more accidents than MJ. Taking my pick, I’d rather be on the road with a stoned driver than buzzed one. It’s tough to compare MJ to alcohol if you’re looking at abuse, rapes, deaths, poisonings, murder, disease, ect we all know who wins in those categories.

As far as a gateway drug, alcohol does also lead to the exploring of other drugs. I’d like to see some studies that have been done comparing alcohol to pot when it comes to gateway.I must say though, that one of the major things with pot is the fact that most people become very lazy on it. This is worse when it comes to the younger crowd who can easily lose sight of their goals and dreams in life. Again I’m pretty much neutral on the whole thing. If it does become legal I personally think the legal age of possesion/consumption should be “high”, no pun intended.

 

[Plato34]

Because not all experiences are prudent or morally correct. And certain experiences make one’s mind and conscience impaired to the point that I can’t trust them.

If someone is drunk out of their skull, and they ask me for the car keys, I’m going to say no. I don’t trust their judgment because their mind and conscience has been impaired and they’re then making decisions based on this impairment.

If someone is addicted to [insert any drug here] and they tell me “I can stop anytime” I’ll say they’re lying. Their mind and conscience has been impaired so lying is no problem for them.

Someone once said “There are three ways to learn in life. 1) books 2) learning from others and 3) putting your tongue on a frozen lamp post.”

I don’t have to experience 3) to know it is not worth doing

See that is the thing I do not understand is the ability of someone to determine moral correctness. Period. It seems to me that each person picks a set of ideas they think are wrong and that is their moral code. Some people might think that that drunk guy’s right to control his own fate overpowers your duty to keep his keys from him. Either that or they think its not that big of a deal if he dies in a wreck. I know that sounds messed up, but by what standards do you determine death is morally wrong when thousands of people think war is ok. The army encourages young men to take their keys when they are drunk on youth and lack experience and go die for their country. They use media, manipulation, propaganda to encourage death. Because that is noble? How is that any different than letting your friend go out and drive drunk.

I know this is a completely different topic and I’ve tried to post this question a couple of days ago but they haven’t responded back yet. You don’t have to respond back but that is my take.

Sometimes the only way to show men that war is bad is to let them experience it themselves. I would like to experience pain, sorrow, suffering, regret, passion, anger, happiness, and all the other emotions. They are all just chemical reaction in your brain,why not marvel at the wonders of all types of science.

 

[denwiles]

Views on Marijuana and or the legalization of the drug… Give opinions please! Personally I see nothing wrong with it.

Take it from someone who use to do it everyday for 10 years. Thats got to be whats wrong with me. LOL.
It falls under the same as no drunkard will inherit the Kinkdom of God. People will tell you it’s ok and it don’t hurt anyone. Thats a lie!!! We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and are to take care of our bodies the best we can. So on a health note it destroys the lungs and brain cells. I know human nature, as all us humans do. If they legalize Marijuana it will become the norm after a while and drug users will go to another drug. I got bord of it by itself and used it with other drugs. Despite what some would say it is a sin.

1. It is intoxicating- you get high
2. It destroys the body
3. it can lead to more harmful drugs
   Why use it???The God void we all have can not be filled with drugs. Get your dose from the Holy Ghost. LOL. just a little rime to make you laugh.
   Listen those who really Love you will tell you the truth. Jesus said in the Last days false Prophets will arise and lead many astray. I want to lead you to the Truth. God Bless you my friend in Jesus.

 

[BiologyBrain]

Not saying that I’m for the legalization of MJ, but as I understand it alcohol contributes to far more accidents than MJ. Taking my pick, I’d rather be on the road with a stoned driver than buzzed one. It’s tough to compare MJ to alcohol if you’re looking at abuse, rapes, deaths, poisonings, murder, disease, ect we all know who wins in those categories.

Is the rate of alcohol related incidents higher than that for MJ or is it just that more people use (abuse) alcohol than MJ? I get cases quite frequently where MJ is the primary means of intoxication. Many road-stops are also MJ related. If the MJ didn’t impair driving, how would the cops know to pull someone over?

As far as a gateway drug, alcohol does also lead to the exploring of other drugs. I’d like to see some studies that have been done comparing alcohol to pot when it comes to gateway.I must say though, that one of the major things with pot is the fact that most people become very lazy on it. This is worse when it comes to the younger crowd who can easily lose sight of their goals and dreams in life. Again I’m pretty much neutral on the whole thing. If it does become legal I personally think the legal age of possesion/consumption should be “high”, no pun intended.

I can kind of see where you’re going w/ that, but right now culturally, drinking alcohol is not illegal. Therefore, when you drink alcohol you aren’t necessarily exposed to people doing illegal drugs - I never have been. Culturally (here in the US) MJ is (mostly) illegal. Therefore, in order to use MJ, you have to go somewhere to get it illegally. That exposes you to more illegally minded people. Therefore, by that reasoning, MJ would be more of a gateway drug than alcohol.

I don’t know that there have been any studies of such, but there may have been. It’d be interesting to see anyway.

 

[BiologyBrain]

See that is the thing I do not understand is the ability of someone to determine moral correctness. Period. It seems to me that each person picks a set of ideas they think are wrong and that is their moral code. Some people might think that that drunk guy’s right to control his own fate overpowers your duty to keep his keys from him. Either that or they think its not that big of a deal if he dies in a wreck. I know that sounds messed up, but by what standards do you determine death is morally wrong when thousands of people think war is ok. The army encourages young men to take their keys when they are drunk on youth and lack experience and go die for their country. They use media, manipulation, propaganda to encourage death. Because that is noble? How is that any different than letting your friend go out and drive drunk.

