Marijuana

[Mirdath]

My brother told me that marijuana doesn’t kill people and alcohol does? Are there specific links that testify to this?

Erowid.org’s Cannabis FAQ: Don’t people die from smoking pot?

Erowid is an encyclopedia of natural and pharmaceutical drugs, both legal and illegal. You can find an amazing amount of information there, and a lot of it is thoroughly sourced.

 

[IanBoyd57]

It depends on the grounds in which either one was made illegal.
If I had to guess I would bet pot is illegal is because it encourages further worse types of drugs usage (ie its a “gateway drug”) and even encourages alcoholism itself.
I know there is a safe and responsible manner in which alcohol can be used, but is there such a thing as a “safe level” of getting high?

Also it should be noted at one time in American history alcohol sale was constitutionally banned…only to be constitutionally repealed down the road…SO…given something like that you could almost conclude there either isnt any logic to what is or isnt outlawed or that its more about popular/public opinion.

While I dont agree pot has killed 0 people its very clear alcohol and tobacco kill an outrageous amount of people.
At the very least such legislation is ironic at the most its pure insanity.

Um, no. Marijuana is often used to help recovering alcoholics with some success.

And do you actually have any idea what you are talking about?

You’re asking if there are any ‘safe’ levels of getting high?

ALL levels of highness are safe because marijuana is non-toxic. To do harm to yourself you would have to smoke about 800 joints or so in under 15 minutes. Of course, there can be harm done if you drive or whatever, but that is your fault and should obviously be illegal.

It’s funny that they never say alcohol and tobacco are gateway drugs even though people start with them in almost every case.

But you’re right, the legislation is quite silly.

 

[IanBoyd57]

As for government not regulating mind altering substances, that is a fine position to advocate. I assume you also would wish to dispense with the FDA and the various laws about food, drug, and cosmetic safety. After all, if it is not the place of government to protect you from your own use of mind altering substance, then the government shouldn’t have to protect you from using rat poison as cough syrup.

The FDA exists to make sure people know what they are being sold. As in, they can research and find out what’s going into their body and so on. So I’m not sure what your point was there, I mean, alcohol is legal, you just have to be honest about what is in there. Also, btw, with people buying it on the street, you don’t know what is in there, and it’s not regulated. The government would make things safer if they themselves could regulate it.

 

[IanBoyd57]

Jesus and the Apostles drank wine. If it was good for them then its good for us.

Excessive drinking of course is a different matter.

And he also used marijuana or he was not the christ. No, I’m serious. One of the oils he was anointed with and stuff had cannabis as an ingredient in the form of hash oil. I can’t be bothered to look it up now though, perhaps someone knows what I’m talking about.

 

[IanBoyd57]

My brother told me that marijuana doesn’t kill people and alcohol does? Are there specific links that testify to this?

Um…you could just check wikipedia…or google it… pretty easy to find out IMHO.

But he’s correct, alcohol kills brain cells and can also kill people whereas marijuana is not harmful and non-toxic and has never killed anyone in all of human history.

 

[thistle]

And he also used marijuana or he was not the christ. No, I’m serious. One of the oils he was anointed with and stuff had cannabis as an ingredient in the form of hash oil. I can’t be bothered to look it up now though, perhaps someone knows what I’m talking about.

If you can’t be bothered to give us the source of your comment what’s the point in saying anything. Its not up to us to have to hunt for it!!

 

[IanBoyd57]

If you can’t be bothered to give us the source of your comment what’s the point in saying anything. Its not up to us to have to hunt for it!!

Key word being ‘now.’

 

[runandsew]

As for marijuana not killing anyone, I would say that if anyone has ever driven stoned, then they know that it can be very dangerous, and that person could end up killing themselves or others. Therefore, it would be wrong to drive that way.
Back in the Navy, being an Interior Communications Electrician, I use to have to follow up on my shipmates who worked on equipment while stoned, and redo their work, since is was so sloppy when they worked stoned, When they were straight the work was good. Therefore it would be wrong to work while stoned if it affects others.

 

[Julianna]

Someone told me that because marijuana is outlawed therefore alcohol should be outlawed. I don’t think this reasoning makes any sense. What do you think?

No it doesn’t make sense. However, with aging babyboomer population heading into retirement (the Woodstock generation)…most who will join the AARP, I believe there will be a change in the current marijuana laws.

Stay tuned.

 

[corvidae]

And he also used marijuana or he was not the christ. No, I’m serious. One of the oils he was anointed with and stuff had cannabis as an ingredient in the form of hash oil. I can’t be bothered to look it up now though, perhaps someone knows what I’m talking about.

First of all, being annointed with the stuff is not the same as ingesting it. People wear hemp (of which marijuana is a subspecies) all the time, that does not mean they are using marijuana. Also, you will have a hard time finding where Christ was annointed with the Holy oils of Judaism (even if they did contain cannabis) because He was opposed by the Chief Priest.

So, good luck with that.

A lone Raven

 

[IanBoyd57]

First of all, being annointed with the stuff is not the same as ingesting it. People wear hemp (of which marijuana is a subspecies) all the time, that does not mean they are using marijuana. Also, you will have a hard time finding where Christ was annointed with the Holy oils of Judaism (even if they did contain cannabis) because He was opposed by the Chief Priest.

So, good luck with that.

A lone Raven

Alright this only took about 5 seconds to find but I’ve been busy. Anyway…

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm

(This is the article)

Jesus Christ and his apostles may have used a cannabis-based anointing oil to help cure people with crippling diseases, it has been claimed.

Researchers in the United States say the oil used in the early days of the Christian church contained a cannabis extract called kaneh-bosem.

They suggest the extract, which is absorbed into the body when placed on the skin, could have helped cure people with a variety of physical and mental problems.

The medical use of cannabis during that time is supported by archaeological records

Chris Bennet
The author of the article, published in the US drugs magazine High Times, says his findings are based on a study of scriptural texts.

Wide use

The article does not question the validity of the miracles reported in the Bible but rather examines whether the early Christian Church may have made use of substances with an active medical effect.

It does not rule out the role played by blind faith in Christ.

Chris Bennett said cannabis was widely used at the time to heal the sick.

“The medical use of cannabis during that time is supported by archaeological records.”

He said the ancient anointing oil contained high levels of cannabis extract.

"The holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus, contained over six pounds of keneh-bosum - a substance identified by respected etymology, linguists anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis extracted into about six quarts of olive oil along with a variety of other fragrant herbs.

“The ancient annointed ones were literally drenched in this potent mixture.”

Miracles

Mr Bennett suggested the drug may have played a role in some healing miracles carried out by Jesus and his disciples.

He wrote: "In the ancient world, diseases such as epilepsy were attributed to demonic possession.

"To cure somebody of such an illness, even with the aid of certain herbs was considered exorcism or miraculous healing.

“Interestingly, cannabis has been shown to be effective in the treatment of not only epilepsy but many of the other ailments that Jesus and the disciples healed people of such as skin diseases, eye problems and menstrual problems.”

Mr Bennett said the findings suggested that it was unchristian to persecute people who used cannabis.

“If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient Christian anointing oil, as history indicates, and receiving this oil is what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ.”

However, Christian groups in the United States have rejected Mr Bennett’s claims.

They have insisted that the arguments made in the article are lame.

In a response to the article published on JesusJournal.com, critics said: “As many of us know firsthand, Jesus often becomes the final hope for the pharmacologically impaired.”

John Cunyus, the author of a book on Christian healing, said: “Well, the Bible does say that St. Stephen was stoned… but perhaps not in that sense!”

 

[corvidae]

Ok, read the Article,

The Oil Used by the Early Christian Church and The Oil Used by the Priest of Judaism. That is what they are basing this on. There is not proof that Jesus used it, nor suggestion why He would, except to explain away the miracles. Nowhere in the Bbile does it say he annointed the sick with Oils, least of all the Holy Oils of Judaism, The closest you will get is making mud with His saliva. James tells people to anoint the sick with Holy Oils. I do wonder however if there were specific oils for healing, or if perhaps the researchers stumbled across medicinal oils and believed them to be Holy Oils.

I am glad you found the article however, it is interesting, For Example, I did not know you could absorb Cannabis through the skin. However, it does point to a solely medicinal use of the plant Cannabis.

I would not argue against the medical use of any plant, if that plant is safe, and the person under a trained physicians care. I think the reason so many opposes medical use of Marijuana is because they believe some doctors will simply prescribe it to make money, and no one will be able to stop them.

Again, thank you for the article, but again, your statement. “He used Marijuana or He was not the Christ” does not stand up. Some articles suggest things that can never be proven, and they should not be taken as proof. In addition, I do not understand where you got the idea that He (Jesus) had to use Marijuana or he would not have been Jesus Christ.

A lone Raven

 

[thistle]

Alright this only took about 5 seconds to find but I’ve been busy. Anyway…

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm

(This is the article)

Jesus Christ and his apostles may have used a cannabis-based anointing oil to help cure people with crippling diseases, it has been claimed.

Pure speculation and nonsense! Absolutely unfounded and nothing you have provided even proves circumstancially such a thing happened with regard to Jesus.