I know this is a completely different topic and I’ve tried to post this question a couple of days ago but they haven’t responded back yet. You don’t have to respond back but that is my take.

Sometimes the only way to show men that war is bad is to let them experience it themselves. I would like to experience pain, sorrow, suffering, regret, passion, anger, happiness, and all the other emotions. They are all just chemical reaction in your brain,why not marvel at the wonders of all types of science.

War & drugs are totally different from one another. Taking someone’s keys from them while they are drunk is acting in mind of public safety. Its protecting the innocent from that person’s impaired judgement. Also, most of the time, the drunk is the one that survives the fatal crash… So they’re not just killing themselves.

I don’t think the only way to show that war is bad is to let people experience it. I don’t have to experience rape or murder to know its wrong/bad. It goes against the natural law to commit such acts. War is one of those acts that the government takes on itself to protect its people. While I don’t like war per say, I’m not anti-war if I think its for just reasons. Sometimes the only way to protect yourself is to put up your dukes & fight.

 

[Plato34]

Um collateral damage is killing innocent people.

From a moral standpoint how do you know you are really in the right and not the other person. Maybe America needs to be taken back a couple of notches. If so wouldn’t it be morally wrong to defend ourselves. It would be even more morally wrong if we invaded them. Of course, regardless of morality we are going to defend ourselves so that’s not really a legitimate point, survival instinct kicks in and morals go out.

I don’t necessarily hate war or think it’s completely evil, but I don’t like it when people think that it is the only way. From my experience there are always alternatives.

My argument is a little bit off topic but I think it is a decent analogy as long as you remove variables like pride, survival, ect. and look at it from a strict moral standpoint.

Also try thinking of public safety on a global level. The US is probably the most damaging nation in the world as far as that is concerned. I’m sure our soldiers have killed many, many innocent people and ruined the cultures and lives of countless individuals.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Is the rate of alcohol related incidents higher than that for MJ or is it just that more people use (abuse) alcohol than MJ? I get cases quite frequently where MJ is the primary means of intoxication. Many road-stops are also MJ related. If the MJ didn’t impair driving, how would the cops know to pull someone over?

I can kind of see where you’re going w/ that, but right now culturally, drinking alcohol is not illegal. Therefore, when you drink alcohol you aren’t necessarily exposed to people doing illegal drugs - I never have been. Culturally (here in the US) MJ is (mostly) illegal. Therefore, in order to use MJ, you have to go somewhere to get it illegally. That exposes you to more illegally minded people. Therefore, by that reasoning, MJ would be more of a gateway drug than alcohol.

I don’t know that there have been any studies of such, but there may have been. It’d be interesting to see anyway.

I think it’s that more folks abuse alcohol more than pot. It’s cheaper for most folks to get really drunk than it is to become stoned. Seems to me that it depends a lot on the circumstance and the type of folks that are using MJ. In the younger crowd alcohol is often used in union with MJ with parties. There alcohol is being the gateway to pot. I know of older folks that use to it relieves some stress from work; that is a more responsible use for it. Of course that can lead to abuse, but so does alcohol.

Also is it just me, or does this feel like the thread is starting to turn into an 'unjustified Iraq war, anti-U.S, anti war thread?

 

[BiologyBrain]

I think it’s that more folks abuse alcohol more than pot. It’s cheaper for most folks to get really drunk than it is to become stoned. Seems to me that it depends a lot on the circumstance and the type of folks that are using MJ. In the younger crowd alcohol is often used in union with MJ with parties. There alcohol is being the gateway to pot. I know of older folks that use to it relieves some stress from work; that is a more responsible use for it. Of course that can lead to abuse, but so does alcohol.

That’s kind of what I think as well. More people use/abuse alcohol than MJ - therefore the number of incidents involving alcohol is higher than those for MJ. I’m not 100% in agreement w/ your alcohol is the gateway to MJ, except that for young people (under 21) they’re already indulging in lawless behavior, so what’s one more infraction. However, I’ve been drinking and/or exposed to alcohol for most of my life & never once have I been around anyone using MJ as well. Granted I wasn’t a party animal in school (high school or college), but I’ve experienced some parties w/ underage drinking, but no MJ (cigarettes - most definitely).

Also is it just me, or does this feel like the thread is starting to turn into an 'unjustified Iraq war, anti-U.S, anti war thread?

I’m kind of afraid of that as well… Bah humbug - I hate that!

 

[stringbeanduck]

That’s kind of what I think as well. More people use/abuse alcohol than MJ - therefore the number of incidents involving alcohol is higher than those for MJ. I’m not 100% in agreement w/ your alcohol is the gateway to MJ, except that for young people (under 21) they’re already indulging in lawless behavior, so what’s one more infraction. However, I’ve been drinking and/or exposed to alcohol for most of my life & never once have I been around anyone using MJ as well. Granted I wasn’t a party animal in school (high school or college), but I’ve experienced some parties w/ underage drinking, but no MJ (cigarettes - most definitely).

I’m kind of afraid of that as well… Bah humbug - I hate that!

Usually if you have alcohal involved in party, what’s a little MJ added to it? At least it seems that way in my generation.