 

[Abira]

erm… just a few points…

firstly: i use quite a few products with ‘hash seeds’ in, and I’ve also used the seeds in cooking… these are in no way ‘drugs’ and do not effect the body as they are in seed form…and are very good for your skin. You can buy the seeds legally in most health food shops and they are in the same league as pumpkin seeds etc etc…

so whether or not the seed oils were present as an ingredient is not important as their effect would not have been the same as smoking the actual leaves of the cannabis plant.

I think with a lot of things, they are here in our environment… either natural plants and such, or else people and attitudes… and I think that you have to exercise your own free will and choose the right way.

does the church have a moral position on it? I’ve not seen that anywhere in the thread…but I may have missed it

 

[Abira]

lol just to clarify…my products include moisturiser and soaps… I’ve seen any number of these products and I have also seen oils and face masks as well…

thebodyshop.co.uk/bin/venda?ex=co_wizr-xapian&bsref=thebodyshopuk&searchfld=&searchpage=0&searchinvt=1&searchstry=0&searchicat=0&searchlike=1&itemsperpage=9&threshold=50&carryfields=U%2CC%2Csortname%2Csortprice&searchex=hemp&itemsperpage=9

long link lol

and the following for the natural oil

regenerativenutrition.com/shop/product.asp?P_ID=428

 

[IanBoyd57]

Ok, read the Article,

The Oil Used by the Early Christian Church and The Oil Used by the Priest of Judaism. That is what they are basing this on. There is not proof that Jesus used it, nor suggestion why He would, except to explain away the miracles. Nowhere in the Bbile does it say he annointed the sick with Oils, least of all the Holy Oils of Judaism, The closest you will get is making mud with His saliva. James tells people to anoint the sick with Holy Oils. I do wonder however if there were specific oils for healing, or if perhaps the researchers stumbled across medicinal oils and believed them to be Holy Oils.

I am glad you found the article however, it is interesting, For Example, I did not know you could absorb Cannabis through the skin. However, it does point to a solely medicinal use of the plant Cannabis.

I would not argue against the medical use of any plant, if that plant is safe, and the person under a trained physicians care. I think the reason so many opposes medical use of Marijuana is because they believe some doctors will simply prescribe it to make money, and no one will be able to stop them.

Again, thank you for the article, but again, your statement. “He used Marijuana or He was not the Christ” does not stand up. Some articles suggest things that can never be proven, and they should not be taken as proof. In addition, I do not understand where you got the idea that He (Jesus) had to use Marijuana or he would not have been Jesus Christ.

A lone Raven

I got that by, because of who he was, the oil he would have had to be anointed with, contained hash oil. It was one of the ingredients as far as research suggests. They anointed people with oil back then, and especially in his case, and one of the oils that they would have used, has been found to contain the cannabis extract. I’m not saying Jesus was a stoner or anything like that, but that there is a lot of history which is contrary to the stigma it has today.

It’s not that he “had” to use it, exactly, it’s just that part of the, um, rituals/ceremonies he went through involved anointing with that oil. Records and such do show that cannabis extract was in the oil, and the christ would have definitely been anointed with those oils as part of his life and who he was.

 

[IanBoyd57]

erm… just a few points…

firstly: i use quite a few products with ‘hash seeds’ in, and I’ve also used the seeds in cooking… these are in no way ‘drugs’ and do not effect the body as they are in seed form…and are very good for your skin. You can buy the seeds legally in most health food shops and they are in the same league as pumpkin seeds etc etc…

so whether or not the seed oils were present as an ingredient is not important as their effect would not have been the same as smoking the actual leaves of the cannabis plant.

I think with a lot of things, they are here in our environment… either natural plants and such, or else people and attitudes… and I think that you have to exercise your own free will and choose the right way.

does the church have a moral position on it? I’ve not seen that anywhere in the thread…but I may have missed it

They were not hash seeds used, it was from the flowering tops (buds) and it was extracted into the oil, and the article itself says that it was a potent oil, much different then any products with hemp seeds in it.

Please, actually read the article itself, I uh, can’t even say that was selective reading because no where in the article does it mention or suggest the use of seeds, so I don’t even know where you got that.

From the article:

"The holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus, contained over six pounds of keneh-bosum - a substance identified by respected etymology, linguists anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis extracted into about six quarts of olive oil along with a variety of other fragrant herbs.

“The ancient annointed ones were literally drenched in this potent mixture.”

So it’s extracted cannabis, and then the article says that it is potent. And you came up with non-active non-potent seeds. Another point for literacy.

Look, the point was that christ was an anointed one, and would be anointed with all these oils as part of his life, and who he was as the christ. The oils contained cannabis. The rest is speculation and educated guesses, but it’s just to say that there’s no reason he couldn’t or wouldn’t have used what oils were available at the time. The bible does not explicitly state what Jesus ate at every meal, but using records and research we can figure out what was available and what he probably ate. The same can be done with other environmental factors and traditions.

This doesn’t explain away and miracles and that was not the point. Western culture has a very new, quite strange view of cannabis though, that is not based on any evidence. Cannabis isn’t even remotely dangerous. You can’t hurt yourself with it. Especially compared to alcohol, there is no debate.

In ancient times, there was nothing perverted or evil about cannabis use. For these reasons, Jesus was almost certainly at least anointed with it, and whether or not he used it on other people or other times doesn’t really matter either way. It’s medical uses at the time were quite common. Jesus’ use beyond his own initial anointing are in fact speculation, but they are not stupid or bogus speculation, as there are reasons to believe he may have used it, and that was the point.

 

[IanBoyd57]

Pure speculation and nonsense! Absolutely unfounded and nothing you have provided even proves circumstancially such a thing happened with regard to Jesus.

Erm…there’s more evidence that the oils Jesus was anointed with contained cannabis then for Jesus repeatedly breaking the laws of the universe and performing miracles.

I’m not saying those things didn’t happen, but that there is ample evidence that this did. Your double standard is sort of amusing.

As the article says,

The medical use of cannabis during that time is supported by archaeological records.

Researchers in the United States say the oil used in the early days of the Christian church contained a cannabis extract called kaneh-bosem.

The article does not question the validity of the miracles reported in the Bible but rather examines whether the early Christian Church may have made use of substances with an active medical effect.

So there is evidence beyond a single book that cannabis was contained in the oil used in the time of Jesus and he would be anointed with it.

 

[thistle]

Erm…there’s more evidence that the oils Jesus was anointed with contained cannabis then for Jesus repeatedly breaking the laws of the universe and performing miracles.

I’m not saying those things didn’t happen, but that there is ample evidence that this did. Your double standard is sort of amusing.

As the article says,

The medical use of cannabis during that time is supported by archaeological records.

Researchers in the United States say the oil used in the early days of the Christian church contained a cannabis extract called kaneh-bosem.

The article does not question the validity of the miracles reported in the Bible but rather examines whether the early Christian Church may have made use of substances with an active medical effect.

So there is evidence beyond a single book that cannabis was contained in the oil used in the time of Jesus and he would be anointed with it.

You should give this to Dan Brown for his next book!!

 

[corvidae]

I got that by, because of who he was, the oil he would have had to be anointed with, contained hash oil. It was one of the ingredients as far as research suggests. They anointed people with oil back then, and especially in his case, and one of the oils that they would have used, has been found to contain the cannabis extract. I’m not saying Jesus was a stoner or anything like that, but that there is a lot of history which is contrary to the stigma it has today.

It’s not that he “had” to use it, exactly, it’s just that part of the, um, rituals/ceremonies he went through involved anointing with that oil. Records and such do show that cannabis extract was in the oil, and the christ would have definitely been anointed with those oils as part of his life and who he was.

Exactly what rituals and ceremonies did Jesus go through where he would be annointed. As far as I know, there were fairly few things the Jews would use anointing with oil for, the two biggest being kingship and priesthood. Christ was never understood by the Jews to be either of these things, and was not annointed into them as far as we can tell.

Christ does mean annointed one, however, itt does not necessarily mean that Jesus was physically annointed by anyone, People of that time would know that to be annointed was to be singled out for something special.

I also think that you are reading too much into this, I mean, you say that Jesus would have to have been annointed with these oils, but that is not the case. It may have been that these oils were used for healing people, as cannabis was used as a medicine (and in some parts of the world still is).

No one is saying that it is impossible for the Jews to have used Marijuana in a medicinal fashion. But the only time we KNOW of Christ being anointed we know it was a mixture of oil and spikenard. So the only thing we know of is that Jesus used spikenard. We also know He was annointed with aloes at the time of His burial.

Jesus was not the High priest of the Jews, and so would not have used the Jewish holy oils in His day to day life. Jesus was not a king (at least on earth) and so would not have been annointed with the Holy oils.

Perhaps a little background on ancient Jewish Customs would be beneficial.

As a side note, Jewish soldiers also covered themselves in oil, I do not know if it contained cannabis or not, but I would guess it was to prepare their muscles, cleanse them so if they were wounded it would not be infected, and it does not hurt to be slippery when your opponent wants to hurt you. Cannabis might have helped, but probably would have hurt the soldier more, (a little hesitation or fuzziness in the head and you could be dead)

A lone Raven

p.s.- I could be wrong on some of the customs, but I am pretty sure they are in line.